What Is Driving the American Mental Health Crisis?

[n_huffhines]

Really interesting convo. It's a popular opinion to say smart phones and social media are the cause of all our social ills, but new (to me) research refutes that.

This researcher questions the idea that we are in a sudden mental health crisis in the first place. It's hard to separate the increase in cases from the increase in diagnosis. However, suicide among teens is clearly up.

Internationally, we are not seeing these same trends, particularly in non-English-speaking countries. Smart phones and social media are everywhere, so if they are part of the problem, it pertains to the way English-speaking western culture uses it.

I agree that part of it is an increase in diagnosis, and that a significant part of it must be explained by culture, but what about our culture is the issue? Pre-empting some expected explanations...we're not the only materialistic culture. We're not the only godless culture. "Talk amongst yourselves."

Note: the host of this pod has done about 5 episodes saying smartphones are the problem, so this episode was quite the pivot.

Are Smartphones Really Driving the Rise in Teenage Depression?

Derek takes a closer critical look at the relationship between smartphones and mental health

www.theringer.com

 

[KB5252]

I think much of it is hopelessness. Lack of meaning, emptyness.

Life is too easy, opportunities aren't what they used to be. There no longer a drive among many young people, they are content to withdraw into their cacoons only isolating themselves

Young people honestly believe they need to look like, behave like the people they are drawn to on tick tock etc. and often those people are empty as they are just putting on a face to be relevant, wanted.

I was once diagnosed as ADHD with mania and drastic mood swings. They put me on mood stabilizers and I hated them. I felt even more emptiness, less than that I felt nothing. No emotion. After two months I accepted that mood swings are normal, is better to feel great joy and sadness. That's what makes us human, at least in part. I think instead of confronting the things that make us feel horrible we apply our standards of convenience to mood and mental health and seek an easy outside solution to a complicated internal issue that requires action..... And sometimes requires us to make difficult decisions.

 

[VolTull]

I think much of it is hopelessness. Lack of meaning, emptyness.

Life is too easy, opportunities aren't what they used to be. There no longer a drive among many young people, they are content to withdraw into their cacoons only isolating themselves

Young people honestly believe they need to look like, behave like the people they are drawn to on tick tock etc. and often those people are empty as they are just putting on a face to be relevant, wanted.

I was once diagnosed as ADHD with mania and drastic mood swings. They put me on mood stabilizers and I hated them. I felt even more emptiness, less than that I felt nothing. No emotion. After two months I accepted that mood swings are normal, is better to feel great joy and sadness. That's what makes us human, at least in part. I think instead of confronting the things that make us feel horrible we apply our standards of convenience to mood and mental health and seek an easy outside solution to a complicated internal issue that requires action..... And sometimes requires us to make difficult decisions.

Thanks for the insight

 

[n_huffhines]

I think much of it is hopelessness. Lack of meaning, emptyness.

Life is too easy, opportunities aren't what they used to be. There no longer a drive among many young people, they are content to withdraw into their cacoons only isolating themselves

Young people honestly believe they need to look like, behave like the people they are drawn to on tick tock etc. and often those people are empty as they are just putting on a face to be relevant, wanted.

I was once diagnosed as ADHD with mania and drastic mood swings. They put me on mood stabilizers and I hated them. I felt even more emptiness, less than that I felt nothing. No emotion. After two months I accepted that mood swings are normal, is better to feel great joy and sadness. That's what makes us human, at least in part. I think instead of confronting the things that make us feel horrible we apply our standards of convenience to mood and mental health and seek an easy outside solution to a complicated internal issue that requires action..... And sometimes requires us to make difficult decisions.

I think confronting my anxiety worked pretty well for me on the whole. Understanding that I was anxious in the first place helped me cope, but they discuss research that suggests our acceptance has led to problems because we have allowed ourselves to make it too much of our identity. I think this is actually partially true for me. I am glad I am aware but maybe I associate myself too much with it, and it's more present now, even if I cope better.

I agree with the life is too easy part. When you're wondering where your next meal is coming from, it's harder to get anxious about the expanse of the universe.

I think opportunities are what they used to be more or less, just the perception is different. I'd probably sooner argue there is more opportunity now. I think the depressing thing is realizing there is opportunity and you feel like a loser. I have a friend who lives off an Instagram business selling uncut gems, like turquoise. That's it. It wasn't this easy before. She doesn't have real estate overhead, she doesn't have to buy a spot in the yellow pages, she has a nationwide presence overnight, etc. There is no excuse because all you have to do is be a little clever and ambitious, and you can find a niche. Hell, my job didn't exist when I graduated high school, and it's a huge industry now (SEO). So we have fewer factory jobs and other traditional markers like that, but I can't believe that there is actually less opportunity now.

 

[volbound1700]

I think much of it is hopelessness. Lack of meaning, emptyness.

Life is too easy, opportunities aren't what they used to be. There no longer a drive among many young people, they are content to withdraw into their cacoons only isolating themselves

Young people honestly believe they need to look like, behave like the people they are drawn to on tick tock etc. and often those people are empty as they are just putting on a face to be relevant, wanted.

I was once diagnosed as ADHD with mania and drastic mood swings. They put me on mood stabilizers and I hated them. I felt even more emptiness, less than that I felt nothing. No emotion. After two months I accepted that mood swings are normal, is better to feel great joy and sadness. That's what makes us human, at least in part. I think instead of confronting the things that make us feel horrible we apply our standards of convenience to mood and mental health and seek an easy outside solution to a complicated internal issue that requires action..... And sometimes requires us to make difficult decisions.

Lack of meaning/purpose is the key.

You are also correct that by removing the survival element of our life, we are left pretty empty (and with plenty of time to think and get concerned about stuff that ultimately isn't that important)

 

[KB5252]

I think confronting my anxiety worked pretty well for me on the whole. Understanding that I was anxious in the first place helped me cope, but they discuss research that suggests our acceptance has led to problems because we have allowed ourselves to make it too much of our identity. I think this is actually partially true for me. I am glad I am aware but maybe I associate myself too much with it, and it's more present now, even if I cope better.

I agree with the life is too easy part. When you're wondering where your next meal is coming from, it's harder to get anxious about the expanse of the universe.

I think opportunities are what they used to be more or less, just the perception is different. I'd probably sooner argue there is more opportunity now. I think the depressing thing is realizing there is opportunity and you feel like a loser. I have a friend who lives off an Instagram business selling uncut gems, like turquoise. That's it. It wasn't this easy before. She doesn't have real estate overhead, she doesn't have to buy a spot in the yellow pages, she has a nationwide presence overnight, etc. There is no excuse because all you have to do is be a little clever and ambitious, and you can find a niche. Hell, my job didn't exist when I graduated high school, and it's a huge industry now (SEO). So we have fewer factory jobs and other traditional markers like that, but I can't believe that there is actually less opportunity now.

I think for certain groups there isn't as much opportunity, I think the opportunities available don't pay as well relative to inflation as they did 10 years ago. People are living paycheck to paycheck. We can't put anything aside. The economy took a very good paying job away from my wife. She now makes about half of what she did in the same industry, I've taken a part time job and we often can't make ends meet.

We are stuck because inflation has doubled the price for almost everything on our farm. We ran a rescue for special needs, elderly and otherwise unwanted farm animals for years. We can no longer do that and have only been able to care for the animals already on our farm...... And just barely. Like many Americans we have had to use the credit card much more recently. We are just barely scraping by. I'm not a young person by any means but right now that's the reality for many people in rural areas.

 

[n_huffhines]

I think one thing about our culture that's probably part of the problem...the male adult demographic has seen a big increase in anxiety, depression, and suicide, and I think it might be because women have become more independent. Of course, I'm not saying that this aspect of the women's movement is a bad thing. They should have careers if they want them. They should be independent if they want to be. But that doesn't mean it's good for every guy, and now we have more incels yearning for an old-fashioned lifestyle when there aren't enough old-fashioned women to go around.

 

[volbound1700]

I think for certain groups there isn't as much opportunity, I think the opportunities available don't pay as well relative to inflation as they did 10 years ago. People are living paycheck to paycheck. We can't put anything aside. The economy took a very good paying job away from my wife. She now makes about half of what she did in the same industry, I've taken a part time job and we often can't make ends meet.

We are stuck because inflation has doubled the price for almost everything on our farm. We ran a rescue for special needs, elderly and otherwise unwanted farm animals for years. We can no longer do that and have only been able to care for the animals already on our farm...... And just barely. Like many Americans we have had to use the credit card much more recently. We are just barely scraping by. I'm not a young person by any means but right now that's the reality for many people in rural areas.

I can see that but I don't think it fully explains it. My reasoning is that the USA was in worse shape in the 1930s and then if you go back in history (1800s and earlier), you are basically skirting to survive if your an average person. If your crops fail, you are destitute/starving.

I think it is something deeper. I agree things are harder now versus 1990s for example but things are still a lot better now versus 1930s, 1800s, 1700s, Middle Ages, 2000 B.C., etc. You don't have the rash of mental illnesses (at least recorded) in those past eras.

 

[n_huffhines]

I think for certain groups there isn't as much opportunity, I think the opportunities available don't pay as well relative to inflation as they did 10 years ago. People are living paycheck to paycheck. We can't put anything aside. The economy took a very good paying job away from my wife. She now makes about half of what she did in the same industry, I've taken a part time job and we often can't make ends meet.

We are stuck because inflation has doubled the price for almost everything on our farm. We ran a rescue for special needs, elderly and otherwise unwanted farm animals for years. We can no longer do that and have only been able to care for the animals already on our farm...... And just barely. Like many Americans we have had to use the credit card much more recently. We are just barely scraping by. I'm not a young person by any means but right now that's the reality for many people in rural areas.

Inflation's crushing us, too. Definitely feeling that. We went from comfortable to tight b-hole budget. But we had global inflation. It didn't just happen here.

 

[Grand Vol]

A good topic...

I tend to think the problem lies with the pendulum swinging. As with all things, it's swung too far in one direction.

Historically, 30-50 years ago, there weren't "as many" (or at least defined) mental disorders. And those that had definitions and were diagnosed were often put into mental hospitals that tended to their needs. There wasn't a great deal of research done because the prevailing opinion was:

"You're crazy, lock them up." Because the mental disorder was probably that bad. Or mental health professionals felt like there weren't better options.

And "minor" cases were often ignored or dismissed. However, since that time, there has been way more research, better treatment, increased medications, etc and people that were deemed "crazy" before can lead fairly productive lives without being committed to an institution.

But enter the pendulum...

I do think we've swung a bit too far in our ability to treat certain disorders and call them "fit for society." As well as possibly over diagnosing problems that didn't exist (or were ignored) even 20 years ago. Take children for example. ADD & ADHD are relatively "new" to the mental health realm. And often treated with medication these days. However, the treatment used to be "go outside and burn off the energy" instead of hopping them up on a cocktail of meds and expecting them to sit quietly. Or even the trans debate... which is a different discussion entirely, but still related to the pendulum swinging way far in one direction.

So, I personally think the problem lies in a couple of areas. One being over-diagnosing "mental problems" and trying to treat them with either therapy or medication. Or adding in the "this is normal" and telling them to go on with their life.

The second issue is the eagerness or quickness to diagnose with something someone found in the DSM-5. Just because it's a "thing" doesn't automatically mean the person has that "thing." But often, the "thing" doesn't get a second diagnosis and the person is stuck with the "thing." Example:

Just because a child gets hyper doesn't mean they need that prescription of ritalin. Could just mean they need to get out of the house for a bit. But we, being the instant gratification society and world we are, want results NOW and don't even think of holistic remedies for so called "problems." So, the child gets diagnosed with ADHD and given a prescription without a second thought.

So, deep subject, but I think the pendulum has swung further than it should.

 

[hndog609]

I think the biggest problem with social media is it's effectively a force multiplier for whatever problems one may already have. Got body positivity issues? Let us help you out with a bombardment of unrealistic bodies for most people. Some in fact aren't even real for that matter.

30 Times People Uncovered How Fake Some Pics On Instagram Are And Just Had To Share (New Pics)

It’s very easy to feel insecure in the information age.

www.boredpanda.com

So you push back so hard you go "FR" on it and end up with people telling you double xtra morbid obesity is so brave and beautiful that to tout healthy eating and going to the gym is "fat phobic". That someone like Adele losing a bunch of weight is seen as practically a hate crime by some just boggles my mind. And to be clear that's just one really easy topic to cite.

Upshot; whatever problems you may have making them worse is as easy picking up your phone.

 

[LouderVol]

I don't think its SM at all. SM is a magnifying glass, making the problems more apparent.

I think a good bit of it is confirmation bias so to speak. we are more aware of it so there seems to be more of it.

there has also been a number of studies talking about how mental health issues are almost uniquely a first world problem. The poorer you and your surroundings are, the less mental health issues you and your society has. it was true in the 50s, 80s, 90s, and now.

saw multiple studies how private schools deal with more mental health issues than public schools.

The prevalence of depression, anxiety, and stress among high school adolescent's children in public and private schools in Rangareddy district Telangana state: A cross-sectional study

The depression, anxiety, and stress is a major educational problem among students all around the world. The purposes of this study were to determine the depression, anxiety, and stress among the high school adolescent children in public and private schools ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"The overall prevalence of depression in children from the public school was found to be only 5%, that of anxiety was 20.8%, and that of stress was 15.8%; the overall prevalence of depression in children from private schools was found to be 1.9%, that of anxiety was 20.5%, and that of stress was 20.1%."

public schools have more depression but less of the rest. some of it may just be diagnosis bias, but it matches the economic studies I had seen in the past.

I think stress is a key factor. before technology everyone was more active which is natural counter to stress. same things goes for poorer groups than richer, less tech, more activity and you are more likely to work out that stress. whether its stress or other issues, I think physical activity is a key part of decreasing it.

when going through therapy that was one of the things they pushed for me, granted I had also gained a lot of weight. but they stressed the importance of being active, and even more importantly they pushed being outside. daylight is so important. its not only tied to our sleep cycles, and the disruption with all the blue light from screens; but also various health factors. like during Covid D3 deficiencies were one of the most common factors for those who suffered badly. We get D3 from the sun. There is also a good bit of science of humans needing to spend time in nature, we need to see the color green, and plants. its kinda a trope online, but "Go outside and touch grass" is a very important thing. Even for those who are "active" they hit a gym, with no windows, listen to digital music, breathe the same recycled air they had elsewhere. getting outside would help them too.

we have forgotten how to stand still, and our brains/mental health are paying the price. when was the last time someone just stood there and enjoyed the moment? Just stood still, not listening to music, not taking a picture, not tweeting about it, just simply stood, and was for a moment. somewhere outside, in nature, for more than a minute or two.

we have all these conveniences in our lives, but we don't have any more time than we did before. we are constantly having to fill our lives with more and more. and in reality often the answer is less. We need fewer, more powerful moments, instead of a constant drip of artificial feedback.

 

[Pennheel]

I can't really add much to what has been mentioned already. I can say we are more educated now compared to say 40 years ago where for instance different forms of autism were under one blanket term,and very vague so not much was known. I was diagnosed as PDD-NOS as a kid in the 80s and it's now part of the spectrum. I think there's still a lot to learn even today about mental health. we've came a long way as a society when it relatively wasn't long ago that we put people people in institutions that were deemed unfit to be a part of society.

That might be a whole bunch of nothing on my part,but JMO.

Also, I agree about the topic. It's a good one to discuss that's not brought up as much as it should be.

 

[UT_VOLS13]

They closed most mental health hospitals because they were deemed cruel!

 

[82_VOL_83]

All of the above.

 

[kiddiedoc]

SM has definitely lead to more isolation, spending time comparing your life to artificial fantasy world, and less time doing productive things like being outdoors, exercise, being creative (art, music, building, gardening, etc), and connecting with others in person or on the phone.

Much of our medical treatment has focused too heavily on pharmaceuticals, IMHO, where more energy should be invested in behavioral therapy, lifestyle modification, and support/ intervention for substance/alcohol abuse and limitation of opioid and other drug abuse.

There is great evidence that "acceptance therapy" is great as a CBT intervention for anxiety and depression, but it takes trained practitioners and patients willing to do the work, rather than taking the quick route to medications that numb or ease discomfort.

I'm tired, sorry if that's a little disjointed.

 

[n_huffhines]

SM has definitely lead to more isolation, spending time comparing your life to artificial fantasy world, and less time doing productive things like being outdoors, exercise, being creative (art, music, building, gardening, etc), and connecting with others in person or on the phone.

Much of our medical treatment has focused too heavily on pharmaceuticals, IMHO, where more energy should be invested in behavioral therapy, lifestyle modification, and support/ intervention for substance/alcohol abuse and limitation of opioid and other drug abuse.

There is great evidence that "acceptance therapy" is great as a CBT intervention for anxiety and depression, but it takes trained practitioners and patients willing to do the work, rather than taking the quick route to medications that numb or ease discomfort.

I'm tired, sorry if that's a little disjointed.

The odd thing is the data shows that kids/teens who use social media are more social IRL vs. the other kids.

I would also say kids/people use social media as an outlet for their creativity. Hell, all my friend's wives are just doing **** so they can put it on the socials...wait, Kylie climbed Flat Iron? Why, that seems out of her wheel house? Oh, so she could put it on social media.

 

[Matt2496]

Really interesting convo. It's a popular opinion to say smart phones and social media are the cause of all our social ills, but new (to me) research refutes that.

This researcher questions the idea that we are in a sudden mental health crisis in the first place. It's hard to separate the increase in cases from the increase in diagnosis. However, suicide among teens is clearly up.

Internationally, we are not seeing these same trends, particularly in non-English-speaking countries. Smart phones and social media are everywhere, so if they are part of the problem, it pertains to the way English-speaking western culture uses it.

I agree that part of it is an increase in diagnosis, and that a significant part of it must be explained by culture, but what about our culture is the issue? Pre-empting some expected explanations...we're not the only materialistic culture. We're not the only godless culture. "Talk amongst yourselves."

Note: the host of this pod has done about 5 episodes saying smartphones are the problem, so this episode was quite the pivot.

Are Smartphones Really Driving the Rise in Teenage Depression?

Derek takes a closer critical look at the relationship between smartphones and mental health

www.theringer.com

I think Scott Galloway touches on some of the contributors in this TED talk.



I disagree with his solutions though.

 

[whodeycin85]

The odd thing is the data shows that kids/teens who use social media are more social IRL vs. the other kids.

I would also say kids/people use social media as an outlet for their creativity. Hell, all my friend's wives are just doing **** so they can put it on the socials...wait, Kylie climbed Flat Iron? Why, that seems out of her wheel house? Oh, so she could put it on social media.

I don't think it's so much they are not social, I think it's the way they are social. Most in my experience lack tact when speaking face to face. It make SM users feel they can say anything without consequences. So they can insult, insinuate etc but can't handle when it's given back worse cuz they can't block IRL. Also the need for likes and attention that SM cause leaves many not able to have food faith conversations cuz they are looking for the gotcha...or soundbite... Hell we just saw it on Congress...I think when they don't get the same dopamine hit IRL it cause depression and anxiety..
My son's behavior changed dramatically when we took away SM... He is 12 but he went from arguing over everything all the time to actually listening before responding

 

[dalton_vol]

We've become a godless society. We're seeing bad news, news 24/7. Our mental faculties are not designed to handle this much information in a day, everyday.

I handle mental disability cases and it's largest diagnoses of disability claims people are filing. Work stress drives so many of these diagnoses. The mental health professionals have job security for decades. More and more mental health providers have stopped taking insurance. I dontxsee it getting better.

 

[KB5252]

Another thing I believe is driving this phenomenon............. The uber commercialization of pharma and medicine.

 

[508mikey]

We've become a godless society. We're seeing bad news, news 24/7. Our mental faculties are not designed to handle this much information in a day, everyday.

I handle mental disability cases and it's largest diagnoses of disability claims people are filing. Work stress drives so many of these diagnoses. The mental health professionals have job security for decades. More and more mental health providers have stopped taking insurance. I dontxsee it getting better.

If they stop taking insurance how do they expect to get paid ?

 

[dalton_vol]

If they stop taking insurance how do they expect to get paid ?

Some still take insurance but more and more are not, the insurance companies have to be getting overwhelmed with mental health claims

 

[dalton_vol]

Another thing I believe is driving this phenomenon............. The uber commercialization of pharma and medicine.

I think people want to live and feel euphoric 24/7. They've lost the understanding that they are going to be down and sad some days. They can no longer handle that

 

[jp1]

I don't think its SM at all. SM is a magnifying glass, making the problems more apparent.

I think a good bit of it is confirmation bias so to speak. we are more aware of it so there seems to be more of it.

there has also been a number of studies talking about how mental health issues are almost uniquely a first world problem. The poorer you and your surroundings are, the less mental health issues you and your society has. it was true in the 50s, 80s, 90s, and now.

saw multiple studies how private schools deal with more mental health issues than public schools.

The prevalence of depression, anxiety, and stress among high school adolescent's children in public and private schools in Rangareddy district Telangana state: A cross-sectional study

The depression, anxiety, and stress is a major educational problem among students all around the world. The purposes of this study were to determine the depression, anxiety, and stress among the high school adolescent children in public and private schools ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"The overall prevalence of depression in children from the public school was found to be only 5%, that of anxiety was 20.8%, and that of stress was 15.8%; the overall prevalence of depression in children from private schools was found to be 1.9%, that of anxiety was 20.5%, and that of stress was 20.1%."

public schools have more depression but less of the rest. some of it may just be diagnosis bias, but it matches the economic studies I had seen in the past.

I think stress is a key factor. before technology everyone was more active which is natural counter to stress. same things goes for poorer groups than richer, less tech, more activity and you are more likely to work out that stress. whether its stress or other issues, I think physical activity is a key part of decreasing it.

when going through therapy that was one of the things they pushed for me, granted I had also gained a lot of weight. but they stressed the importance of being active, and even more importantly they pushed being outside. daylight is so important. its not only tied to our sleep cycles, and the disruption with all the blue light from screens; but also various health factors. like during Covid D3 deficiencies were one of the most common factors for those who suffered badly. We get D3 from the sun. There is also a good bit of science of humans needing to spend time in nature, we need to see the color green, and plants. its kinda a trope online, but "Go outside and touch grass" is a very important thing. Even for those who are "active" they hit a gym, with no windows, listen to digital music, breathe the same recycled air they had elsewhere. getting outside would help them too.

we have forgotten how to stand still, and our brains/mental health are paying the price. when was the last time someone just stood there and enjoyed the moment? Just stood still, not listening to music, not taking a picture, not tweeting about it, just simply stood, and was for a moment. somewhere outside, in nature, for more than a minute or two.

we have all these conveniences in our lives, but we don't have any more time than we did before. we are constantly having to fill our lives with more and more. and in reality often the answer is less. We need fewer, more powerful moments, instead of a constant drip of artificial feedback.

I agree with what you said. I think all of our lives are more busy with less time to decompress (aka your take on being in nature). This is true for our youth too, more activities and rush from one thing to another.