What happened since the 21-22 season (when the LVs were pretty good)?

[madtownvol]

So for all the Kellie and staff are completely incompetent narrative, we should recall her first few years when things looked pretty promising:


20-21 Summary:
The Lady Vols picked up wins over four ranked teams, including No. 2/3 South Carolina, and had near a near-miss against No. 3/5 UConn en route to a second-straight third-place SEC showing and the school’s 39th-consecutive appearance in the NCAA Tournament. Senior Rennia Davis (17.3 ppg., 8.8 rpg.), the No. 9 pick in the WNBA Draft by Minnesota, and junior Rae Burrell (16.8 ppg.) were All-SEC First and Second Team choices, respectively, and Davis was All-America Honorable Mention. Sophomore Tamari Key made the SEC All-Defensive Team, while Marta Surez was SEC All-Freshman.

21-22 Summary:

The Lady Vols, who ultimately were slowed by injuries to four key players, defeated five ranked teams and climbed to No. 4 in the AP Poll after opening at 18-1. It was UT's highest position since 2015-16. Senior Rae Burrell (12.3 ppg.) was the WNBA's No. 9 pick, while juniors Jordan Horston (16.2 ppg., 4.0 apg.) and Tamari Key (10.5 ppg., 8.1 rpg., 3.5 bpg.) were All-SEC First and Second Team, respectively. Key, who broke UT season and career blocks records, also made the SEC All-Defensive Team, while Sara Puckett was on the SEC All-Freshman Team. Horston garnered All-America Honorable Mention acclaim as well from AP and the WBCA.


I really want to focus on the 21-22 season where Rae went down with a knee injury in he opener and the team still rolled to 18-1. Then Keyen Green got injured and that seemed to have a surprising huge impact, coupled with a later season injury Jordan killed led to a 25-9 record but the team still made it to the Sweet 16.

But during those two seasons, it almost universal that people loved how the team player. Incredible effort on defense, creating second chance by dominating the boards, and lots of transition offense via turnovers. Our half court game left something to be desired but the team had a real identity and chemistry.

So, the evidence is there that Kellie could get this playing at a high level, particularly on the defensive side.

The team has never reached that same level of performance, particularly on the defensive side.

One obvious difference is Jordan Horston is gone. Though she a lot of criticism during her time for some her decision making and inconsistent shooting, she also DID EVERYTHING and was a defensive and rebounding beast.

But other than that, what happened to that Kellie ball identity which mirrored the classic LV formula of defense and rebounding etc, etc?

 

[Volfan2012]

So for all the Kellie and staff are completely incompetent narrative, we should recall her first few years when things looked pretty promising:


20-21 Summary:
The Lady Vols picked up wins over four ranked teams, including No. 2/3 South Carolina, and had near a near-miss against No. 3/5 UConn en route to a second-straight third-place SEC showing and the school’s 39th-consecutive appearance in the NCAA Tournament. Senior Rennia Davis (17.3 ppg., 8.8 rpg.), the No. 9 pick in the WNBA Draft by Minnesota, and junior Rae Burrell (16.8 ppg.) were All-SEC First and Second Team choices, respectively, and Davis was All-America Honorable Mention. Sophomore Tamari Key made the SEC All-Defensive Team, while Marta Surez was SEC All-Freshman.

21-22 Summary:

The Lady Vols, who ultimately were slowed by injuries to four key players, defeated five ranked teams and climbed to No. 4 in the AP Poll after opening at 18-1. It was UT's highest position since 2015-16. Senior Rae Burrell (12.3 ppg.) was the WNBA's No. 9 pick, while juniors Jordan Horston (16.2 ppg., 4.0 apg.) and Tamari Key (10.5 ppg., 8.1 rpg., 3.5 bpg.) were All-SEC First and Second Team, respectively. Key, who broke UT season and career blocks records, also made the SEC All-Defensive Team, while Sara Puckett was on the SEC All-Freshman Team. Horston garnered All-America Honorable Mention acclaim as well from AP and the WBCA.


I really want to focus on the 21-22 season where Rae went down with a knee injury in he opener and the team still rolled to 18-1. Then Keyen Green got injured and that seemed to have a surprising huge impact, coupled with a later season injury Jordan killed led to a 25-9 record but the team still made it to the Sweet 16.

But during those two seasons, it almost universal that people loved how the team player. Incredible effort on defense, creating second chance by dominating the boards, and lots of transition offense via turnovers. Our half court game left something to be desired but the team had a real identity and chemistry.

So, the evidence is there that Kellie could get this playing at a high level, particularly on the defensive side.

The team has never reached that same level of performance, particularly on the defensive side.

One obvious difference is Jordan Horston is gone. Though she a lot of criticism during her time for some her decision making and inconsistent shooting, she also DID EVERYTHING and was a defensive and rebounding beast.

But other than that, what happened to that Kellie ball identity which mirrored the classic LV formula of defense and rebounding etc, etc?

I think you have the consider that the talent level dropped to much. That is the only thing I can think of as why we can't suddenly rebound and play defense. Both those teams you mentioned were very solid rebounding teams and Tamari as a healthy young center made the defense of both those two teams better.
I have always said if we could get Rickea and Tamari back healthy with Tamari playing in her old form this team could make some noise. Rebounding and defense wins games were just not doing either very well this season.

 

[Go aeiou]

So for all the Kellie and staff are completely incompetent narrative, we should recall her first few years when things looked pretty promising:


20-21 Summary:
The Lady Vols picked up wins over four ranked teams, including No. 2/3 South Carolina, and had near a near-miss against No. 3/5 UConn en route to a second-straight third-place SEC showing and the school’s 39th-consecutive appearance in the NCAA Tournament. Senior Rennia Davis (17.3 ppg., 8.8 rpg.), the No. 9 pick in the WNBA Draft by Minnesota, and junior Rae Burrell (16.8 ppg.) were All-SEC First and Second Team choices, respectively, and Davis was All-America Honorable Mention. Sophomore Tamari Key made the SEC All-Defensive Team, while Marta Surez was SEC All-Freshman.

21-22 Summary:

The Lady Vols, who ultimately were slowed by injuries to four key players, defeated five ranked teams and climbed to No. 4 in the AP Poll after opening at 18-1. It was UT's highest position since 2015-16. Senior Rae Burrell (12.3 ppg.) was the WNBA's No. 9 pick, while juniors Jordan Horston (16.2 ppg., 4.0 apg.) and Tamari Key (10.5 ppg., 8.1 rpg., 3.5 bpg.) were All-SEC First and Second Team, respectively. Key, who broke UT season and career blocks records, also made the SEC All-Defensive Team, while Sara Puckett was on the SEC All-Freshman Team. Horston garnered All-America Honorable Mention acclaim as well from AP and the WBCA.


I really want to focus on the 21-22 season where Rae went down with a knee injury in he opener and the team still rolled to 18-1. Then Keyen Green got injured and that seemed to have a surprising huge impact, coupled with a later season injury Jordan killed led to a 25-9 record but the team still made it to the Sweet 16.

But during those two seasons, it almost universal that people loved how the team player. Incredible effort on defense, creating second chance by dominating the boards, and lots of transition offense via turnovers. Our half court game left something to be desired but the team had a real identity and chemistry.

So, the evidence is there that Kellie could get this playing at a high level, particularly on the defensive side.

The team has never reached that same level of performance, particularly on the defensive side.

One obvious difference is Jordan Horston is gone. Though she a lot of criticism during her time for some her decision making and inconsistent shooting, she also DID EVERYTHING and was a defensive and rebounding beast.

But other than that, what happened to that Kellie ball identity which mirrored the classic LV formula of defense and rebounding etc, etc?

Graduation? or used all eligibility?

 

[Volfan2012]

I'll add one more thing about Kellie Harper coaching the last couple of seasons. She seems to be ignoring bad play by certain players on the court. Not going to name anyone, but when they fail numerous defensive assignments she doesn't make them pay with benching and not playing. She also for whatever reason doesn't seem to be in touch with what is going on during the game. MTSU ran the same play 20 times and got the player open they wanted to get open many of those times. That player hit 5 of 6 threes and another player they ran it for hit 3 of 4. After you get burned a couple of times you need to be aware of it. Also they were screening out Powell on the player she was guarding and no one was picking up the player beyond the free throw line when that happened. A couple of times the player decided to not even take the three she was so unguarded that she dribbled a couple steps into the paint and hit the easy two. Kellie has for whatever reason not making the needed adjustments during games and she is not making the players accountable for mistakes just lets them play on. Maybe the pressure of being the coach of Tennessee is to much maybe she is ready to pack it in. You can't stand on the sideline and frown and yell at the Refs get that team over there call out players that are not doing the job and if that continues replace them. If we don't have five players that can do the job were in trouble anyway. If we have those five they need to be in there as many minutes as they can possibly stand and that should be 35 if they are in the shape they should be in.

Pat had no problem calling out individuals. She once told Glory Johnson who was having a bad game that if she didn't start rebounding she would be walking back to Knoxville. How many times have we seen Pat jump one player during a timeout about their play. If players really want to win they will respond and if they don't respond you don't need them on the team anyway.

 

[chuckiepoo]

So for all the Kellie and staff are completely incompetent narrative, we should recall her first few years when things looked pretty promising:


20-21 Summary:
The Lady Vols picked up wins over four ranked teams, including No. 2/3 South Carolina, and had near a near-miss against No. 3/5 UConn en route to a second-straight third-place SEC showing and the school’s 39th-consecutive appearance in the NCAA Tournament. Senior Rennia Davis (17.3 ppg., 8.8 rpg.), the No. 9 pick in the WNBA Draft by Minnesota, and junior Rae Burrell (16.8 ppg.) were All-SEC First and Second Team choices, respectively, and Davis was All-America Honorable Mention. Sophomore Tamari Key made the SEC All-Defensive Team, while Marta Surez was SEC All-Freshman.

21-22 Summary:

The Lady Vols, who ultimately were slowed by injuries to four key players, defeated five ranked teams and climbed to No. 4 in the AP Poll after opening at 18-1. It was UT's highest position since 2015-16. Senior Rae Burrell (12.3 ppg.) was the WNBA's No. 9 pick, while juniors Jordan Horston (16.2 ppg., 4.0 apg.) and Tamari Key (10.5 ppg., 8.1 rpg., 3.5 bpg.) were All-SEC First and Second Team, respectively. Key, who broke UT season and career blocks records, also made the SEC All-Defensive Team, while Sara Puckett was on the SEC All-Freshman Team. Horston garnered All-America Honorable Mention acclaim as well from AP and the WBCA.


I really want to focus on the 21-22 season where Rae went down with a knee injury in he opener and the team still rolled to 18-1. Then Keyen Green got injured and that seemed to have a surprising huge impact, coupled with a later season injury Jordan killed led to a 25-9 record but the team still made it to the Sweet 16.

But during those two seasons, it almost universal that people loved how the team player. Incredible effort on defense, creating second chance by dominating the boards, and lots of transition offense via turnovers. Our half court game left something to be desired but the team had a real identity and chemistry.

So, the evidence is there that Kellie could get this playing at a high level, particularly on the defensive side.

The team has never reached that same level of performance, particularly on the defensive side.

One obvious difference is Jordan Horston is gone. Though she a lot of criticism during her time for some her decision making and inconsistent shooting, she also DID EVERYTHING and was a defensive and rebounding beast.

But other than that, what happened to that Kellie ball identity which mirrored the classic LV formula of defense and rebounding etc, etc?

There ya go again…. Distracting the board from our precious…”Fahr Kellie”.

 

[Voltopia]

Institutional momentum from the last wave of impact recruits from the Holly era, a senior point guard with experience in the system, and much easier non-conference schedule to start the year.

I've mostly stopped harping on the "you have to get top 10 recruits to have an impact on the game" posts, but the fact remains that you have to have top 10 recruits to have an impact on the game in this sport. The talent is better than it was 20 years ago, yes, but the gap between "good players" and the elite basketball players is still vast. You can hide a lot of deficiencies behind players like Jordan Horston or Rennia Davis - or Rickea Jackson They can raise both the floor and the ceiling of a team's potential results.

That doesn't mean you can't win games without those top 10 types - but you will have to fight harder, work harder, coach better, and have much less margin of error than those uber-talented teams do. Harper's margin for error is razor thin right now. Her top 10 player Rickea Jackson (who again can help raise floors - and hide things under that floor) is out. Everything right now is exposed and magnified.

Also, this doesn't mean Tennessee doesn't have good players on its roster right now. They do.

 

[Majors]

Graduation? or used all eligibility?

Outside of Puckett, players mentioned were Holly recruits/players.

 

[chuckiepoo]

Outside of Puckett, players mentioned were Holly recruits/players.

True, but Key and Horston both had an open ticket to go elsewhere.

 

[madtownvol]

Outside of Puckett, players mentioned were Holly recruits/players.

Kellie also brought in Jordan Walker. Another unfairly maligned player, I bet that she and Horston were locker room leaders. Kellie's comments about ownership suggest that no one is stepping up in that role.

Holly's slide also began when their locker room leader, Cierra Burdick, graduated.

I don't want to over emphasize the psychological aspects of this but having peers holding each other accountable has some impact at the margins.

If Rickea is in the line-up, I don't think this current conversation is happening, but without her, everyone has to find that extra 10% and a team leader can play a huge role in making that difference.

 

[Vol4gzus]

I'll add one more thing about Kellie Harper coaching the last couple of seasons. She seems to be ignoring bad play by certain players on the court. Not going to name anyone, but when they fail numerous defensive assignments she doesn't make them pay with benching and not playing. She also for whatever reason doesn't seem to be in touch with what is going on during the game. MTSU ran the same play 20 times and got the player open they wanted to get open many of those times. That player hit 5 of 6 threes and another player they ran it for hit 3 of 4. After you get burned a couple of times you need to be aware of it. Also they were screening out Powell on the player she was guarding and no one was picking up the player beyond the free throw line when that happened. A couple of times the player decided to not even take the three she was so unguarded that she dribbled a couple steps into the paint and hit the easy two. Kellie has for whatever reason not making the needed adjustments during games and she is not making the players accountable for mistakes just lets them play on. Maybe the pressure of being the coach of Tennessee is to much maybe she is ready to pack it in. You can't stand on the sideline and frown and yell at the Refs get that team over there call out players that are not doing the job and if that continues replace them. If we don't have five players that can do the job were in trouble anyway. If we have those five they need to be in there as many minutes as they can possibly stand and that should be 35 if they are in the shape they should be in.

Pat had no problem calling out individuals. She once told Glory Johnson who was having a bad game that if she didn't start rebounding she would be walking back to Knoxville. How many times have we seen Pat jump one player during a timeout about their play. If players really want to win they will respond and if they don't respond you don't need them on the team anyway.

Today's snowflakes can't handle tough love. Kim sat the tiara queen down for 4 games(grades or mental health). Held another player out also. Granted the back ups at lsu aren't chopped liver. Anyway, this may be a year we miss or squeak in. Tamari playing into shape or playing cautiously isn't giving inside presence for d or rebounding.

 

[chuckiepoo]

Kellie also brought in Jordan Walker. Another unfairly maligned player, I bet that she and Horston were locker room leaders. Kellie's comments about ownership suggest that no one is stepping up in that role.

Holly's slide also began when their locker room leader, Cierra Burdick, graduated.

I don't want to over emphasize the psychological aspects of this but having peers holding each other accountable has some impact at the margins.

If Rickea is in the line-up, I don't think this current conversation is happening, but without her, everyone has to find that extra 10% and a team leader can play a huge role in making that difference.

Really tough to play the role of obvious leader and glue guy concurrently. Having said that, does this team have any glue?

 

[chuckiepoo]

Today's snowflakes can't handle tough love. Kim sat the tiara queen down for 4 games(grades or mental health). Held another player out also. Granted the back ups at lsu aren't chopped liver. Anyway, this may be a year we miss or squeak in. Tamari playing into shape or playing cautiously isn't giving inside presence for d or rebounding.

This isn’t going to go over well…

 

[Majors]

True, but Key and Horston both had an open ticket to go elsewhere.

Missing point was “what happened”. Coaches recruit certain types of players…Holly recruited those players for her system. Kellie somehow in her philosophy doesn’t value the same dynamic.

 

[Vol4gzus]

This isn’t going to go over well…

Uh oh did I tell the truth? Don't see any flags that will get my post taken down like one two weeks ago.

 

[madtownvol]

There ya go again…. Distracting the board from our precious…”Fahr Kellie”.

Sorry, I guess I am just a "beta" poster.

Here is the truly important question - is the change in your avatar for the season or the longer term?

 

[Majors]

Kellie also brought in Jordan Walker. Another unfairly maligned player, I bet that she and Horston were locker room leaders. Kellie's comments about ownership suggest that no one is stepping up in that role.

Holly's slide also began when their locker room leader, Cierra Burdick, graduated.

I don't want to over emphasize the psychological aspects of this but having peers holding each other accountable has some impact at the margins.

If Rickea is in the line-up, I don't think this current conversation is happening, but without her, everyone has to find that extra 10% and a team leader can play a huge role in making that difference.

“If” RJ is in the lineup. It’s not RJ’s job to save the program…sadly with her out it is showing major flaws. Team leader can lead in many way without leading the box score. Unless I missed it, I haven’t seen her call for a players only meeting.

 

[chuckiepoo]

Sorry, I guess I am just a "beta" poster.

Here is the truly important question - is the change in your avatar for the season or the longer term?

Just for the holidays. There was a challenge in the dugout and I participated. Great bunch over there.

 

[glv98]

Two things come to mind about our defensive presence and rebounding post 21-22.

First, the loss of TK as a rim protecter. Blow bys think twice.

Second is the continued trend towards very short guards. 21-22 we had Rae (part of the time) and Jordy who were long and agile. Last year, as you said, it was only Jordy sometimes w Rickea, this year only Rickea - until. The only others who have those physical capabilities don't have enough offensive skills to keep them on the court. JP gives her all and has some quicks, and Jordan Walker was a true dawg, but they're just too short and can easily be mismatched.

Ironically, we got two portal players who aren't very tall and came in saying they'd have to learn to play D. Glad we got them and still believe in their offensive games, but they're not helping the defensive numbers.

 

[madtownvol]

“If” RJ is in the lineup. It’s not RJ’s job to save the program…sadly with her out it is showing major flaws. Team leader can lead in many way without leading the box score. Unless I missed it, I haven’t seen her call for a players only meeting.

What?? So, are you disagreeing with the premise that with RJ at 100% in the line-up this current slide does not happen? If so fine. If not, then this post is contrarian posturing. No one ever suggested that RJ should be calling plays.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

I think you have the consider that the talent level dropped to much. That is the only thing I can think of as why we can't suddenly rebound and play defense. Both those teams you mentioned were very solid rebounding teams and Tamari as a healthy young center made the defense of both those two teams better.
I have always said if we could get Rickea and Tamari back healthy with Tamari playing in her old form this team could make some noise. Rebounding and defense wins games were just not doing either very well this season.

The key for us is to get Rickea back and for Spear to be aggressive like she was at Wake, that’s the 2 things that can get us far in my opinion.

 

[Majors]

What?? So, are you disagreeing with the premise that with RJ at 100% in the line-up this current slide does not happen? If so fine. If not, then this post is contrarian posturing. No one ever suggested that RJ should be calling plays.

We slide last year with her in the lineup. We didn’t have a MTSU moment. No doubt she makes us better, not playing she also is exposing a weak coaching staff with a roster with nobody stepping up.

 

[glv98]

Today's snowflakes can't handle tough love. Kim sat the tiara queen down for 4 games(grades or mental health). Held another player out also. Granted the back ups at lsu aren't chopped liver.

Maybe you're forgetting one year ago when Kellie sat her prized portal recruit for a "coaches decision"? Showed that snowflake some really tough love by making her sit on the bench, in public, every minute of every game. Made her interact in huddles, get the camera in face from tv while they discussed her crimes, etc.

Unlike Kim's snowflake who was hidden away the whole time before once again emerging the wronged hero. But I get it, she had to make sure no more fisticuffs broke out.

 

[madtownvol]

Two things come to mind about our defensive presence and rebounding post 21-22.

First, the loss of TK as a rim protecter. Blow bys think twice.

Second is the continued trend towards very short guards. 21-22 we had Rae (part of the time) and Jordy who were long and agile. Last year, as you said, it was only Jordy sometimes w Rickea, this year only Rickea - until. The only others who have those physical capabilities don't have enough offensive skills to keep them on the court. JP gives her all and has some quicks, and Jordan Walker was a true dawg, but they're just too short and can easily be mismatched.

Ironically, we got two portal players who aren't very tall and came in saying they'd have to learn to play D. Glad we got them and still believe in their offensive games, but they're not helping the defensive numbers.

That makes sense but I can recall when our bigger guards would get torched by small guards (a theme of the last several seasons) and the lament was that our guards are too big and lacked the requisite lateral quickness. Hence the solution was that we needed super quick "waterbug" types who could really hound people with their lateral quickness.

Sometimes Wells and Powell or Spears are getting posted up by bigger guards or rebounded over but they are mostly getting beat in the open court. That is an inexplicable defensive problem.

We known that Darby and Puckett are going to struggle on that dimension but Wells, Spears, Powell, and Wynn (while many keep saying she is a lock down defender, she gets beat routinely).

Absolutely, having a healthy blocking shots would erase many of those breakdowns but, it just hard to understand, why this problem is so persistent.

 

[glv98]

We slide last year with her in the lineup. We didn’t have a MTSU moment. No doubt she makes us better, not playing she also is exposing a weak coaching staff with a roster with nobody stepping up.

Yes, yes, yes RJ makes us better to the extent that her not playing exposes every weakness .Call her Curad, bc she's a human bandaid. It's why we rejoiced when she came back and why we are currently living in a van down by the river. Shouldn't be that way, but yes, it is. Remember how well Sara and Jewel scored when we had RJ?

She did it last year most of the time too. Sometimes Jordy stepped up but that wasn't always reliable. Remember the first of the SEC season last year? Remember the SEC tourney? She is that player.

Can she do it again when/if she comes back? It's iffy but I sure as sh*t hope so. And I won't be giving any win back bc we used a band aid.

 

[madtownvol]

Maybe you're forgetting one year ago when Kellie sat her prized portal recruit for a "coaches decision"? Showed that snowflake some really tough love by making her sit on the bench, in public, every minute of every game. Made her interact in huddles, get the camera in face from tv while they discussed her crimes, etc.

Unlike Kim's snowflake who was hidden away the whole time before once again emerging the wronged hero. But I get it, she had to make sure no more fisticuffs broke out.

The post you are responding to is why I started this thread, The "burn her" crowd have just ignored Kellie's actual record and actions to invent this fictional coach who is afraid of her players, serves her husband sandwiches on the sidelines and lets him run the team, and is completely clueless.

In her first three seasons, it really seemed like she was turning the program around and even naysayers, were saying "eh, maybe...."

I am sad to see this season unraveling. Either after 5 years, Kellie's we-are-family mantra has gone stale (and that was about how long Holly was able to keep things afloat) or the team is going to rally and make a turn around.

Still hoping for the latter but I have to confess that I do see a few vultures circling around the program.