Was their ever a country called Palestine? Discuss.

#1
BreatheUT

BreatheUT

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#1
This has been debated and history doesn't seem to provide real evidence.

Prior to the formation of Israel which they won the land in a war with Eygpt, the area was controlled other ME nations. Before that it was annexed by France and Britain after the fall of the Ottoman Empire.

Discuss.
 
#2
#2
It doesn't matter. The people had been living there for generations/centuries and some carpetbaggers moved in and pushed them off their land. It doesn't matter if the lines drawn said Egypt, Palestine Ottpman Empire... whatever.
 
#4
#4
Rasputin_Vol said:
It doesn't matter. The people had been living there for generations/centuries and some carpetbaggers moved in and pushed them off their land. It doesn't matter if the lines drawn said Egypt, Palestine Ottpman Empire... whatever.
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When was Palestine created the first time?
 
#5
#5
BreatheUT said:
This has been debated and history doesn't seem to provide real evidence.

Prior to the formation of Israel which they won the land in a war with Eygpt, the area was controlled other ME nations. Before that it was annexed by France and Britain after the fall of the Ottoman Empire.

Discuss.
Click to expand...
Meaning fully sovereign? No. The Romans called that area Palestine, and it was ruled successively by Rome, the Eastern Roman Empire, the Ottoman Empire, then the UK. I think the same applies to Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, etc. in that for almost 2,000 years there was no local sovereignty, they were all part of one empire or another. Today's borders are European creations.
 
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#6
#6
BreatheUT said:
This has been debated and history doesn't seem to provide real evidence.

Prior to the formation of Israel which they won the land in a war with Eygpt, the area was controlled other ME nations. Before that it was annexed by France and Britain after the fall of the Ottoman Empire.

Discuss.
Click to expand...
Yes.
There were a bunch Hebrews living there so they called it Israel and the rest of the Hebrews moved there too.

That’s how they decided what part was to be Israel. It’s where the Hebrews already were. The land won from people who attacked Israel wasn’t given back because it was a staging ground for attacks.

So….when you say Palestinian you need to clarify Arab or Hebrew because they’re both Palestinian

Pretty simple stuff
 
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#7
#7
EasternVol said:
Meaning fully sovereign? No. The Romans called that area Palestine, and it was ruled successively by Rome, the Eastern Roman Empire, the Ottoman Empire, then the UK. I think the same applies to Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, etc. in that for almost 2,000 there was no local sovereignty, they were all part of one empire or another. Today's borders are European creations.
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The Romans renamed it Palestine which translates to Philistine as an insult.
 
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#10
#10
EasternVol said:
Meaning fully sovereign? No. The Romans called that area Palestine, and it was ruled successively by Rome, the Eastern Roman Empire, the Ottoman Empire, then the UK. I think the same applies to Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, etc. in that for almost 2,000 there was no local sovereignty, they were all part of one empire or another. Today's borders are European creations.
Click to expand...

I'm not disputing it but what is your historical reference?
 
#13
#13
Rasputin_Vol said:
It doesn't matter. The people had been living there for generations/centuries and some carpetbaggers moved in and pushed them off their land. It doesn't matter if the lines drawn said Egypt, Palestine Ottpman Empire... whatever.
Click to expand...
and they did it to the Jews. and the previous Jews did it to someone else. and so on and so forth throughout all of history and across all people's.

to the OP no, there has never been a country of Palestine. the various empires that have ruled the area have called it that though.
 
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#14
#14
Rasputin_Vol said:
It doesn't matter. The people had been living there for generations/centuries and some carpetbaggers moved in and pushed them off their land. It doesn't matter if the lines drawn said Egypt, Palestine Ottpman Empire... whatever.
Click to expand...
Who are said "carpetbaggers"?
 
#16
#16
Judaea was a Roman province which incorporated 3 provinces of Judea, Samaria and Idumea Judaea (Roman province) - Wikipedia

In 132 AD, Romans got so pissed after yet another Jewish revolt they destroyed Jerusalem and renamed everything Syria Palestine.

Prior to that, however, each tribe or Israel had some area that constantly fought with surrounding powers after they themselves essentially wiped out the Canaanites who had it first.

Lots of peoples can make a claim to it but borders are a function of a kingdom or nation state. Throughout history, might has made right insofar as where people live.

The Jewish people that are currently there have a better and more ancient claim than any others and most importantly, have the strength and allies to keep it.

If they were able, Syria, Iran, Egypt, Jordan, etc would be happy to disposes the current inhabitants and carve up the land between them, just like they are trying to do with each other.
 
#17
#17
Gandalf said:
Judaea was a Roman province which incorporated 3 provinces of Judea, Samaria and Idumea Judaea (Roman province) - Wikipedia

In 132 AD, Romans got so pissed after yet another Jewish revolt they destroyed Jerusalem and renamed everything Syria Palestine.

Prior to that, however, each tribe or Israel had some area that constantly fought with surrounding powers after they themselves essentially wiped out the Canaanites who had it first.

Lots of peoples can make a claim to it but borders are a function of a kingdom or nation state. Throughout history, might has made right insofar as where people live.

The Jewish people that are currently there have a better and more ancient claim than any others and most importantly, have the strength and allies to keep it.

If they were able, Syria, Iran, Egypt, Jordan, etc would be happy to disposes the current inhabitants and carve up the land between them, just like they are trying to do with each other.
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Need to take it back even further to when KIng David ruled. All current day Israel plus a lot more was called Judaea. Ironically the area that today is the Gaza strip was Philistine. That area has warred for thousand of years for one reason or another. From the seventh century on it has morphed into a religious war which historically is very bloody and I see no end to it.
 
#21
#21
hog88 said:
Have any of you looked into the idea that the actual promised land was in what is now Saudi Arabia?

Was Kingdom of David really in Arabia?

Why Saudi Arabia's Hidden Biblical History Could Be at Risk
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granted its pushing to sell the books, but they don't present many actual facts in the articles.

The linguistic thing I would be interested in reading because the Canaanite language is a semitic language as well, and I don't think there is any dispute about where Canaan was, or how long they have been there. I don't think the presecence of semitic language in that part of Arabia would require it to be the home of the Jews. any naming could have been some "exiled" Jews who lived separately, plenty of diaspora over the centuries. and there are other non-Hebrew semitic languages which could explain the findings.

I would also want to look at the historical empires that ruled over the Jews, even long before Jesus, I can't think of any that made it down the western coast of Arabia except for maybe the Egyptians. The Babylons and Selucids never did.

and if they have artifacts with ancient hebrew on them, hopefully they have been documented. context and what is actually on them will matter a WHOLE lot.

Moses ending up down there as part of their 40 years of bad directions doesn't seem too far fetched. but that hardly means it was the original home of the Jews.
 
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#23
#23
Rasputin_Vol said:

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you don't think Ukraine is a real country and it existed for at least 50 years as an independent nation.

Your Palestine only existed as part of the British Empire after they took control from the Ottomans. The term millet is referenced on those coins "2 mils", that was another Ottoman term given to regions/peoples who were granted degrees of autonomy. It was mostly to non-Muslims, including the Jews. The Arabic and the Hebrew on the coin would have been "original" to the Ottoman period, but the English "Palestine" is very clearly only a result of British control of the area.

The British recognized the autonomy of Palestine on May 14th 1948. The nation of Israel was formed on May 14th 1948. Israel contained all of the land that was Palestine. No other Palestinian government was formed at the time. The native Jews were even noted as "Palestinian Jews" vs the "European Jews" who immigrated there. so its not like the term Palestinian is a religious or ethnic signifier. and it literally never existed as a stand alone nation. it never had its own government. it never printed its own money under its own authority, it had to be granted that right. even the postage that was shown bore british colonial markings.

uca.edu

9. British Palestine (1917-1948)

uca.edu uca.edu

"David Ben-Gurion, the chairman of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, formally declared the State of Israel on May 14, 1948. The British Mandate under the League of Nations (LON) was terminated on May 14, 1948. "

as is typical with you, you rely on skin deep history that goes one ply deeper than the school books you claim to distrust, while never fully understanding the actual history behind your cherry picked agenda.
 
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