Wars, genocide, reparations, religion, etc (split from recruiting forum)

[bigl3327]

Sorry, you’re right. The white devil is a liar. It’s their fault the natives were illiterate and didn’t record their own history.

History is and has always been written by those who were victorious. There were atrocities committed by every nation that conquered another to obtain their land and resources. I don't know where the "white devil" thing is coming from. I also don't know why we can't be honest and accept the good and the bad of historical data. Last I checked, none of our asses took part in any of it.

 

[bigl3327]

Sorry, you’re right. The white devil is a liar. It’s their fault the natives were illiterate and didn’t record their own history.

It's also funny that you would view the "natives" that way, since those illiterate savages taught the early settlers how to grow crops and survive on this land.

 

[Christian Lowe]

History is and has always been written by those who were victorious. There were atrocities committed by every nation that conquered another to obtain their land and resources. I don't know where the "white devil" thing is coming from. I also don't know why we can't be honest and accept the good and the bad of historical data. Last I checked, none of our asses took part in any of it.

Because 1. the modern left does place ancestral blame on those living today. And 2. I don’t apply the morality of today to actions of the past. Literally everyone was evil if you try to look at it that way.

It's also funny that you would view the "natives" that way, since those illiterate savages taught the early settlers how to grow crops and survive on this land.

I don’t see how knowing how to harvest crops applies to reading or writing.

 

[bignewt]

Thank you. Kills me when people say we’re the white devil for taking their land as if they were at all unified and not at war with each other indefinitely before we got here

Again both can be true. Manifest destiny provided a license for depravity.

 

[Christian Lowe]

Again both can be true. Manifest destiny provided a license for depravity.

By todays standards, sure. But territorial conquest was something every nation/kingdom with any ambition took part in back then. I’m not going to flog myself for my nation’s history when they all took part in it.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

By todays standards, sure. But territorial conquest was something every nation/kingdom with any ambition took part in back then. I’m not going to flog myself for my nation’s history when they all took part in it.

Wonder if the Mongols feel bad for wiping out millions when millions actually meant something....hell they wiped out several ANCIENT civilizations and they build statues of Genghis.

 

[MarcoVol]

I could ask the same of you considering only someone as naive as a teenager could say “we live on stolen land and something must be done!” while simultaneously benefiting from the ancestors you hate so much then not see that as grossly hypocritical.

Yeah except wherrreeee exactly did I say that? Would you mind quoting my post?

Or does that post not exist and you are lying?

My 13 yr old niece lies a lot, too. I understand it to be a common characteristic of teens.

 

[Christian Lowe]

Wonder if the Mongols feel bad for wiping out millions when millions actually meant something....hell they wiped out several ANCIENT civilizations and they build statues of Genghis.

Hell, to this day Japan denies the Rape of Nanking ever taking place.

Belgium had King Leopold II and the rubber plantations in the Congo.

African tribes sold their own people to foreigners.

Every powerful country on every continent is guilty of the same sins were told to hate ourselves for… and often these other nations were far worse.

 

[bignewt]

By todays standards, sure. But territorial conquest was something every nation/kingdom with any ambition took part in back then. I’m not going to flog myself for my nation’s history when they all took part in it.

Big difference between flogging yourself for ancestral evil and simply being aware it took place.

 

[Christian Lowe]

Yeah except wherrreeee exactly did I say that? Would you mind quoting my post?

Or does that post not exist and you are lying?

My 13 yr old niece lies a lot, too. I understand it to be a common characteristic of teens.

Being purposefully dense is a common characteristic of them too. Or maybe you just are that dense. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, though.

 

[Christian Lowe]

Big difference between flogging yourself for ancestral evil and simply being aware it took place.

And there’s a difference in being aware it took place here and being aware it was the foreign policy standard of all powerful nations at the time.

 

[bignewt]

Wonder if the Mongols feel bad for wiping out millions when millions actually meant something....hell they wiped out several ANCIENT civilizations and they build statues of Genghis.

The Mongols also allowed the native culture and religion to remain in place...as long as the enemy surrendered.

 

[bignewt]

And there’s a difference in being aware it took place here and being aware it was the foreign policy standard of all powerful nations at the time.

So that makes it ok? It doesn't.

 

[Crookruss]

I sincerely hope that nobody on here is justifying or minimizing the way that the Native American Indian has been mistreated throughout modern history by the US government.

 

[MarcoVol]

Being purposefully dense is a common characteristic of them too. Or maybe you just are that dense. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, though.

Dude what? Just show me where I said the things you claim I said.

Or again, did you just make that sh*t up bc that’s who you are? Lol it’s not like it’s a difficult thing to check. Everyone’s post history is viewable.

 

[MarcoVol]

I sincerely hope that nobody on here is justifying or minimizing the way that the Native American Indian has been mistreated throughout modern history by the US government.

Oh there are certainly some dumbazzes who are

 

[Christian Lowe]

So that makes it ok? It doesn't.

That’s fine, just be sure to call out every country guilty of similar, and often far worse, crimes that don’t make a societal point of hating themselves for their past. We’ll be here a while. History is dark, and at no point has it ever been better than it is right now from a human rights standpoint. You can’t retroactively apply that morality to history, or there are no more heroes from anybody’s past. They’re all racist, misogynistic, bigots.

 

[Glitch]

History is not cut and dry. Like someone stated, it is told by the victors, who generally leave out all the bad things that they did. Taking a non-biased look at history will reveal that every nation that has any sort of government that is run by human beings has committed atrocities at some level or another. That does not mean that I or any one today should feel responsible for those atrocities. I would not blame a 42 year old Japanese man for the atrocities his grandfather may have committed in a POW camp, just like I don't accept any blame for any of my ancestors that may have been involved with the Trail of Tears in the 1800's. We should study history with the bias stripped away as much as possible, because then we will be capable of actually learning the lessons that can come from history. Otherwise, we are just on a merry-go-round and we will repeat the mistakes of the past again and again.

 

[LadyVolette]

History is not cut and dry. Like someone stated, it is told by the victors, who generally leave out all the bad things that they did. Taking a non-biased look at history will reveal that every nation that has any sort of government that is run by human beings has committed atrocities at some level or another. That does not mean that I or any one today should feel responsible for those atrocities. I would not blame a 42 year old Japanese man for the atrocities his grandfather may have committed in a POW camp, just like I don't accept any blame for any of my ancestors that may have been involved with the Trail of Tears in the 1800's. We should study history with the bias stripped away as much as possible, because then we will be capable of actually learning the lessons that can come from history. Otherwise, we are just on a merry-go-round and we will repeat the mistakes of the past again and again.

Well said

 

[LadyVolette]

I sincerely hope that nobody on here is justifying or minimizing the way that the Native American Indian has been mistreated throughout modern history by the US government.

Nah, it was bad.. treatment of Cajuns also really bad up until WW2, I only knew about it because I married into it, they are pretty much over it now though, since no longer treated that way.. pretty pragmatic people

 

[bigl3327]

Because 1. the modern left does place ancestral blame on those living today. And 2. I don’t apply the morality of today to actions of the past. Literally everyone was evil if you try to look at it that way.

I don’t see how knowing how to harvest crops applies to reading or writing.

Once again.... those who were victorious. How would people that were native to this land, be literate in the reading and writing of a completely foreign land? And at what point were they going to be able to widely publish this history?

 

[Christian Lowe]

Once again.... those who were victorious. How would people that were native to this land, be literate in the reading and writing of a completely foreign land? And at what point were they going to be able to widely publish this history?

When did I say English? They didn’t have a system of writing at all.

 

[bignewt]

When did I say English? They didn’t have a system of writing at all.

The Cherokee certainly did.

You are so defensive about not taking ownership for past atrocities. I don't think anyone is asking you to. As Glitch said it is our responsibility to learn and understand our history as it actually happened and make sure the injustice does not repeat itself.

Most of it was done in the name of God or some religion and thats the major problem but thats a whole nother ball of wax.

 

[bigl3327]

When did I say English? They didn’t have a system of writing at all.

They passed their history through stories from generation to generation as many cultures did. They also had their own languages, and while it seemed primitive to a more advanced civilization, they recorded historical events through art.

 

[bignewt]

They passed their history through stories from generation to generation as many cultures did. They also had their own languages, and while it seemed primitive to a more advanced civilization, they recorded historical events through art.

They also created major cities and civilizations in the Mississippi valley far before the Euros arrived. Their weakness to disease was the reason they lost their lands. Not because of any intelligence or fighting superiority.