What worries me (long)

#1
Eddie Vol Halen

Eddie Vol Halen

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#1
I'm really worried about the entire administration at UT. Cheek has not advanced one iota his flagship program, and he seems determined this will affect the athletics program as well.

I'm worried about Dave Hart. I've not liked the way he has gone about his business one bit, although I know some of it had to be done. He was responsible for the most important hire in Tennessee football in over a generation, and I believe the stories that the boosters put Au on an Ag platter for him, but he decided it was going to be his hire no matter what.

I'm worried that because his hire was Butch Jones, that CBJ could define his tenure in two months time. CBJ and team have to completely transform this recruiting class and bring it from #30 to #15 minimum. If he doesn't radically transform this class, I fear it will hamstring his entire tenure. It may not be fair, but Jon Gruden would get time; Butch won't.

I have complex feelings about UT hiring Cincinnati's staff. I can't say it doesn't worry me. I hope CBJ and Co kicks ass and takes names. I really do.

In short, I'm really worried about Tennessee Football.
 
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#2
#2
You should be used to regime changes - like when Sammy Hagar took over lead vocals for your band.
 
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#3
#3
You can replace David Lee with Sammy H. That's still Grudenesque.

Unfortunately, change sometimes brings a Gary Cherone type hire.

Kiffin, Dooley, and (I fear) Butch = Gary Cherone. They equal Gary Cherone big time.
 
#4
#4
Eddie Vol Halen said:
I'm really worried about the entire administration at UT. Cheek has not advanced one iota his flagship program, and he seems determined this will affect the athletics program as well.

I'm worried about Dave Hart. I've not liked the way he has gone about his business one bit, although I know some of it had to be done. He was responsible for the most important hire in Tennessee football in over a generation, and I believe the stories that the boosters put Au on an Ag platter for him, but he decided it was going to be his hire no matter what.[/B]

I'm worried that because his hire was Butch Jones, that CBJ could define his tenure in two months time. CBJ and team have to completely transform this recruiting class and bring it from #30 to #15 minimum. If he doesn't radically transform this class, I fear it will hamstring his entire tenure. It may not be fair, but Jon Gruden would get time; Butch won't.

I have complex feelings about UT hiring Cincinnati's staff. I can't say it doesn't worry me. I hope CBJ and Co kicks ass and takes names. I really do.

In short, I'm really worried about Tennessee Football.
Click to expand...

Just because you believe it doesn't make it true.
 
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#5
#5
Eddie Vol Halen said:
You can replace David Lee with Sammy H. That's still Grudenesque.

Unfortunately, change sometimes brings a Gary Cherone type hire.

Kiffin, Dooley, and (I fear) Butch = Gary Cherone. They equal Gary Cherone big time.
Click to expand...

Who do you think you are? Gary Cherone is a great vocalist. Kiffin and Dooley are more like the lead singer for Nickelback.

Extreme for life!
 
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#6
#6
TennesseeOrange said:
Just because you believe it doesn't make it true.
Click to expand...

These recent days of hand-wringing a la Lady Macbeth have been all too nostalgic of the Dooley hire. To be honest, none of us are accustomed to UT coaching turnover (well, a LOT more accusomted now), so it worries me that everything sounds so much like Dooley Redux.

The Stephen Hargis story was the most accurate description to date of what was really happening. Everything post Butch hire has been people toeing a line for the sake of the program.

But as one thread foreshadowed: there will be consequences.
 
#8
#8
UTMBA said:
That's a lot of worry packed into one post.
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a la The Declaration of Independence.

I'd be really worried right now about Vol fans who aren't concerned - especially about the administration.

I am really worried that Butch Jones will have his tenure defined by Feb 2013. If he doesn't transform this class, who will believe he is going to be recruiting against the big dogs of the SEC even in Year Two?
 
#9
#9
Yeah, I like Butch Jones, but what worries me is that the powers-that-be at UT have shown that they absolutely refuse to go out and try to compete with our rivals in terms of coaching hires.

Look at Arkansas (who has never even won an SEC championship). They made public offers to Jon Gruden and Les Miles. They ended up with a young proven winner from a major conference, a guy who took his team to the Rose Bowl in three straight years.

We didn't make a public offer that was in the league with any of those. We could have gone after Chip Kelly or David Shaw or Bo Pelini or Gary Patterson. But instead, we went straight for Charlie Strong? That alone tells me that the AD doesn't care about winning at a high level. We ended up with Jones and I think he's got a chance to be great here one day. But with the uphill battle we've got facing us with recruiting and fan support and our rivals getting better and better, we really needed to try to find someone who has more than a chance, who was more of a sure thing. And Hart didn't even try. And I don't get the sense that the big boosters or the rest of the administration had any problem with that. And that is very worrisome.
 
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#10
#10
oregonvol said:
Yeah, I like Butch Jones, but what worries me is that the powers-that-be at UT have shown that they absolutely refuse to go out and try to compete with our rivals in terms of coaching hires.

Look at Arkansas (who has never even won an SEC championship). They made public offers to Jon Gruden and Les Miles. They ended up with a young proven winner from a major conference, a guy who took his team to the Rose Bowl in three straight years.

And I don't get the sense that the big boosters or the rest of the administration had any problem with that. And that is very worrisome.
Click to expand...

This was better said than the OP. No matter what you think of the hire, the process was a complete cluster from day one (especially since day one came so damn late).

I do get the feeling there was a big disconnect between boosters and administration though. All this hand-wringing that "Gruden didn't want to be here" is so ex post facto. It is absolutely contrary to the way EVERYTHING played out.
 
#11
#11
FZJ80 said:
Who do you think you are? Gary Cherone is a great vocalist. Kiffin and Dooley are more like the lead singer for Nickelback.

Extreme for life!
Click to expand...

Gary Cherone to Van Halen is so Kiffin to Tennessee it should be on the ACT in the comparative analogy section.
 
#12
#12
Eddie Vol Halen said:
These recent days of hand-wringing a la Lady Macbeth have been all too nostalgic of the Dooley hire. To be honest, none of us are accustomed to UT coaching turnover (well, a LOT more accusomted now), so it worries me that everything sounds so much like Dooley Redux.

The Stephen Hargis story was the most accurate description to date of what was really happening. Everything post Butch hire has been people toeing a line for the sake of the program.

But as one thread foreshadowed: there will be consequences.
Click to expand...

You can believe that if you want. I'd be interested to see Hargis' sources.

oregonvol said:
Yeah, I like Butch Jones, but what worries me is that the powers-that-be at UT have shown that they absolutely refuse to go out and try to compete with our rivals in terms of coaching hires.

Look at Arkansas (who has never even won an SEC championship). They made public offers to Jon Gruden and Les Miles. They ended up with a young proven winner from a major conference, a guy who took his team to the Rose Bowl in three straight years.

We didn't make a public offer that was in the league with any of those. We could have gone after Chip Kelly or David Shaw or Bo Pelini or Gary Patterson. But instead, we went straight for Charlie Strong? That alone tells me that the AD doesn't care about winning at a high level. We ended up with Jones and I think he's got a chance to be great here one day. But with the uphill battle we've got facing us with recruiting and fan support and our rivals getting better and better, we really needed to try to find someone who has more than a chance, who was more of a sure thing. And Hart didn't even try. And I don't get the sense that the big boosters or the rest of the administration had any problem with that. And that is very worrisome.
Click to expand...

UT's first offer was to Gundy, not Strong. As for going after those coaches, it's amazing people think we didn't put out feelers to gauge interest. If a coach tells you no, you move on.
 
#13
#13
TennesseeOrange said:
Just because you believe it doesn't make it true.
Click to expand...

I have to add that just because just because you choose not to believe the most respected sports journalist in Tennessee does not make it false. :hi:

I wait with great anticipation for the follow-up to his original story.
 
#14
#14
oregonvol said:
We didn't make a public offer that was in the league with any of those. We could have gone after Chip Kelly or David Shaw or Bo Pelini or Gary Patterson. But instead, we went straight for Charlie Strong?
Click to expand...

Key word right there, public.

Not saying it did or didn't happen. But there were a lot of behind the scenes things happening.

Do I believe the contacts with Gruden were more than a mere phone call between Hart and Agent (can't remember name and to lazy to look it up) that ended the way it did? Absolutely. Lot's of smoke there and far too many rumors that coincided with each other in the details for there to just be a single phone call. None of it public, but many believed it happened.

Gundy talks...rumored, never completely denied or confirmed. Not in public eye at all in terms of details.

Strong talks...confirmed sort of. Offer was made, but never any confirmed details of the offer.

There could have been/probably were a lot of contacts made behind the scenes. Hart even said in the Dooley firing PC he was going to go to "friends" for advice in the search. He could have reached out to any number of candidates and been turned down.

And chances are, we will never know exactly how many contacts were made or offers on the table to other high profile coaches which might have turned us down.
 
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#15
#15
UTMBA said:
That's a lot of worry packed into one post.
Click to expand...

I tell you what worries me. I think the money to get CBJ is in jeopardy because if he does really well, every school in the country will be after him. That being said, if he does really sh##@y and gets fired then there is the pile of buyout money. Just a thought.
 
#16
#16
Coach A: 39-8; 2 conference titles in 4 years

Coach B: 42-26-1; 2 in 6 years

Coach C: 50-27; 4 in 6 years

Coach D: 28-21: 0 in 4 years

Coach E: 35-17; 2 in 4 years
 
#19
#19
Eddie Vol Halen said:
I'm really worried about the entire administration at UT. Cheek has not advanced one iota his flagship program, and he seems determined this will affect the athletics program as well.

I'm worried about Dave Hart. I've not liked the way he has gone about his business one bit, although I know some of it had to be done. He was responsible for the most important hire in Tennessee football in over a generation, and I believe the stories that the boosters put Au on an Ag platter for him, but he decided it was going to be his hire no matter what.

I'm worried that because his hire was Butch Jones, that CBJ could define his tenure in two months time. CBJ and team have to completely transform this recruiting class and bring it from #30 to #15 minimum. If he doesn't radically transform this class, I fear it will hamstring his entire tenure. It may not be fair, but Jon Gruden would get time; Butch won't.

I have complex feelings about UT hiring Cincinnati's staff. I can't say it doesn't worry me. I hope CBJ and Co kicks ass and takes names. I really do.

In short, I'm really worried about Tennessee Football.
Click to expand...

you worry to much
 
#20
#20
Eddie Vol Halen said:
These recent days of hand-wringing a la Lady Macbeth have been all too nostalgic of the Dooley hire. To be honest, none of us are accustomed to UT coaching turnover (well, a LOT more accusomted now), so it worries me that everything sounds so much like Dooley Redux.

The Stephen Hargis story was the most accurate description to date of what was really happening. Everything post Butch hire has been people toeing a line for the sake of the program.

But as one thread foreshadowed: there will be consequences.
Click to expand...

Coach Jones has only been hired for about 3 days. He has already accomplished a lot in this short time - assuming Tee is on board. They have contacted quite a few recruits already. I am expecting/hoping for a lot of good news on that front in a relatively short time. If recruiting falls flat, I will be on board with you, but so far it looks like he knows what he is doing.

Feel free to bring this thread back up after signing day. I hope you will get laughed at for worrying so much. If not, we may be in trouble.
 
#21
#21
Wickerhead said:
I tell you what worries me. I think the money to get CBJ is in jeopardy because if he does really well, every school in the country will be after him. That being said, if he does really sh##@y and gets fired then there is the pile of buyout money. Just a thought.
Click to expand...

If coach Jones does really well here, I think he will be compensated enough that he would be difficult to hire away. I am not worried about that at all right now.
 
#22
#22
No matter what anyone says, we are all worried. The fact is Jones has inherited 2 programs completely rebuilt by Brian Kelly. Both were enjoying the best run in either school's history. Both had good skill players in positions as well, thanks to Kelly's recruiting. This job is the exact opposite of those. We are in one of the worst streaks in recent history and no commitments from the top recruits as of yet. With that said, Butch Jones didnt put us in this position. He wasnt our first choice, but we were his. He respects TN's traditions and he knows this is a rare opportunity. He's done well recently so maybe he actually has a clue. I dont know if he will be successful, but he can't make things much worse. I just hope the powers that be give him what he needs to compete.
 
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