Vols arent far off on offense from being a winner

[KingtUT]

A look at our talent ranking on defense per Rivals

6 - **** = moore, coleman, mcneil, smith, miller, johnson
4 - *** = brewer, randolph, sutton, hood
1 - ** = sapp
2 - NA's = mccullers, toney

This list covers the majority of starters and players who get a lot of PT. From this list you can see just over half of our defense is made up of 4 star players. However , I think most will agree that only mcneil and coleman have average or better speed at their respective position. You might add smith to this list.

Of our 3 star players, only Sutton and possibly randolph have adequate speed.

That leaves us with 3 players, hood, mccullers and toney and im pretty sure speed is not in their vocabulary at all.

Bottom line is we have about 4 players that have the needed speed at their respective position to be average or better defenders in the SEC. Yes there is some talent but there is little speed to go along with it.

JMO

 

[oregonvol]

People now discuss how we can get in the top 4 or 5 in the conference. When CPF was fired all the haters could howl was that we had to be in the sec championship game 4 of 5 years. The further we get from having players raised in his system the lower expectations get. Love this coach, but it is as plain as the writing on the wall. CPF's system was blown up too early and for unreal expectations. Only stupidity replaces Fulmer with unproven coaches like kitten and stooley. UT is looking pretty hillbilly "ignernt", hopefully Butch can turn things around like Bruce did.

What's really ignorant is acting like a guy who proved he could no longer compete with other quality coaches in his conference, a guy who had 2 losing seasons in his last 4 years, a guy who had presided over a steady decline in performance of the program over nearly a decade, with no end in sight, was fired prematurely due to "unreal expectations".

 

[KingtUT]

People now discuss how we can get in the top 4 or 5 in the conference. When CPF was fired all the haters could howl was that we had to be in the sec championship game 4 of 5 years. The further we get from having players raised in his system the lower expectations get. Love this coach, but it is as plain as the writing on the wall. CPF's system was blown up too early and for unreal expectations. Only stupidity replaces Fulmer with unproven coaches like kitten and stooley. UT is looking pretty hillbilly "ignernt", hopefully Butch can turn things around like Bruce did.

Just because the proper hire wasnt made after Fulmer was fired doesnt mean it wasnt time for him to be fired.

 

[Orange to the Bay]

I have had several conversations, with people who I would consider to be not only objective but incredibly good at evaluating, if not predicting, college football. I am not talking about arm-chair types like you see on here, but people who do this sort of thing professionally. Each one has said that Jones could do great things, but it will be in spite of Jancek. One specifically said he was really excited about Jones at UT until he heard Jancek was going to be DC. I wanted to blow those statements off as a lack of talent, or changing systems, but almost to a T the things that these people said to watch for, have come true. I still consider myself leaning towards believing that it is too early to draw those conclusions, but it has been destabilizing to me to see these people's predictions of Oregon, Bama and Mizzou come to fruition.

One final thought: most agreed that the way Butch is recruiting has a high probability of masking any shortcomings. But, and here is the kicker, he would have to recruit to this level every year, and that is unlikely given a time line longer than a few years. The key, they say, was someone with a unique offensive system (like Jones) but that requires an air tight defensive mind capable of out-scheming elite offenses of all styles.

OK, so being the Devil's Advocate. If people who have actually played football and aren't "armchairs" (I presume, as you allude to in your msg), do they think that Jones will be smart enough to cut them loose if/when he decides that the D and DB's are not up to snuff or progressing/improving the way they should given appropriate talent and speed, or that the schemes don't seem to be working?

And what do they think of Thig and Stripling?

 

[deaconkane]

People now discuss how we can get in the top 4 or 5 in the conference. When CPF was fired all the haters could howl was that we had to be in the sec championship game 4 of 5 years. The further we get from having players raised in his system the lower expectations get. Love this coach, but it is as plain as the writing on the wall. CPF's system was blown up too early and for unreal expectations. Only stupidity replaces Fulmer with unproven coaches like kitten and stooley. UT is looking pretty hillbilly "ignernt", hopefully Butch can turn things around like Bruce did.

Fulmer lost to these said schools also. His winning percentage was in the 90's He could NEVER outcoach spurrier. richth, miles and saban had his number also. Thats why he lost his job. Love what he did for us, but he has as much blame as anyone for where we are talent wise.

 

[Orange to the Bay]

And as for the Offense, I for one, would really like to see just simple RB handoffs. Handing off to a tailback to run it up the gut is as Tennessee as Orange is Tennessee. I know I won't see it, cause Jones doesn't run that type of offense. Which I begrudgingly accept, as I am really liking all else that Jones is doing thusfar, but I wish the one tradition he would keep is tailback handoffs, and lessen the read option. That is not UT football. Not saying never do it. Just that I don't think EVERY handoff should be a read option-type handoff.

 

[KingtUT]

And as for the Offense, I for one, would really like to see just simple RB handoffs. Handing off to a tailback to run it up the gut is as Tennessee as Orange is Tennessee. I know I won't see it, cause Jones doesn't run that type of offense. Which I begrudgingly accept, as I am really liking all else that Jones is doing thusfar, but I wish the one tradition he would keep is tailback handoffs, and lessen the read option. That is not UT football. Not saying never do it. Just that I don't think EVERY handoff should be a read option-type handoff.

What is so bad about not handing it off when you see the RB is about to get blown up in the backfield?

 

[sjt18]

Dude it's not a coaching problem we have been having the same issues year after year with different DC's even in Wilcox's time here we gave up a lot of big plays.

Dude... Wilcox was working with less and did more.

You can't expect the DC to always put you in position to make plays that is where your IQ come into play and you have play with instinct and anticipate what's going to happen.

Have you ever played? The BEST D's aren't those with a bunch of individuals running around doing their own thing. The best D's are those like Stanford last night. They are not faster than Oregon. But EVERY guy played his responsibility EVERY time. That is COACHING. When you have guys out of position early in their careers or in a season... blame the player. When you are in week 9 and guys aren't playing their responsibilities... you have a coaching issue.

None of our players have instinct or speed. It's hard to tackle anyone one they can just run around you and on top of that you take poor angles.

You... are simply wrong. You are blinding yourself to maintain a belief that it is all just going to work itself out when different players arrive. Bama has a smothering D because they have great players AND great coaching. If either of those components was missing, their D would be nowhere near as good as it is.

I played a long time ago. Even back in the leather helmet days (not really), we had pursuit drills. Do you know why? Because pursuit angles are a coachable skill.

And that Monte Kiffin Defense had Eric Berry who was a play maker and Dan Williams another play maker

And do you happen to remember what he had to work with at LB? He ended up getting guys who would never earn playing time again in their careers to play their lanes... to do THEIR jobs. They weren't fast nor necessarily "instinctive". They were just coached on where to go in response to what the O did. That's what Mizzou does. That's what Stanford does. Frankly, that's why Bama is as successful as they are. Guys play THEIR positions.

 

[sjt18]

BTW, YES. If you want to play "championshp football", the DC should be putting the players in position to be successful EVERY TIME.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

Yep, cause someone has to constantly take the fall for Richt.

Giving up 45 to a Crompton lead Vol team made them easy scapegoats.

 

[photovol]

Vols appear to be way off on offense, defense as well

 

[KingtUT]

BTW, YES. If you want to play "championshp football", the DC should be putting the players in position to be successful EVERY TIME.

Its way to early to make any desicions on these assisstant coaches. Im so sick of coaching changes, how bout we let a coach and the players get used to the same system for a couple years and then we make a desicion on how the coaches have done. As of right now, weve had a game or two where we performed better than expected and weve had a game or two that weve played worse than expected. Lets not forget these coaches have the luxury of putting in their systems against the hardest schedule in the nation. IMO we have a really good set of coaches, if we give them time to do their job I think we are all going to be happy within a few years. Butch Jones is a winner and he will make changes if he doesnt like what he sees. Im not worried.

 

[KingtUT]

Giving up 45 to a Crompton lead Vol team made them easy scapegoats.

Our DC wasnt even UGA's DC. He was co-DC but lets go ahead and blame it all on him anyway. :no:

 

[sjt18]

Its way to early to make any desicions on these assisstant coaches.

I am NOT making a final conclusion. But to deny that they are not getting the best that can be gotten out of the current talent is to deny reality. They HAVE to get their act together or the talent coming in will be squandered.

Im so sick of coaching changes, how bout we let a coach and the players get used to the same system for a couple years and then we make a desicion on how the coaches have done. As of right now, weve had a game or two where we performed better than expected and weve had a game or two that weve played worse than expected. Lets not forget these coaches have the luxury of putting in their systems against the hardest schedule in the nation. IMO we have a really good set of coaches, if we give them time to do their job I think we are all going to be happy within a few years. Butch Jones is a winner and he will make changes if he doesnt like what he sees. Im not worried.

I am worried. I see good things. But I see some warning lights flashing brightly too.

I don't want to go into Jones record again. It isn't as impressive under the surface as on it... but I care most about what he does at UT. The one thing I see in him so far that scares me a little is his reluctance to shake up the OL.

I HOPE he will not be like Fulmer with personal loyalties to poor performing assistants... We will see.

 

[sjt18]

Our DC wasnt even UGA's DC. He was co-DC but lets go ahead and blame it all on him anyway. :no:

All blame? Not a chance. Some blame... that's where I can't get the rose colored glasses folks to even dip their toes in.

 

[KingtUT]

All blame? Not a chance. Some blame... that's where I can't get the rose colored glasses folks to even dip their toes in.

I cant believe its so hard for people to see that we dont have talent. Mccullers is nothing more than a body, sure if they run into him he will tackle 'em but thats about it. Corey Miller seems to hustle but is just plain slow. Jacques Smith hasnt made a play since stepping on campus.

When your best player is a true freshman, you shouldnt need an explanation of why our defense is sparatic.

 

[DiderotsGhost]

Like many, I'm not totally sold on Jancek. That said, Jancek / Martinez were better at UGA than the current defensive staff there. For comparison purposes, here is how UGA performed from a win - loss perspective under Martinez / Jancek vs. their successors:

2005 - 2009: 48 - 17 (.738)
2010 - 2013: 33 - 16 (.673)

Most interesting is that UGA's only losing season in the past decade came the year after Martinez and Jancek were dismissed.

Also keep in mind that coordinators have often been used as scapegoats for coaches on the hot seat. This strategy was most ruthlessly employed by Tommy Tuberville (the anti-Butch Jones in regards to loyalty). So while I'm not sold on Jancek yet, I wouldn't judge him solely from the fact that he was fired at UGA.

 

[terrypedigo]

but I think they are aways off on defense. Im afraid they dont have near enough players on defense with the skill set to make a difference anytime soon. I hope recruiting changes this fast.

In order to get back in the top 4 or 5 in this league, you've got to get better on defense. Other than aTm with Johnnyfootball, none of the top 5 are offensive dominated teams. Alabama, Missouri, LSU and sc are good to real good on defense. uga has fallen cause of their defense. uf, while having a great defense early has been destroyed by injuries. Last yr, they were average on offense, great on defense and 11-1.

Big DTs is where it is plus the rules of the game are changing for safety they say, the D does not have the right to hit anymore they wont 48-41 games, they don't wont 14-10 games 17-14 like good old fashion SEC games the way that it was once played when the name was to hit someone instead of this 2 hand touching.hmy:At Least in Basketball they will let you push one another around, now you got to turn on good old Basketball game just to see some hitting.lol:

 

[NashVOL93]

A look at our talent ranking on defense per Rivals

6 - **** = moore, coleman, mcneil, smith, miller, johnson
4 - *** = brewer, randolph, sutton, hood
1 - ** = sapp
2 - NA's = mccullers, toney

This list covers the majority of starters and players who get a lot of PT. From this list you can see just over half of our defense is made up of 4 star players. However , I think most will agree that only mcneil and coleman have average or better speed at their respective position. You might add smith to this list.

Of our 3 star players, only Sutton and possibly randolph have adequate speed.

That leaves us with 3 players, hood, mccullers and toney and im pretty sure speed is not in their vocabulary at all.

Bottom line is we have about 4 players that have the needed speed at their respective position to be average or better defenders in the SEC. Yes there is some talent but there is little speed to go along with it.

JMO

Coleman gets torched constantly. I'm not sure the speed is all there with him.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

The weird thing is that the defense looked very promising coming into this season with the exception of the Oregon blowout. The D did a bang-up job on South Carolina and a decent-to-good one on Georgia.

So what's changed?

Well lets be honest about the Georgia game, if all of their offense were healthy they beat us pretty easily. That game cannot be used. I have not liked Jancek from the start. I don't really care for Bajankian either.

 

[checkerboards09]

I cant believe its so hard for people to see that we dont have talent. Mccullers is nothing more than a body, sure if they run into him he will tackle 'em but thats about it. Corey Miller seems to hustle but is just plain slow. Jacques Smith hasnt made a play since stepping on campus.

When your best player is a true freshman, you shouldnt need an explanation of why our defense is sparatic.

So what are you gonna say when we have several players going to the NFL again after this year? Is the NFL overrated?

 

[KingtUT]

So what are you gonna say when we have several players going to the NFL again after this year? Is the NFL overrated?

Who are the defensive players on our team that are going to the NFL? Please tell me.

 

[ncvol17]

Who are the defensive players on our team that are going to the NFL? Please tell me.

NFL tickets are expensive but not hard to obtain. I'm sure some of our players will be in the stands watching a few NFL games next season.:hi:

 

[checkerboards09]

Who are the defensive players on our team that are going to the NFL? Please tell me.

So we're talking just defense? Not offense and defense?

 

[NashVOL93]

Well lets be honest about the Georgia game, if all of their offense were healthy they beat us pretty easily. That game cannot be used. I have not liked Jancek from the start. I don't really care for Bajankian either.

Maybe so. I can see where people might have an issue with Jancek and Martinez.

Bajakian on the other hand…

People that complain and moan about this offense crack me up. As if they could have possibly seen enough of the offense to even have anything to complain and moan about. Newsflash: Unless you've watched Cincy's 2011 and 2012 seasons in their entirety, you haven't even seen a third of what the playbook looks like yet. I'm quite sure of that. As with almost every offense ever thought up, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with it. It's an amalgamation of two proven and successful systems: spread-and-shred on the ground and West Coast through the air. But when we can't execute even the most simple of plays, there's not an offense on this planet that would look good. People were so surprised to see the offensive innovation in the 2nd half of the Georgia game, but there was nothing new about it. Players simply started executing their assignments, and what do you know, it worked.

Give the offense some time. Unlike our defense so far, it's proven.