Vols arent far off on offense from being a winner

#1
wmcovol

wmcovol

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#1
but I think they are aways off on defense. Im afraid they dont have near enough players on defense with the skill set to make a difference anytime soon. I hope recruiting changes this fast.

In order to get back in the top 4 or 5 in this league, you've got to get better on defense. Other than aTm with Johnnyfootball, none of the top 5 are offensive dominated teams. Alabama, Missouri, LSU and sc are good to real good on defense. uga has fallen cause of their defense. uf, while having a great defense early has been destroyed by injuries. Last yr, they were average on offense, great on defense and 11-1.
 
#2
#2
I agree with you about the O but wish some of the more aggressive back ups would get a real shot to start on the OL.

I think there are at least two factors on D. The more difficult part is determining how much each factors into the poor performance.

There ARE deficiencies in talent on the D. They have some speed but could definitely use more. There is inexperience in some places on D.

However... the defensive coaching is STILL very possibly an issue. While this isn't ideal D roster, it isn't devoid of talent either.

My fear is that what you are seeing isn't just a lack of players with the right skill sets... but possibly an inadequate DC.
 
#3
#3
i would like to see a offensive minded coach calling the plays such as coach at texas tech.
 
#4
#4
Patience, patience, patience.. theres a chance we're gonna be starting FIVE new offensive lineman next year.. we are on the right track.. be happy about that
 
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#6
#6
I think we have some building blocks Brian randolph and cam Sutton are solidifying the secondary cam takes his lumps but imagine when he has true experience...aj leaves more to be desired he should work on his speed during the off season but with the lbs next yr that could be a strength up front obrian gets it done enough and losing mo for the season hurt us think if we had him this yr......on another note is it me or has almost every year since the end of fulmer's career a talented meaningful player gotten injured or kicked off the team
 
#7
#7
sjt18 said:
I agree with you about the O but wish some of the more aggressive back ups would get a real shot to start on the OL.

I think there are at least two factors on D. The more difficult part is determining how much each factors into the poor performance.

There ARE deficiencies in talent on the D. They have some speed but could definitely use more. There is inexperience in some places on D.

However... the defensive coaching is STILL very possibly an issue. While this isn't ideal D roster, it isn't devoid of talent either.

My fear is that what you are seeing isn't just a lack of players with the right skill sets... but possibly an inadequate DC.
Click to expand...

Our guys can't tackle in space and are slow. We don't have the depth to run an effective nickle or dime formation. It's not that it's inadequate DC it's an inadequate roster. Our guys can't come up and close on tackles, D-line is slow and can't pass rush, LB's can't cover flats, they can't contain edges, and we have a CB who stays in the burned unit. All the DC can do is develop a scheme it's up to the players to be athletes and make plays
 
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#8
#8
GBOVOLS said:
Our guys can't tackle in space and are slow. We don't have the depth to run an effective nickle or dime formation. It's not that it's inadequate DC it's an inadequate roster. Our guys can't come up and close on tackles, D-line is slow and can't pass rush, LB's can't cover flats, they can't contain edges, and we have a CB who stays in the burned unit. All the DC can do is develop a scheme it's up to the players to be athletes and make plays
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And the defensive coordinator can't do a single thing with his scheme to attempt to mask some of these player deficiencies you mentioned?

Maybe run some cover two to keep the CB's from getting toasted or cheat the LB and safeties to one side or the other on running plays?

I don't disagree with anything you said but it's up to a coach to put his players in the best possible position to win.

The gang tackling and swarming to the ball we saw earlier in the year has completely gone away the last two weeks because Alabama and Missouri were more physical at the point of attack and they were smart enough to attack the one on one match ups.
 
#9
#9
CTVolsfan14 said:
Patience, patience, patience.. theres a chance we're gonna be starting FIVE new offensive lineman next year.. we are on the right track.. be happy about that
Click to expand...

I want to see A LOT more evidence before buying that conclusion. I feel much better about the O staff right now though than the D staff.
 
#10
#10
GBOVOLS said:
Our guys can't tackle in space and are slow. We don't have the depth to run an effective nickle or dime formation. It's not that it's inadequate DC it's an inadequate roster.
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ORRR... the scheme and coaching do not put guys in position to make plays. Depth is an issue but even the guys with speed and talent are repeating the same mistakes.

I am not buying what you are selling. I am not drawing a conclusion about the DC... but I see ALOT that points to coaching issues as much or more than talent issues.

Our guys can't come up and close on tackles, D-line is slow and can't pass rush, LB's can't cover flats, they can't contain edges, and we have a CB who stays in the burned unit. All the DC can do is develop a scheme it's up to the players to be athletes and make plays
Click to expand...
I am going to state a very simple fact for you. You probably won't accept it... but I am going to state it any way.

Coaches with less talent and less speed have done more to stop better offenses than was done by UT vs MU.


Wilcox in our recent history did more with less. Mizzou's DC is doing more with less. Monte Kiffin did FAR more with less.
 
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#11
#11
sjt18 said:
I agree with you about the O but wish some of the more aggressive back ups would get a real shot to start on the OL.

I think there are at least two factors on D. The more difficult part is determining how much each factors into the poor performance.

There ARE deficiencies in talent on the D. They have some speed but could definitely use more. There is inexperience in some places on D.

However... the defensive coaching is STILL very possibly an issue. While this isn't ideal D roster, it isn't devoid of talent either.

My fear is that what you are seeing isn't just a lack of players with the right skill sets... but possibly an inadequate DC.
Click to expand...

I have had several conversations, with people who I would consider to be not only objective but incredibly good at evaluating, if not predicting, college football. I am not talking about arm-chair types like you see on here, but people who do this sort of thing professionally. Each one has said that Jones could do great things, but it will be in spite of Jancek. One specifically said he was really excited about Jones at UT until he heard Jancek was going to be DC. I wanted to blow those statements off as a lack of talent, or changing systems, but almost to a T the things that these people said to watch for, have come true. I still consider myself leaning towards believing that it is too early to draw those conclusions, but it has been destabilizing to me to see these people's predictions of Oregon, Bama and Mizzou come to fruition.

One final thought: most agreed that the way Butch is recruiting has a high probability of masking any shortcomings. But, and here is the kicker, he would have to recruit to this level every year, and that is unlikely given a time line longer than a few years. The key, they say, was someone with a unique offensive system (like Jones) but that requires an air tight defensive mind capable of out-scheming elite offenses of all styles.
 
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#12
#12
sjt18 said:
However... the defensive coaching is STILL very possibly an issue. While this isn't ideal D roster, it isn't devoid of talent either.

My fear is that what you are seeing isn't just a lack of players with the right skill sets... but possibly an inadequate DC.
Click to expand...

I agree. It's hard to tell right now which is the bigger issue (coaching/personnel), so I'm reserving judgement for the time being. I just really want this staff to work out.
 
#13
#13
I'll be happy to pass judgement on Jancek and Martinez.

They were fired from UGA with much better talent than they are working with now, why should we expect better results with lesser talent on their second go through the SEC?

Even with the poor QB play and underachieving offensive line, the two most glaring problems on this team from a game day performance standpoint has been on defense and particularly the secondary.

It isn't just the last two weeks either. WKY and S. AL both put up nearly 400 yards.
 
#14
#14
JonGrudensAgent said:
The gang tackling and swarming to the ball we saw earlier in the year has completely gone away the last two weeks because Alabama and Missouri were more physical at the point of attack and they were smart enough to attack the one on one match ups.
Click to expand...

The weird thing is that the defense looked very promising coming into this season with the exception of the Oregon blowout. The D did a bang-up job on South Carolina and a decent-to-good one on Georgia.

So what's changed?
 
#15
#15
So the same off that scored 3 points on mizz is not that far off from being a winner... yeah right.. we have been touched the last two weeks because of a terrible off.. if it's not the players than it has to be the coaches game plan attacking def weaknesses..

So which is it... I think we r am avg talented team with avg coaching to this point in the season.. I haven't seen one game where I said wow we really out coached them.. I'm just tired of ojt for coaches at the school I love.. will it change god I hope so.. at least we have great recruiting.
 
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#16
#16
92volalum said:
So the same off that scored 3 points on mizz is not that far off from being a winner... yeah right.. we have been touched the last two weeks because of a terrible off.. if it's not the players than it has to be the coaches game plan attacking def weaknesses..

So which is it... I think we r am avg talented team with avg coaching to this point in the season.. I haven't seen one game where I said wow we really out coached them.. I'm just tired of ojt for coaches at the school I love.. will it change god I hope so.. at least we have great recruiting.
Click to expand...

South Carolina?
 
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#17
#17
sjt18 said:
ORRR... the scheme and coaching do not put guys in position to make plays. Depth is an issue but even the guys with speed and talent are repeating the same mistakes.

I am not buying what you are selling. I am not drawing a conclusion about the DC... but I see ALOT that points to coaching issues as much or more than talent issues.

I am going to state a very simple fact for you. You probably won't accept it... but I am going to state it any way.

Coaches with less talent and less speed have done more to stop better offenses than was done by UT vs MU.


Wilcox in our recent history did more with less. Mizzou's DC is doing more with less. Monte Kiffin did FAR more with less.
Click to expand...

Dude it's not a coaching problem we have been having the same issues year after year with different DC's even in Wilcox's time here we gave up a lot of big plays. You can't expect the DC to always put you in position to make plays that is where your IQ come into play and you have play with instinct and anticipate what's going to happen. None of our players have instinct or speed. It's hard to tackle anyone one they can just run around you and on top of that you take poor angles.

And that Monte Kiffin Defense had Eric Berry who was a play maker and Dan Williams another play maker
 
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#18
#18
I see this completely differently - at this point we still don't know if we have a QB, we are about to lose our entire OL, and we still have drops all over the place at WR

when I look at the defense I see some pieces that you can really build off of for the future - Vereen, Sutton, Brandolph seem to be guys that can be key parts of a really good defense

we add in CM next year and JRM in year 2 i think could be a very good LB

I think Dbates, Kmouhon, Weatherd will all be in the mix next year at LB and along with JRM will be a talent upgrade

I think Dlambert will be as good a DL in this system as any DL we have on the team this year

addition of Payne, Gaulden, TKjr, berry to secondary will be a significant talent/speed upgrade

I find it more likely our D will be nasty next year than our O

jmo
 
#19
#19
Not even through the entire season and some are already done with this staff. Coaches aren't miracle workers. They can't take walk ons and low talent players and make them into shut down corners.

I don't care about his past at UGA. If they had no sec experience you same idiots would be crying we need sec coaches.
 
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#20
#20
K-town Vol Fan said:
Not even through the entire season and some are already done with this staff. Coaches aren't miracle workers. They can't take walk ons and low talent players and make them into shut down corners.

I don't care about his past at UGA. If they had no sec experience you same idiots would be crying we need sec coaches.
Click to expand...

I have watched several games where the coaches have the guys in the exact right spots and they just don't have the ability to make the play

I also have seen a lot of times where there are 5 yards to be had and we run for 2-3 or 15 yds to be had on a QB keeper and we run for 2-3 - i have seen more times than i can count a scheme get a receiver completely wide open, the ball hit them in the hands, and it be dropped

what i am seeing is a football team that just isnt very talented - the 2014 and 2015 class can't get here soon enough

I have not seen a coaching staff incapable of scheming to get guys open or be exposed on defense like what i have seen the past few years at various points
 
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#23
#23
SCvol333 said:
and Georgia - UGA is so much more talented than this team it isnt even funny

just having Amurray vs our QB situation is enough for an impartial observer to say we had no chance in that game
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To be honest, I was more impressed by our coaching in the Georgia game than in the South Carolina game. It seemed like in the Georgia game, really good calls were made down the stretch that gave us a chance to win. In the South Carolina game, we needed alot of luck with that throw-it-up-for-grabs-one-handed-catch in order to pull it out (after giving up the lead and not looking good at all throughout the 2nd half).
 
#24
#24
People now discuss how we can get in the top 4 or 5 in the conference. When CPF was fired all the haters could howl was that we had to be in the sec championship game 4 of 5 years. The further we get from having players raised in his system the lower expectations get. Love this coach, but it is as plain as the writing on the wall. CPF's system was blown up too early and for unreal expectations. Only stupidity replaces Fulmer with unproven coaches like kitten and stooley. UT is looking pretty hillbilly "ignernt", hopefully Butch can turn things around like Bruce did.
 
#25
#25
Right now I'm more worried about the offense. We only mustered a FG against Missouri It's been a long stretch of games since we failed to get a TD. Once he gets players to fit his system, maybe it will be better. For now it is boring and unproductive

The defense has done ok despite it's talent / depth issues. The main problem is they are worn out by the second qtr because the offense cannot stay on the field. They held Mizzou pretty well until it was painfuly obvious that Dobbs and company were not going to find the end zone and then the wheels came off. Going to take improvement on both sides of the ball but bigger strides needed on offense
 
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