War in Ukraine

[NorthDallas40]

Or devil's advocate: they're attacking again in a desperate push to cut off Western arms because the weapons are turning the tide in the east and south.

The bill appears to have come due on propping Lukashenko for so long. If he actually joins this fiasco actively then that will be regime change in Russia and Belarus once this is all over.

 

[NorthDallas40]

I would really really hate it if some dang surveillance drone over the Black Sea is the cause of WW3.

Manned aircraft. Bunch of people on board a Rivet Joint.

 

[tvolsfan]

I'm also glad the French came to the aid of a struggling nation that no one expected to fight and win a war against a larger, more powerful country...

Agreed, but to be fair, that ended up being a disaster for them in the long run.

 

[hog88]

Agreed, but to be fair, that ended up being a disaster for them in the long run.

Yes it most certainly did. It effectively ended their place as world power.

 

[KB5252]

It's the slaughter of human beings by govt. It's murder and they have little choice.

I don't mind if it's an opposing military force on the field between combatants. This drone strike footage was disturbing, even more disturbing that they kept at it after they were incapacitated.

Easy for me to be disturbed from thousands of miles away in a safe place unaffected by this war though.

That being said even if you have been through and seen unspeakable horrors you must retain some humanity. Repeatedly releasing those grenades like that I can't help but feel they lost a little humanity with each push of the button.

 

[MontyPython]

Expansion. If Russia was putting missiles on the Mexican border we would do the same. It's a purposeful provocation

What "expansion" by Ukraine occurred prior to the February, 2022 invasion by Russia?

What "missiles" did Ukraine have that provoked Russia to invading it?

 

[KB5252]

Russia does claim part of their stated goals is de-nazification. That isn't propaganda. While Ukraine does have a neo-Nazi problem, and they do turn a blind eye to it, it's not like 50% of the Country are part of this group but the group is quite large and they have integrated into Ukraine's armed forces. None of that is propaganda.

And Russia has those same Nazi issues within it's ranks. It's pretty well documented. Getting rid of Nazi elements in Ukraine was just an easily sold pretext to war...... Nothing more.

 

[MontyPython]

Today:

Because trying to retake Kherson is going to come at a HUGE price. So, whether they retake it or not, they will deplete themselves right as 300k Russians hit the battlefield. What do you think happens next?

A couple months ago:

Kharkiv, try and stay on topic. Why do you keep dodging? This is your chance to boast those gains, bro. Also, while you are trying to polish that turd how are the much hyped Ukrainian counter offensives going near Kherson?

At least @volgr is consistent in his drumbeat.

A trip down memory lane...

Russia is winning but the West is crossing lines I never thought they would. Irrational and irresponsible. The only thing keeping this powder keg from blowing right now, is Putin and I dont know how much longer he can stay restrained. I no longer have a good feel for how this ends.

Ruble continues to remain strong and inflation continues to decline in Russia.

Russia continues winning both the physical and economic war. Par for the course these days for the crumbling American Empire.

The reality that Russia is winning both the physical war and the economic war, as I said they would? The reality that NATO is having a hard time finding friends, as I said they would? What losses would I disappear from?

Not surprised you live in an alternate reality. Russia is winning and will win, unless NATO gets involved. Accept it.

Doesn't matter at this point. Russia is winning, will win and the only remaining unknown at this point is how many extra casualties are worth the West's pride? Unless NATO gets involved militarily, which looks very unlikely at this point.

 

[MontyPython]

Can they even retreat? I though Ukraine blew up the bridges out of town.

Yeah, they still have ferries working. But carting the heavy equipment (e.g. tanks) would be difficult.

The Russians have actually constructed another pontoon bridge *under* the existing (disabled) bridge in downtown Kherson. Odds are either Ukraine can't hit it or they're waiting for the Russians to try to cross it. In either case, there will be some fireworks shortly.

 

[MontyPython]

Forgive us if we don't give much credibility to the russian commands hot takes on how things are going to play out poorly for Ukraine.

Give me one motivated, battle tested well-armed soldier with everything to lose against a dozen terrified guys who were flipping burgers, serving coffee and playing X-box a week ago whose only goal in life is to have the most adidas track suits and swill the most rot gut vodka.

Heh. Exactly.

Things are so rosy in Kherson according to the Russian General that they have declared martial law, ordered all civilians to abandon the city west of the river, and have publicly stated that the situation is "very, very difficult".

Ukrainian troops reportedly outnumber Russians by a 4:1 ratio in Kherson.

When the Russians surrender the city, @volgr will blame Ukrainian Nazi witchcraft.

#WINNING

 

[FLVOL_79]

Or devil's advocate: they're attacking again in a desperate push to cut off Western arms because the weapons are turning the tide in the east and south.

Pure desperation. Russias entire war has been a sh!tshow comedy of horrendous errors.

 

[FLVOL_79]

Heh. Exactly.

Things are so rosy in Kherson according to the Russian General that they have declared martial law, ordered all civilians to abandon the city west of the river, and have publicly stated that the situation is "very, very difficult".

When the Russians surrender the city, @volgr will blame Ukrainian Nazi witchcraft.

Another strategic retreat in a long list of Russian retreats in their failed war I'm sure..

 

[volgr]

Today:



A couple months ago:



At least @volgr is consistent in his drumbeat.

A trip down memory lane...

Russia is winning, don't know why you are highlighting my being right, but thank you. I have given Ukraine credit for their Kharkiv/Izyum gains. I was also spot on, so far, with them wasting men with Kherson counters. That has been an absolute blood bath for Ukraine.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Yeah, they still have ferries working. But carting the heavy equipment (e.g. tanks) would be difficult.

The Russians have actually constructed another pontoon bridge *under* the existing (disabled) bridge in downtown Kherson. Odds are either Ukraine can't hit it or they're waiting for the Russians to try to cross it. In either case, there will be some fireworks shortly.

The equipment is worth more than the conscripts to Russia at this point. But if the conscripts realize that and take over the ferries then it’s gonna be a really disorderly retrea… er… attack to the rear.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Russia is still winning. I have given Ukraine credit for their Kharkiv/Izyum gains. I was also spot on, so far, with them wasting men with Kherson counters. That has been an absolute blood bath for Ukraine.

Do you have any actual links to this “blood bath” other than “it’s simply too horrible to show” Larry? Because I can’t find any reportings of a “blood bath” anywhere.

 

[volgr]

Heh. Exactly.

Things are so rosy in Kherson according to the Russian General that they have declared martial law, ordered all civilians to abandon the city west of the river

Why is that a bad thing for Russia? They've turned Kherson into a turkey shoot. Let's see if Ukraine continues to be so callous with their men and throw them in.

 

[Velo Vol]

Another strategic retreat in a long list of Russian retreats in their failed war I'm sure..

*reorganiztion

 

[NorthDallas40]

Why is that a bad thing for Russia? They've turned Kherson into a turkey shoot. Let's see if Ukraine continues to be so callous with their men and throw them in.

So again… links to actual reporting with verification of losses in Kherson, Larry?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The Russians are planning to blow up the Kakhovk Power Plant

"Russian forces are also setting information conditions to conduct a false-flag attack on the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant (HPP). The Russian military may believe that breaching the dam could cover their retreat from the right bank of the Dnipro River and prevent or delay Ukrainian advances across the river. Surovikin claimed on October 18 that he has received information that Kyiv intends to strike the dam at the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant (HPP), which he alleged would cause destructive flooding in Kherson Oblast.[3] Saldo echoed this claim and warned that Ukrainian forces intend to strike dams upstream of Kherson City.[4] Russian authorities likely intend these warnings about a purported Ukrainian strike on the Kakhovka HPP to set information conditions for Russian forces to damage the dam and blame Ukraine for the subsequent damage and loss of life, all while using the resulting floods to cover their own retreat further south into Kherson Oblast."
Institute for the Study of War

WOW...This is projecting. It is the Ukrainians that are actually trying to attack that hydroelectric plant.

And the explanation given makes zero sense. Cover a retreat from the right bank? So they would blow up a damn and flood the area, which would in turn make retreating to the left bank that much more difficult?

Right bank = west side, left bank = east side.

So if they cross to the west/right bank, they are going to retreat to a flooded Dneiper and go to the east/left bank?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The Russians are planning to blow up the Kakhovk Power Plant

"Russian forces are also setting information conditions to conduct a false-flag attack on the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant (HPP). The Russian military may believe that breaching the dam could cover their retreat from the right bank of the Dnipro River and prevent or delay Ukrainian advances across the river. Surovikin claimed on October 18 that he has received information that Kyiv intends to strike the dam at the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant (HPP), which he alleged would cause destructive flooding in Kherson Oblast.[3] Saldo echoed this claim and warned that Ukrainian forces intend to strike dams upstream of Kherson City.[4] Russian authorities likely intend these warnings about a purported Ukrainian strike on the Kakhovka HPP to set information conditions for Russian forces to damage the dam and blame Ukraine for the subsequent damage and loss of life, all while using the resulting floods to cover their own retreat further south into Kherson Oblast."
Institute for the Study of War

Oh, Institute for the Study of War posted this? No wonder I could smell the BS.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The “ceasefire” Russia was always going to back out of because they never had any intention of peace at the time. Keep in mind, they are the ones who trashed the deal.

The only reason they have been discussing a ceasefire recently is because they know they’re struggling and want sanctions lifted so they can re-group and try again.

That is 100% false. Boris Johnson flew to Kyiv and told them to scrap the deal.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

That was definitely Putin’s original goal. He quite transparently considers Ukraine to be Russian territory and has repeatedly questioned Ukraine’s right to statehood.

For 8 years, Putin had hoped that Minsk would be implemented. All it would have required was the recognition of Crimea as Russian territory, Donbas would still have been autonomous regions in Ukraine, and that Ukraine would remain neutral and not join NATO.

8 years he tried for diplomacy.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

False propaganda like the Russian claims they're fighting nazis?

Bandera followers. Is that better?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

But it isn’t. Russia had no real security concerns in Ukraine. They were just saying that. Ukraine was nowhere near being allowed into NATO. But they insisted on their independence and freedom to deal with the west economically. That, or course, is what is “hostile” to Russia.

The last part is just more useless whataboutism. If the US was currently perpetrating ethnic cleansing, I would be furious about that as well.

Obama's State Department starting a coup in 2013 and destabilizing the govt on its border and then spending 8 years building up a NATO trained and equipped army is certainly threatening.

 

[USF grad in TN]

WOW...This is projecting. It is the Ukrainians that are actually trying to attack that hydroelectric plant.

And the explanation given makes zero sense. Cover a retreat from the right bank? So they would blow up a damn and flood the area, which would in turn make retreating to the left bank that much more difficult?

Right bank = west side, left bank = east side.

So if they cross to the west/right bank, they are going to retreat to a flooded Dneiper and go to the east/left bank?

The speculation is that Russians would cross the river and then flood it so Ukraine can't follow.