What a Crazy, Mixed-Up Final Four

#3
#3
This is why a 68 team single-elimination tournament is the dumbest way to pick a national champion.

If you played the tournament 10 different times, you'd likely get at least 5 different champions and probably 20+ teams would make the Final Four in at least one of those variations. Really wish they'd cut the number of teams and start doing best-of-3 at some point (maybe only Sweet Sixteen onward).
 
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#7
#7
DiderotsGhost said:
This is why a 68 team single-elimination tournament is the dumbest way to pick a national champion.

If you played the tournament 10 different times, you'd likely get at least 5 different champions and probably 20+ teams would make the Final Four in at least one of those variations. Really wish they'd cut the number of teams and start doing best-of-3 at some point (maybe only Sweet Sixteen onward).
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I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. I love the way this is done. There is always some kind of chaos. There is a little luck involved, but it's about who rises to the occasion and plays some good basketball. I hate Tennessee was eliminated but this is just the way it is. I know there would be no possible way to do this with football without cutting a major portion of the season, but you almost certainly would never have a repeat champ.
 
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#8
#8
NO SIR EEE said:
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. I love the way this is done. There is always some kind of chaos. There is a little luck involved, but it's about who rises to the occasion and plays some good basketball. I hate Tennessee was eliminated but this is just the way it is. I know there would be no possible way to do this with football without cutting a major portion of the season, but you almost certainly would never have a repeat champ.
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The question I have is: what's the point of the tournament?

Is it to determine who the best team (national champion) of the year is?

Or is it to reward a team that gets hot?

Basketball is a game that suffers a ton of influence from outside factors compared to other sports (officiating variations between games, for example). A team can get hot despite sucking all year. If they win it all, are they really the best team? There's a reason basketball and baseball in other levels have multiple games per round to really draw out who the best team is.

I understand liking chaos and the Cinderella stories and all that, but it's a farce to call the tournament winner the "national champion" of a season.
 
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#9
#9
ButchPlz said:
The question I have is: what's the point of the tournament?

Is it to determine who the best team (national champion) of the year is?

Or is it to reward a team that gets hot?

Basketball is a game that suffers a ton of influence from outside factors compared to other sports (officiating variations between games, for example). A team can get hot despite sucking all year. If they win it all, are they really the best team? There's a reason basketball and baseball in other levels have multiple games per round to really draw out who the best team is.

I understand liking chaos and the Cinderella stories and all that, but it's a farce to call the tournament winner the "national champion" of a season.
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Then it's a farce to call the NBA Champions, MLB Champions, NFL Champions, NHL Champions, champions as well.
 
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#10
#10
NO SIR EEE said:
Then it's a farce to call the NBA Champions, MLB Champions, NFL Champions, NHL Champions, champions as well.
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False.

Most of those leagues (exception NFL) are playing multi-game series, which is the whole point of what you initially responded to and my post. You end up with a more accurate representation of the "best" team most of the time. In the single-game NCAA tournament, you have a lot more randomness.
 
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#11
#11
ButchPlz said:
False.

Most of those leagues (exception NFL) are playing multi-game series, which is the whole point of what you initially responded to and my post. You end up with a more accurate representation of the "best" team most of the time. In the single-game NCAA tournament, you have a lot more randomness.
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I know for a fact that only once In the last 12 seasons, have the two teams with the best records in each league played in the World Series
 
#13
#13
NO SIR EEE said:
Then it's a farce to call the NBA Champions, MLB Champions, NFL Champions, NHL Champions, champions as well.
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so who do you think is the best team in the nation then? San Diego State? Florida Atlantic? Miami? UConn?

If you want the best team to be champion he is right, this is a terrible way to go about it. If you want pure craziness with no real meaning or implications behind it, this is a great way to go about it.
 
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#14
#14
LouderVol said:
so who do you think is the best team in the nation then? San Diego State? Florida Atlantic? Miami? UConn?

If you want the best team to be champion he is right, this is a terrible way to go about it. If you want pure craziness with no real meaning or implications behind it, this is a great way to go about it.
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Florida Atlantic actually has the best record in the nation, so by yalls logic, they should win the national championship
 
#15
#15
NO SIR EEE said:
Florida Atlantic actually has the best record in the nation, so by yalls logic, they should win the national championship
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No strength of record? Strength of wins?

I didn't see anyone argue that it should just go to the team with the most wins.

I can do it too, just watch: why not open it up to all it up to all 358 teams? That's what you want. An actual NATIONAL title tournament.
 
#16
#16
How accurate is the regular season in predicting who the best team is at season’s end? Especially with the portal and incoming freshman it probably takes 10 games for the team to start to gel. Some players really improve over the season. With the lose one and you are out format it forces teams to perform well under a lot of pressure And IMO makes the games much more interesting. I like the NFL format but find MLB and NBA playoffs boring, but I guess that is just me.
 
#17
#17
NO SIR EEE said:
I know for a fact that only once In the last 12 seasons, have the two teams with the best records in each league played in the World Series
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Record alone isn't the definition of "best team"...which is precisely what several multi-game series suss out. And again, you've kind of made my point. You're more likely to see what team is best in multiple regards over the course of those series. Remember, you're the one making an argument on record- nobody else has. We're trying to point out that the "best" team is not really coming out of a single-elimination tournament on account of randomness and factors well beyond the control of the team on the court.

If you want to argue that the best four teams in the nation are left in the NCAA basketball tourney this year (and, really, most years)- have at it. You're pretty much alone.

The tourney is a spectacle. It is what it is. But as the deciding factor of best team in the country? Eh, it's weak.
 
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#18
#18
DiderotsGhost said:
This is why a 68 team single-elimination tournament is the dumbest way to pick a national champion.

If you played the tournament 10 different times, you'd likely get at least 5 different champions and probably 20+ teams would make the Final Four in at least one of those variations. Really wish they'd cut the number of teams and start doing best-of-3 at some point (maybe only Sweet Sixteen onward).
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It's the most "made for TV" postseason of all the major sports, college or pro.

You can argue that any kind of playoff format isn't the best way to pick a champion. Especially in a sport/league where every team can play every other team (can't do that in any college sport, but could in some professional sports).
 
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#19
#19
05_never_again said:
It's the most "made for TV" postseason of all the major sports, college or pro.

You can argue that any kind of playoff format isn't the best way to pick a champion. Especially in a sport/league where every team can play every other team (can't do that in any college sport, but could in some professional sports).
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The Premier League and most soccer leagues have it right. Long season, round-robin format, points. Playoffs are a very American thing.

I enjoy them for what they are.
 
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#20
#20
NO SIR EEE said:
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. I love the way this is done. There is always some kind of chaos. There is a little luck involved, but it's about who rises to the occasion and plays some good basketball. I hate Tennessee was eliminated but this is just the way it is. I know there would be no possible way to do this with football without cutting a major portion of the season, but you almost certainly would never have a repeat champ.
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Just remember to be happy with the football 12 team playoff. That's all I'm asking. Eventually they'll give a 4th best team a championship, and we'll just say we enjoyed the chaos. Almost happened last time.
 
#22
#22
ButchPlz said:
The Premier League and most soccer leagues have it right. Long season, round-robin format, points. Playoffs are a very American thing.

I enjoy them for what they are.
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Yep. Was going to mention that, but thought I'd get flamed 😂

When you think about it, it is weird to have the entire regular season serve simply as a mechanism for seeding in a tournament. I think playoffs are very appropriate for all college sports and the NFL, since the nature of the sport doesn't allow for every team to play every other team the same/similar number of times.

But if the NHL/NBA/MLB wanted to, they could have all teams play each other the same number of times and just crown the team with the best record at the end of the season the champ. That isn't made for TV though, plus a playoff system where winners of geography-based divisions get automatic berths keeps different areas of the country interested for longer.
 
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#23
#23
Just because the schools are not well-known doesn’t mean it’s not good basketball. Some of you have seen Charles Barkley’s complaint about NIL, but this FF seems to say the opposite. Where are the big money programs?
 
#24
#24
Orange-U-Glad said:
Just because the schools are not well-known doesn’t mean it’s not good basketball. Some of you have seen Charles Barkley’s complaint about NIL, but this FF seems to say the opposite. Where are the big money programs?
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I don't think its bad basketball, I am not even saying its bad TV or a bad tournament. just that this tournament is clearly showing that it is terrible at identifying the actual best team, unless someone really wants to argue any of these 4 as the best team in the nation. best tournament team, sure.

to me basketball has always had a lot more parity than football. So I am not very shocked that none of the big traditional schools made it. as there are going to be more players that slip through, and because the game requires fewer resources its easier for smaller schools to be as good as the big guys.
 
#25
#25
Raebo said:
How accurate is the regular season in predicting who the best team is at season’s end? Especially with the portal and incoming freshman it probably takes 10 games for the team to start to gel. Some players really improve over the season. With the lose one and you are out format it forces teams to perform well under a lot of pressure And IMO makes the games much more interesting. I like the NFL format but find MLB and NBA playoffs boring, but I guess that is just me.
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if we are downplaying the regular season, why would the end of the season matter any more than the beginning of the season? plenty of factors go into the start of the season too. can you really say that Team X at the end of the season is better than Team Y at the start?

The tournament just removes that question and only asks who is the best team for like 2 or 3 weeks of March. that doesn't make them the best team in the nation or necessarily deserve a national title.
 
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