War in Ukraine

[Rickyvol77]

“We are here to help” - Rasputin

 

[Gandalf]

The Monkey & the Cat

Once upon a time a Cat and a Monkey lived as pets in the same house. They were great friends and were constantly in all sorts of mischief together. What they seemed to think of more than anything else was to get something to eat, and it did not matter much to them how they got it.

One day they were sitting by the fire, watching some chestnuts roasting on the hearth. How to get them was the question.

"I would gladly get them," said the cunning Monkey, "but you are much more skillful at such things than I am. Pull them out and I'll divide them between us."

Pussy stretched out her paw very carefully, pushed aside some of the cinders, and drew back her paw very quickly. Then she tried it again, this time pulling a chestnut half out of the fire. A third time and she drew out the chestnut. This performance she went through several times, each time singeing her paw severely. As fast as she pulled the chestnuts out of the fire, the Monkey ate them up.

Now the master came in, and away scampered the rascals, Mistress Cat with a burnt paw and no chestnuts. From that time on, they say, she contented herself with mice and rats and had little to do with Sir Monkey.

The flatterer seeks some benefit at your expense.​

~Aesop Fables

 

[ButchPlz]

Ukraine can't surrender.

Comparing economic sanctions to targeting and killing civilians is ludicrous. It's not hypocritical to support sanctions against Russia, the citizens of Russia have allowed Putin and his merry band of gangsters to remain in power so they bear responsibility.

Great, then I expect each and every one of you to post here approving of the economic crippling of the United States since we bear the responsibility for allowing Biden into office.

 

[allvol123]

Because I'm sitting here watching washed up old clowns like yourself and the majority of our government crap away any financial stability that will be present for myself or my future children over blown-up pandemics, wars we don't belong in in any way, spending on idiocy, hyped-up news media ********, and wholesale acceptance of ****ing tweets minutes after talking about how twitter is irrelevant for news. You wonder why I'm mad? Because I am watching hypocrites, again like yourself, pretend to blast the government and the corporatocracy then willingly turn around, suck up their propaganda, and favor involvement in a conflict that has nothing to do with the United States. And then you come in here and give the old "RuSsIaNs CaN't EaT mCdOnAlD's" argument, which you know is an outright lie.

Come on.

Yea, I really ate up the pandemic. I literally changed nothing about my habits for it. Try again.

I don’t use Twitter, Facebook, Tik Tok, or watch TV news. I read VN and the WSJ. So not sure what I am eating up from the media.

Don’t feel like a hypocrite in any manner. Private companies are free to do business or not do business wherever they choose.

I’ll happily wait for your solutions.

 

[NCFisher]

I don't know why you're not taking the neo-nazi problem in Ukraine seriously. Yes, there are only 900 members in Azov BN; but there are literally dozens of these armed militias. There are also major political parties. I guess now they're rebranded as ultra-nationalists, but we didn't have a problem calling them out as neo-nazis before.

Commentary: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem
Azov fighters are Ukraine's greatest weapon and may be its greatest threat
Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine
Is the US backing neo-Nazis in Ukraine?
How Many Neo-Nazis Is the U.S. Backing in Ukraine?
The reality of neo-Nazis in Ukraine is far from Kremlin propaganda
Svoboda: The rise of Ukraine's ultra-nationalists
Ukraine's threat from within

I particularly chuckled at this section from the last article

"One of Svoboda's leading members, sports journalist Ihor Miroshnychenko, his ponytail flying behind him, then charged the podium to prevent a deputy speaking in Russian. (Svoboda believes that only Ukrainian should be used in all official bodies.)

Outside, Svoboda deputies used a chainsaw to cut down an iron fence erected last year to prevent crowds from storming the parliament building. This they justified in the name of popular democracy.
"No other democratic country has fenced-off the national parliament," said Svoboda's Ruslan Koshulinskiy, the deputy speaker of parliament. "People have chosen these lawmakers and should have a right to have access to them."

Several reasons:
Primarily because they aren't Nazis, neo or otherwise. There may be groups that are antisemitic - I'd be shocked if there weren't as Europe is the original hotbed of antisem - Azov and such are not those groups. They are nationalists and you should stop trying to shoe-horn them into the role of Nazi.

Secondly, every Western country has an Aryan-based problem; in a number of EU nations these parties have a place at those nation's parliament table - Svoboda with less than 1% support does not - so why the fascination with Ukraine, a country at war with aggressor Russia since 2014? Because their inadequate military finds them useful against Russia? I have to ask is this a pro-Russia bias, anti-Ukraine bias, or lack of information?

The terms right-wing, nationalist, ultranationalist and such have been propagandized by the left, autocrats, and enemies of Western society to smear their ideological opponents with 'white supremacist', 'fascist', "Nazi' so the terms no longer a factual basis and really diminishes the actual suffering of actual people under actual fascism or Nazism; instead the terms are now epithets to shut down opposition to their shitey autocratic or Marxofascist agenda. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. It is a purposeful, imposed and coerced illiteracy to dissolve the Western, constitutional republic (or democratic) model.
- Frankly, you come across as part of this problem.

Lastly, Ukraine is what I'd term a second world country; they do not have the luxury of first world economic, social/government, and military stability and not having to worry about Russia invasion. They are traveling a road that every, single, Western nation has walked in the modern era we live in. Let Russia or China attack a Western nation and see how quickly we revert. This is what war and life of non-luxury looks like.

Russia isn't in Ukraine because "Nazis" nor does it pertain to the topic.

 

[hog88]

Great, then I expect each and every one of you to post here approving of the economic crippling of the United States since we bear the responsibility for allowing Biden into office.

We are bearing the burden of Biden's presidency.

Plus the two are not the same.

 

[OrangeTsar]

Looks like Belarus getting ready to step in with a Mussolini style backstab to Putin‘s Hitler act

 

[KB5252]

Color me unworried by the global threat of a Russian military that apparently abandons its functional fighting equipment all over the place mid-invasion. Europe is welcome to, and should be, leading the effort in Ukraine. If France and Germany wish to send soldiers into Ukraine to fight, more power to them. If they want to continue to escalate arms, or enforce a no-fly zone, then more power to them. The US's job is not to lead a regional conflict thousands of miles away, just like it wasn't our job to invade Iraq or provide arms to terrorists in Syria.

It's not that simple. The last thing we want is any of those countries sending troops in.

 

[ButchPlz]

Yea, I really ate up the pandemic. I literally changed nothing about my habits for it. Try again.

I don’t use Twitter, Facebook, Tik Tok, or watch TV news. I read VN and the WSJ. So not sure what I am eating up from the media.

Don’t feel like a hypocrite in any manner. Private companies are free to do business or not do business wherever they choose.

I’ll happily wait for your solutions.

According to @hog88, your generation marked the start of the decline of this country, therefore you too bear responsibility for it. Your solution is to throw money down a toilet in a regional conflict, as if money and arms are free. You'll be dead before the impact of your generation fully comes to bear on my generation. What do you care if you support the creation of a worse world than you inherited?

 

[ButchPlz]

It's not that simple. The last thing we want is any of those countries sending troops in.

It is that simple. I've yet to see a reason why America should be involved other than the "Russia is a threat to the west". Russia is clearly not a threat to the United States. Who is it a threat to? Who should be dealing with it first? America leaping in in any form is foolish. And unfortunately, we're already deploying American soldiers to the region.

 

[OrangeTsar]

I don't know why you're not taking the neo-nazi problem in Ukraine seriously. Yes, there are only 900 members in Azov BN; but there are literally dozens of these armed militias. There are also major political parties. I guess now they're rebranded as ultra-nationalists, but we didn't have a problem calling them out as neo-nazis before.

Commentary: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem
Azov fighters are Ukraine's greatest weapon and may be its greatest threat
Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine
Is the US backing neo-Nazis in Ukraine?
How Many Neo-Nazis Is the U.S. Backing in Ukraine?
The reality of neo-Nazis in Ukraine is far from Kremlin propaganda
Svoboda: The rise of Ukraine's ultra-nationalists
Ukraine's threat from within










I particularly chuckled at this section from the last article

"One of Svoboda's leading members, sports journalist Ihor Miroshnychenko, his ponytail flying behind him, then charged the podium to prevent a deputy speaking in Russian. (Svoboda believes that only Ukrainian should be used in all official bodies.)

Outside, Svoboda deputies used a chainsaw to cut down an iron fence erected last year to prevent crowds from storming the parliament building. This they justified in the name of popular democracy.
"No other democratic country has fenced-off the national parliament," said Svoboda's Ruslan Koshulinskiy, the deputy speaker of parliament. "People have chosen these lawmakers and should have a right to have access to them."

I bet you lie awake at night worrying about Illinois Nazis as well, right?

 

[UT_VOLS13]

Live updates: Radiation monitors near Chernobyl not working

 

[luthervol]

Great, then I expect each and every one of you to post here approving of the economic crippling of the United States since we bear the responsibility for allowing Biden into office.

We survived allowing Trump into office. Biden will be a cake walk.

 

[allvol123]

According to @hog88, your generation marked the start of the decline of this country, therefore you too bear responsibility for it. Your solution is to throw money down a toilet in a regional conflict, as if money and arms are free. You'll be dead before the impact of your generation fully comes to bear on my generation. What do you care if you support the creation of a worse world than you inherited?

What is my generation?

I’ve never stated an outright opinion on what we should do, that said, any dollars we spend on Ukraine is irrelevant in the grand scheme of our fiscal irresponsibility. That horse was out of the barn long ago.

I have teenage kids, I care.

 

[OrangeTsar]

How else are we supposed to put pressure on the Russian government?

Encourage the Germans to rearm. And fast!

 

[ButchPlz]

What is my generation?

I’ve never stated an outright opinion on what we should do, that said, any dollars we spend on Ukraine is irrelevant in the grand scheme of our fiscal irresponsibility. That horse was out of the barn long ago.

I have teenage kids, I care.

This statement alone proves your last sentence is absolute ********. Any dollars we spend fruitlessly are always relevant, because unless you start curtailing somewhere (and idiotic American military involvement and presence in nearly a hundred countries around the world is a nice place to start) you won't curtail anywhere. You are selling your kids down the **** river.

 

[KB5252]

It is that simple. I've yet to see a reason why America should be involved other than the "Russia is a threat to the west". Russia is clearly not a threat to the United States. Who is it a threat to? Who should be dealing with it first? America leaping in in any form is foolish. And unfortunately, we're already deploying American soldiers to the region.

We are involved in Europe because of history. The last time we took that approach it didn't go so well and we ended up having to be involved anyway. We are involved in NATO as a deterrent. If America can't be trusted to abide by obligations then the dollar is no longer propped up and we lose the comfy way of life we've grown accustomed to.

My point is the world is intertwined. It's but as simple as America not being involved. As for tried being involved in but sure anywhere here is advocating for it. NATO, of which we are a member, is beefing up it's defenses as a deterrent in light of Russia military aggression.

 

[KB5252]

We survived allowing Trump into office. Biden will be a cake walk.

Hate to break it to you but a lot of this is happening right now, at this moment, because Biden is largely considered weak and inneffective both domestically and abroad.

 

[ButchPlz]

We are involved in Europe because of history. The last time we took that approach it didn't go so well and we ended up having to be involved anyway. We are involved in NATO as a deterrent. If America can't be trusted to abide by obligations then the dollar is no longer propped up and we lose the comfy way of life we've grown accustomed to.

My point is the world is intertwined. It's but as simple as America not being involved. As for tried being involved in but sure anywhere here is advocating for it. NATO, of which we are a member, is beefing up it's defenses as a deterrent in light of Russia military aggression.

And who is eating the bulk of the cost of this "beefing up"? At some point Europe has to do its part, and if they won't do it in a conflict situation maybe they deserve their own fall. American taxpayers are the victims here and that's inarguable.

America has abided its obligations more than its fair share, and we're already seeing the initial ripples of the collapse of the petrodollar. It was not destined to last forever. I also believe that the US should itself learn to be more self-reliant rather than put all its eggs in a couple of risky baskets.

 

[allvol123]

This statement alone proves your last sentence is absolute ********. Any dollars we spend fruitlessly are always relevant, because unless you start curtailing somewhere (and idiotic American military involvement and presence in nearly a hundred countries around the world is a nice place to start) you won't curtail anywhere. You are selling your kids down the **** river.

it is irrelevant because it is going to be spent. If not this, then some other irresponsible way.

It proves I can see. I’m not selling anything. I can’t control these people. You being angry doesn’t accomplish anything more than me being calm.

 

[hog88]

According to @hog88, your generation marked the start of the decline of this country, therefore you too bear responsibility for it. Your solution is to throw money down a toilet in a regional conflict, as if money and arms are free. You'll be dead before the impact of your generation fully comes to bear on my generation. What do you care if you support the creation of a worse world than you inherited?

You have really gone off the deep end.

 

[landscapingvol]

This is child like naivety.

As opposed to adult onset insanity? I will gladly frolic in the forests of gumdrops and candy cane trees rather than try to pretend Russia hasn't had issues dating back with Ukraine over the centuries and all this is is Russia exorcising its past demons associated with Kiev not some existential threat to its sovereignty.

 

[landscapingvol]

I bet you lie awake at night worrying about Illinois Nazis as well, right?

I would be willing to bet that there are 10x as many living in the US as compared to Ukraine. I would also be willing to bet that there definition of Nazi is nothing like the ones surrounding Hitler more like the term thrown around here by the Left.

 

[DonjoVol]

I severely underestimated how much influence John Bolton, John McCain and George W Bush had on many Americans over the years.

 

[Velo Vol]