Was Lane the worst hire in history?

#1
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pimo1

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#1
Please hear me out before those of you few Kiffin Lovers and Fulmer haters out there get riled up. Lane Kiffin in my opinion is the worst hire in UT history and I don 't think that will change for a long time. I have always (until recently) been mostly neutral on the topics of Kiffin and CPF. But a few recent threads have made me do some thinking and I have decided not only is Kiffin the devils agent CPF didn't leave the program nearly as bad off as some might think. I know those are strong statements but here goes.

Most of you have read the article on the worst 10 recruiting classes of the last decade and noticed Kiffin had the number 1 worst class and Fulmer had number 4. What a lot of people don't really think about there is that Kiffin actually affected the ranking of CPF's class by the players he chased away or booted.

Now I will go further. I think there is honestly a reasonable doubt that Pearlgate wouldn't have went to the extent it did had Kiffin not got the AA's hackles up with his antics. He pretty much put a bullseye on the program with all his minor violations and would not shut up. At the time people tolerated it because he was our coach and thus "one of the family" but honestly almost all the publicity he got us was anywhere from totally negative or at best not totally positive. He ain't doing that stupid mess at SC.. but then again he learned his lesson at our expense.

Honestly looking back at everything as a whole instead of case by case CPF left the program in much better shape than people give him credit for. he was always a great recruiter his staff just didn't always develop guys too well around the end. Kiffin left CDD with a hot mess. I shall now end my rant and open the floor.

Seriously guys please refrain from nonobjective responses and if you wish to call me wrong at least have the decency to point out why and back it up with some sort of logic or facts. I know that is a bit much to ask but lets try?
 
#3
#3
I still love CPF. CLK can... you know. If it wasn't for Kiffen we wouldn't have some of the kids we do, but heck. He left it in complete turmoil.
 
#4
#4
I don't know about "history" because I'm not going to pretend to be well-versed in every coaching hire since 1900 but it was awful. Just awful in every aspect. Not one positive.
 
#6
#6
I'm going to put Orgeron ahead of Kiffin simply for his actions before signing day.
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#8
#8
There may have been coaches in UT history that sucked worse than Kiffin, but there has never been a hire with a bigger mis-match of ideals and philosophies between prospective coach and University. Coaching/recruiting, Kiffin probably would have been a mediocre/moderately good coach, but his personality, character, business ethics, and attention to tradition make him one of the worst possible candidates we could have hired at the time. Perhaps the only one worse would have been Butch Davis.
 
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#9
#9
Huh? Neither of the 2 assistants did nearly as much toe totally destroy this program as Kiffin. Yes the Clawfense sucked but it only got a year, given time it might have been ok who knows. Orgeron was Kiffins hire therefore directly attributable to him also his actions were after he was no longer working here soooo.... We will still be feeling the pain of Kiffins hire for the next 2 or 3 years.
 
#10
#10
"Fulmer was an awesome recruiter and Bruce Pearl was really honest. Kiffin just screwed it up for both of them."
 
#12
#12
SamRebel35 said:
There may have been coaches in UT history that sucked worse than Kiffin, but there has never been a hire with a bigger mis-match of ideals and philosophies between prospective coach and University. Coaching/recruiting, Kiffin probably would have been a mediocre/moderately good coach, but his personality, character, business ethics, and attention to tradition make him one of the worst possible candidates we could have hired at the time. Perhaps the only one worse would have been Butch Davis.
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thank you for actually thinking out your reply. Pretty obvious most people didn't even read the post the just replied to the thread title.
 
#13
#13
VKAman said:
"Fulmer was an awesome recruiter and Bruce Pearl was really honest. Kiffin just screwed it up for both of them."
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Way to get it wrong. CPF was always a good recruiter.. that is not even up for argument only the most retarded of his detractors would say that. He brought in classes he just couldn't develop them. The fact he put so many guys in the NFL that underachieved in college but did well in the league shows that.

Secondly I never even liked Pearl and if you check my post history that is obvious. I do however think his firing could have been avoided. It was a moronic situation and a bunch of mistakes were made. Calling the man a bad person because he did what most coaches would have done in that same situation is a tad silly. There was a big microscope on UT at the time and Kiffin was a big reason for it. I merely posit that there is reasonable doubt that without Kiffins big mouth the pearl thing wouldn't have gotten blown out of proportion like it did. I am ok Pearl is gone just really unhappy with how he was let go.

I honestly think that Lane Kiffin is a bad person and should be shoved into a shower with HIV positive lifers while wearing pink flip flops, holding a jar of grape jelly and a tattoo of a tossed salad on his chest.

Hope that clarifies my feelings on each of these coaches for you.
 
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#14
#14
pimo1 said:
Way to get it wrong. CPF was always a good recruiter.. that is not even up for argument only the most retarded of his detractors would say that. He brought in classes he just couldn't develop them. The fact he put so many guys in the NFL that underachieved in college but did well in the league shows that.

Secondly I never even liked Pearl and if you check my post history that is obvious. I do however think his firing could have been avoided. It was a moronic situation and a bunch of mistakes were made. Calling the man a bad person because he did what most coaches would have done in that same situation is a tad silly. There was a big microscope on UT at the time and Kiffin was a big reason for it. I merely posit that there is reasonable doubt that without Kiffins big mouth the pearl thing wouldn't have gotten blown out of proportion like it did. I am ok Pearl is gone just really unhappy with how he was let go.

I honestly think that Lane Kiffin is a bad person and should be shoved into a shower with HIV positive lifers while wearing pink flip flops, holding a jar of grape jelly and a tattoo of a tossed salad on his chest.

Hope that clarifies my feelings on each of these coaches for you.
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Interesting. How?
 
#15
#15
pimo1 said:
Way to get it wrong. CPF was always a good recruiter.. that is not even up for argument only the most retarded of his detractors would say that. He brought in classes he just couldn't develop them. The fact he put so many guys in the NFL that underachieved in college but did well in the league shows that.

Secondly I never even liked Pearl and if you check my post history that is obvious. I do however think his firing could have been avoided. It was a moronic situation and a bunch of mistakes were made. Calling the man a bad person because he did what most coaches would have done in that same situation is a tad silly. There was a big microscope on UT at the time and Kiffin was a big reason for it. I merely posit that there is reasonable doubt that without Kiffins big mouth the pearl thing wouldn't have gotten blown out of proportion like it did. I am ok Pearl is gone just really unhappy with how he was let go.

I honestly think that Lane Kiffin is a bad person and should be shoved into a shower with HIV positive lifers while wearing pink flip flops, holding a jar of grape jelly and a tattoo of a tossed salad on his chest.

Hope that clarifies my feelings on each of these coaches for you.
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Fulmer hasn't been a "great" recruiter for years. The 2007 and 2008 classes were mostly miserable failures; your suggestion that it's only because we're missing out on the considerable talents of Preston Bailey/William Brimfield/Todd Campbell/BJ Coleman/Chris Donald/Donald Langley/Tyler Maples/Ahmad Paige/Darris Sawtelle is asinine.

Pearl's firing could have been avoided if he didn't lie to the NCAA about a picture of his own house.

It's that simple.
 
#16
#16
Im glad you specified in UT HISTORY, because I was about to come in and offer up John L Smith and Bobby Williams.
 
#17
#17
pimo1 said:
Way to get it wrong. CPF was always a good recruiter.. that is not even up for argument only the most retarded of his detractors would say that. He brought in classes he just couldn't develop them. The fact he put so many guys in the NFL that underachieved in college but did well in the league shows that.

Secondly I never even liked Pearl and if you check my post history that is obvious. I do however think his firing could have been avoided. It was a moronic situation and a bunch of mistakes were made. Calling the man a bad person because he did what most coaches would have done in that same situation is a tad silly. There was a big microscope on UT at the time and Kiffin was a big reason for it. I merely posit that there is reasonable doubt that without Kiffins big mouth the pearl thing wouldn't have gotten blown out of proportion like it did. I am ok Pearl is gone just really unhappy with how he was let go.

I honestly think that Lane Kiffin is a bad person and should be shoved into a shower with HIV positive lifers while wearing pink flip flops, holding a jar of grape jelly and a tattoo of a tossed salad on his chest.

Hope that clarifies my feelings on each of these coaches for you.
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Also, I think it's funny how you said "Way to get it wrong" and then repeated pretty much exactly what I said. Minus Pearl being honest, I guess, but you're insinuating that his firing wasn't his own damn fault.
 
#18
#18
Wade Houston has to be one of the worst, if not the worst, in Tennessee history.

I think Larry Coker's hire could go down as one of the worst if Miami gets serious sanctions. And yes I know Miami won the title in 2001.
 
#19
#19
And Kiffin is not the worst hire for UT football. Based on the state of program when they arrived and after they left, Battle is considerably worse.
 
#21
#21
Kiffin isn't even the worst for UT football. Based on the program they inherited and how they left it, Battle is considerably worse.
 
#22
#22
VKAman said:
Fulmer hasn't been a "great" recruiter for years. The 2007 and 2008 classes were mostly miserable failures; your suggestion that it's only because we're missing out on the considerable talents of Preston Bailey/William Brimfield/Todd Campbell/BJ Coleman/Chris Donald/Donald Langley/Tyler Maples/Ahmad Paige/Darris Sawtelle is asinine.

Pearl's firing could have been avoided if he didn't lie to the NCAA about a picture of his own house.

It's that simple.
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If Fulmer was such a bad recruiter explain the sheer number of players UT put in the NFL during his tenure. Also Pearl being fired was not simply because of the lie about the barbeque there was more that contributed later on that probably wouldn't have happened had Kiffins loud mouth not given the AA a big hard on for UT. Realistically Pearl git fired because of the bump rule. that was the last straw. The school was not worried about the situation until that point. They could explain away the "lie about ribs" or get a minor slap on the wrist.

I honestly believe that the AA wouldn't have been on him all hot and heavy if they were not already sniffing around for dirt on Kiffy. Be clear now Pearl ain't innocent and I am glad he is gone. I honestly wanted him to stay another year or so because of the instability in the program. This season the wheels would have started falling out on his bandwagon and he would have been fired halfway through the 2013 season anyway. Him being let go after we had already lost 2 football coaches in 2 years is going to make a few parents say wtf is going on at that place?

None of this addresses the main topic. Lane Kiffin. has there ever been a hire that caused so much damage to an athletic department?
 
#23
#23
VKAman said:
Also, I think it's funny how you said "Way to get it wrong" and then repeated pretty much exactly what I said. Minus Pearl being honest, I guess, but you're insinuating that his firing wasn't his own damn fault.
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no I was not. he did wrong and paid the piper what I insinuated is he never gets asked the question had Kiffin not given the AA a raging hard on for all things UT. I took your comment on Fulmer to be sarcastic and thus my answer there.
 
#24
#24
I agree to a certain extent...any new coach has a style of players they want to recruit...
CPF in his later years recruiting
2006 below top 25
2007 was top 5
2008 below 25

CLK in 2009
2009 was top 15
The problem with the players left behind was not feeling the love...you know if I stay around I will start when I'm a Junior or Senior...CPF way to earn PT
CLK brought in a new era that if you are good you will start no matter what classes you are....aka fall out of players
CDD walks into a recruiting class with 2 weeks to sign players...and CEO cutting the bottom of the box off trying to get players to transfer....
CDD was the new kid in town with little track record at a major school...so he had to work very hard at setting his standards of players then start the recruiting process all over for 2011...but you have to show that you can win so the players will come...simple as that...this job that CDD step into was a major pile of S***....then let’s throw the NCAA snooping around....what kid wants to commit to a UNI with that looming....so here it is today...with CDD projecting at least a 2012 top 10 in recruiting
2010 was top 9
2011 was top 13

BE PATIENT...CDD IS HEADING THE RIGHT DIRECTION
RECRUITED OFFENSE TO PUT BUTTS IN THE SEATS
RECUITING DEFENSE TO WIN GAMES
 
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#25
#25
pimo1 said:
If Fulmer was such a bad recruiter explain the sheer number of players UT put in the NFL during his tenure. Also Pearl being fired was not simply because of the lie about the barbeque there was more that contributed later on that probably wouldn't have happened had Kiffins loud mouth not given the AA a big hard on for UT. Realistically Pearl git fired because of the bump rule. that was the last straw. The school was not worried about the situation until that point. They could explain away the "lie about ribs" or get a minor slap on the wrist.

I honestly believe that the AA wouldn't have been on him all hot and heavy if they were not already sniffing around for dirt on Kiffy. Be clear now Pearl ain't innocent and I am glad he is gone. I honestly wanted him to stay another year or so because of the instability in the program. This season the wheels would have started falling out on his bandwagon and he would have been fired halfway through the 2013 season anyway. Him being let go after we had already lost 2 football coaches in 2 years is going to make a few parents say wtf is going on at that place?

None of this addresses the main topic. Lane Kiffin. has there ever been a hire that caused so much damage to an athletic department?
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The bump wasn't even ruled a violation if I'm not mistaken. He got a 3 year show cause for the lie, and the lie only.
 
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