War in Ukraine

#50,503
#50,503
LouderVol said:
You mean like historical claims being terminated? You mean like vested foreign interest being lost? You mean like different allies?

What is a major change when it comes to the current conversation?
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Seems like to their way of thinking it goes something like this:

The Russians imported communism and had a revolution ... somewhere along the line they perverted some other countries and just kidnapped others to form the Soviet "Union" - force has nothing to do with it, of course.

So even though it was primarily Russian run and controlled (with some imported thugs here and there - Stalin from Georgia) they dropped the "Russian" and became Soviets - of course, the rest of the world knew the difference - hence things like Russkies (Dr Strangelove), the "Russians Are Coming", "From Russia With Love", etc. Russians have a way of believing you should just naively accept what they tell you - for your own good.

The Russians Soviets then planted Soviets (apparently currently Russians) throughout the Soviet Empire - pods like in "Invasion of the Body Snatchers". The planted "Soviets" are apparently now fully formed Russians - and natural citizens of non-Russian states. Naturally Russians being the superior beings, this doesn't work with the riff raff like Ukrainians or Georgians, and certainly not people from the 'Stans.

Now you get to the good stuff. Once the onetime not Russian captive states became free with the breakup of the last Russian Soviet empire, these Ukrainian or whatever (not Russian) citizens have suddenly developed a hankering to be Russians ... something like Manchurian Candidates. That means the Russians (no longer Soviets) need to help those Russian (no longer Soviet Ukrainian or whatever) homeboys become good Russians. Of course you can only be a good Russian on Russian soil, so the no longer Soviet Russians naturally need to steal rightfully appropriate other lands so their no longer Soviet or no longer Ukrainian Russians can be Real Russians and not Russians in exile. But the whole mess has nothing to do with Russians because the Soviets sowed Soviets (not Russians) around the empire - ie Russia not at fault.

Or in other words, the Russians invented the Soviet Union, absorbed a lot of non Russians into the Soviet Union, and homogenized the mess. Then to their thinking since Russians are spread all over the former empire, all lands that made up the empire should be Russian since the Russian seeds were planted and grew in all those places.
 
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#50,504
#50,504
hog88 said:
USSR/Russia has lost or at best ended up in a stalemate in every war 20th century war it has fought against foreign forces. Lost 1905 to the Japanese, got spanked bad. Was losing to the Germans in WWI until the quit, Losing WWII until we bailed them out. They’ve been good at crushing internal rebellions but pretty piss poor outside of that.
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The winter war in '39 against Finland didn't work out too well for the Russians either. In 3 months they suffered around 350,000 casualties compared to Finland's 70,000. The Ruskies just aren't good on the battlefield.
 
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#50,505
#50,505
norrislakevol said:
The winter war in '39 against Finland didn't work out too well for the Russians either. In 3 months they suffered around 350,000 casualties compared to Finland's 70,000. The Ruskies just aren't good on the battlefield.
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They throw bodies at the problem and hope for the best.
 
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#50,510
#50,510
This is a very rational, well measured approach to this Ukraine-Russia situation coming from Anne Applebaum. She is the most rational person commentating on this entire situation.

Fear of Nuclear War Has Warped the West’s Ukraine Strategy (Leaders shouldn’t give in to Putin’s nuclear rhetoric.) - The Atlantic

I can’t prove this to be true, of course, because no one can. We can’t consult a rule book, published military doctrine, or any other document to explain these issues, because Russia has no institutions governing the use of nuclear weapons, indeed no institutions that can check or balance the president. In a one-man dictatorship, the decision whether to use nuclear weapons lies in that one man’s head. Because no one else lives inside that head, no one else knows what would really provoke him or where his red lines really are.

The only guide we have is the past, and given Putin’s behavior in the past, we should at least consider the possibility that by arming Ukraine, by supporting Ukraine, we will also prevent the use of nuclear weapons in Ukraine. Notwithstanding his bravado about martyrdom, if Putin genuinely believes that a Russian nuclear attack will carry “catastrophic consequences,” to use National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan’s language, then he is much less likely to carry one out. The less fear we show, the more Putin himself will be afraid.

So let's call Putin's bluff. We don't know if it will work or not, but let's try it out (assuming of course that Putin is the one making nuclear threats and not the likes of geniuses like Liz Truss and Joe Biden.
 
#50,511
#50,511
KB5252 said:
Congrats on finding an example of how to spread propoganda........ What is this supposed to tell us?
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That you should be very, very suspicious about the information you are getting from the mainstream media. I think after what we have seen over the last 2 years, this should be pretty obvious.
 
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#50,512
#50,512
Thought this was kinda funny when I read it today; talk about Russian situational awareness - imagine a 707 sneaking up on you when you are trolling around US airspace. The radar tracking sites sometimes show RC-135 Rivet Joints and Cobra Balls taking a look near Ukraine and the Black Sea, and around the Taiwan area. It's also pretty common to spot one or two much smaller Army Beech RC-12Xs Guardrails over Lithuania - generally callsigns YANK01 and YANK02.

The story of the RC-135 Spy Plane that was diverted to intercept a Soviet Tu-95 bomber because no fighters were on alert. The RC-135 was renamed FC-135. - The Aviation Geek Club
 
#50,514
#50,514
Velo Vol said:
American news about the Vietnam War, unlike the Soviet news of the '70s, was not always accurate.
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Back then we didn't think the media were liars, though ... that came a few years later when we discovered that even "honest" Uncle Walter had been manipulating the facts. Back then everybody believed the military lied to the press; they did, but that really turned out to be a good ole dem administration manipulating the statistics as usual - lying to themselves as much as anybody - again no surprise at that.
 
#50,515
#50,515
Rasputin_Vol said:
That you should be very, very suspicious about the information you are getting from the mainstream media. I think after what we have seen over the last 2 years, this should be pretty obvious.
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Last 2 years? It's more like the last 20 years it seems. Plus it should also be a clue when they are trying to shut down and censor other news outlets and independent journalists.
 
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#50,516
#50,516
NorthDallas40 said:
Oh let’s pull everyone out of Syria right now. Today. I mean it’s no fun anymore since we waxed those 200 Wagner mercs back in what 2018? So might as well withdraw. And likewise Russia can pull all their troops back like they signed an agreement to do in 2018 (edit: it was 2016). And Russia always honors their signed agreements amirite? 🤡
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Russia was invited to come to Syria by the actual government of Syria. The U.S. was not. Therefore according to your logic the U.S. is an occupying force in Syria.
 
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#50,517
DonjoVol said:
Russia was invited to come to Syria by the actual government of Syria. The U.S. was not. Therefore according to your logic the U.S. is an occupying force in Syria.
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By extension, you just solved the issue here. Ukraine invited assistance from a number of countries. Russia was not invited. By your logic, Russia packs up and goes home, or you at least acknowledge Russia is an unwanted, illegal, occupying force ... and certainly in the wrong.
 
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#50,519
#50,519
LouderVol said:
I feel like you quoted the wrong post of mine.

I have said before and will continue to say it, I want us out of Syria or any other contested region. I also want Russia out of contested regions. It doesnt matter who invites either of us. And it's worse if we arent invited at all. This just leads to escalation and the war spreading.

I dont care if we have bases or deployments of troops in peaceful nations after we were invited. Last week I provided a list of Russian deployments outside their sphere that dont bother me. This doesnt lead to hot conflicts.

I am pointing out how you have the exact argument you say I am making. Even though I have made it clear it's not my argument. You keep saying it's ok if Russia is invited, but it's not ok if the US is invited. That is an inconsistent argument. I keep saying it's only ok if we are invited during peace, otherwise I want the US and Russia OUT!
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I thought invitations were okay? Remember it's invasions that you guys and gals are upset with. Russia didn't invade Transnistria, Abkhazia or South Ossetia. I've also provided the correct historical context behind each of their independence movements. You and others are not okay with their independence movements or them determining their own fate because you've been told so. However you have apparently no issue with independence movements that match a pro western narrative. It's hypocritical and and at this point you and the rest of your crew here aren't denying the hypocrisy.

And I never said it wasn't okay if the U.S. was invited. You are once again putting words into my mouth. Just like I've never came out and supported Russia or Ukraine. However if one doesn't just go right along 100% with the pro Ukraine, anti Russia narrative then they are automatically labeled a "Pootin Stooge" or whatever name and insults the usual trolls in here come up with.
 
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#50,521
#50,521
DonjoVol said:
Lol. Stop with the pearl clutching Proctor. You never even heard of Transnistria until it was brought up in this thread.
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No pearl clutching there Curly. In fact it’s pretty obvious you have no idea what it means in how you used it. Makes since as you have no idea what a non sequitur is either while you arrive at them multiple times daily.

Pull them both out right now. Your whataboutism idiocy doesn’t work when both cases get thrown back in your stooge faces. 🤡
 
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#50,522
#50,522
NorthDallas40 said:
No pearl clutching there Curly. In fact it’s pretty obvious you have no idea what it means in how you used it. Makes since as you have no idea what a non sequitur is either while you arrive at them multiple times daily.

Pull them both out right now. Your whataboutism idiocy doesn’t work when both cases get thrown back in your stooge faces. 🤡
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Lol. Has Transnistria asked Russia to leave? If not then I take it Russia is there by invitation. Remember you have no problem with an invitation. Only invasions.
 
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#50,525
#50,525
DonjoVol said:
Lol. Has Transnistria asked Russia to leave? If not then I take it Russia is there by invitation. Remember you have no problem with an invitation. Only invasions.
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lol back clueless stooge it’s isht up to Transnistria it’s up to the lawfully elected government of Moldova as it’s their sovereign territory. Damn your troll game sucks 🤡
 
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