When would have been the best decision to pull Milton in retrospect? No fans saying we should just stick with what we know in this thread.

#1
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WhenUrVolUrVFL

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#1
Hello Vol fans.

I like Heupel as a coach. But some decisions he makes are just so….weird.

Like vol coaches before him…instead of what was doing best for the program—they ride a losing QB to the point of diminishing returns.

It was obvious Milton wasn’t the guy years ago. Michigan cut bait. For some reason—we hang on to these guys and let them put us in the position to lose games we should have won with a competent QB.

Obviously we’d be better off getting reps for Nico. When would have been the time to do it?

No one that is going to obliviously say nonsense like “the coaches obviously know what’s best” “Milton was the best choice” or any other pointless, zombie like thinking welcome here. Only people willing to constructively criticize the decision to ride with a guy who makes the team around him worse off.

Milton is a good guy. Bad QB. Makes everyone else around him worse. Bad reads on run options. Overthrows. No consistency. Just a bad QB.
 
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#2
#2
I'll preface my answer by saying I like Joe as a person and I think he works super hard and wants to win. I think he loves this team and loves Tennessee and would do whatever it takes to get the W. Unfortunately, I think he has all the talent in the world and just doesnt quite have the football IQ. Watching some of the plays last night you can just see where he is overthinking to a degree and forcing stuff. Also, go back and watch several plays where he almost immediately went to the check down and missed several wide open seam routes and TE's and WR's running free. Likewise the fumble.....that was a middle school / high school JV error. Fake the handoff and clear.

Granted it was Connecticut, but I did notice Nico doing progressions quickly and kept his eyes up on all his passing plays. ex. the TD pass where he went to scramble and found the check down breaking open. That said, I had high hopes for Milton, I wanted Milton to figure it out and I would have started Milton too this year. Furthermore, I understand riding with him the first few games and re-assuring him "you're our guy......dont look over your shoulder. Just relax and play ball."

However, now that we are simply playing for "bowl seeding" I would probably make it known that we're in a transition phase. I'd actually run a couple series against Georgia with Milton to start, then run a couple with Nico. If Nico looks good, gets a few completions and first downs? Lets keep running with him. I sorta understand not crushing his confidence with UGA, but he seems like an unbelievable competitor #1, and #2 welcome to big boy football. He's been around the program long enough he should be comfortable to go.

Answer: If not after the Florida game? Then I'd ease Nico in this upcoming week for a couple series and see how he does.
 
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#3
#3
I think Joe has evolved into an acceptable QB. Problem is, our WR and OL aren't killing people this year to give Joe some grace. When we match up well w/ other teams...SC/KY/TaM, his play is accretive to a W, but when we don't have good scheme/matchups, he's not good enough to overcome it. Hooker and cast were good enough to overcome our sometimes lacking OL play.
 
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#4
#4
Every coach thinks they can fix a player with physical tools. They all have that ego. Coaches also know how damaging it can be to a players psyche to throw him into the fire before he's ready. No decent coach will want to risk something like that. I know this is hindsight, but they were never going to start Nico unless Milton goes down.
 
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#5
#5
IMO time to start phasing Joe out now but it would not help Nico or the team to throw him out there next Sat. We are not going to have much of a running game against GA and their D would eat him up. Let him get about half the snaps in the last 2 games and some bowl game experience would get him some good PT for next season.
 
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#6
#6
I am gonna be honest, I have no idea. I listen to Dave Hooker quite a bit. Like him or hate him, but he is pretty connected to the program. He has stated all year that people inside the program have said Nico is just not ready to take the reins and be a starter. Not my words, his. I think some people believe that every 5* is just ready to play immediately. That’s simply not the case.

Maybe Nico was ready to play all along and Heupel completely botched the QB situation. Then again maybe Nico hasn’t been ready. Like I said, I honestly have no clue. The only thing I do know is I am extremely excited about t hi is team moving into next year.
 
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#7
#7
BigOrangeTrain said:
I am gonna be honest, I have no idea. I listen to Dave Hooker quite a bit. Like him or hate him, but he is pretty connected to the program. He has stated all year that people inside the program have said Nico is just not ready to take the reins and be a starter. Not my words, his. I think some people believe that every 5* is just ready to play immediately. That’s simply not the case.

Maybe Nico was ready to play all along and Heupel completely botched the QB situation. Then again maybe Nico hasn’t been ready. Like I said, I honestly have no clue. The only thing I do know is I am extremely excited about t hi is team moving into next year.
Click to expand...
Dave Hooker is stupid. He thinks we have leaders on this team. I see none. Hooker knows nothing about football
 
#8
#8
BigOrangeTrain said:
I am gonna be honest, I have no idea. I listen to Dave Hooker quite a bit. Like him or hate him, but he is pretty connected to the program. He has stated all year that people inside the program have said Nico is just not ready to take the reins and be a starter. Not my words, his. I think some people believe that every 5* is just ready to play immediately. That’s simply not the case.

Maybe Nico was ready to play all along and Heupel completely botched the QB situation. Then again maybe Nico hasn’t been ready. Like I said, I honestly have no clue. The only thing I do know is I am extremely excited about t hi is team moving into next year.
Click to expand...
I suspect Nico wasn't ready. It's a huge jump to be sure, but my question is what will make him any more ready next season? The staff just didn't get him the reps he needed this year to give him a bit of a head start on facing the 2024 gauntlet of a schedule. Will practice be enough? Let's not pretend practice can replace actual game speed/conditions so what does this staff do prior to next season? Maybe I just don't understand the plan here, but it seems like he's going to be thrown into the deep end regardless. Just one year later. Maybe the school thing will be settled and he'll be more physically ready, but from a game management standpoint, I'm not sure he'll be much better off than he is right now. Not saying start him vs UGA, but maybe a series or two once the game is out of hand. I'd certainly hope he'd get reps vs Vandy and a huge number of reps in bowl prep.
 
#10
#10
WhenUrVolUrVFL said:
Hello Vol fans.

I like Heupel as a coach. But some decisions he makes are just so….weird.

Like vol coaches before him…instead of what was doing best for the program—they ride a losing QB to the point of diminishing returns.

It was obvious Milton wasn’t the guy years ago. Michigan cut bait. For some reason—we hang on to these guys and let them put us in the position to lose games we should have won with a competent QB.

Obviously we’d be better off getting reps for Nico. When would have been the time to do it?

No one that is going to obliviously say nonsense like “the coaches obviously know what’s best” “Milton was the best choice” or any other pointless, zombie like thinking welcome here. Only people willing to constructively criticize the decision to ride with a guy who makes the team around him worse off.

Milton is a good guy. Bad QB. Makes everyone else around him worse. Bad reads on run options. Overthrows. No consistency. Just a bad QB.
Click to expand...

He is far from bad and far from our worst issues. We simply cannot stop anyone who can compete a forward pass, linebackers are horrendous in pass coverage, outside of White there is no real threat to spread the field after the injury to McCoy, and the oline is ok at run blocking but very inconsistent at best in pass blocking. Replacing Milton with someone who isn’t ready will do absolutely nothing to address the core issues
 
#11
#11
WhenUrVolUrVFL said:
No one that is going to obliviously say nonsense like “the coaches obviously know what’s best” “Milton was the best choice” or any other pointless, zombie like thinking welcome here. Only people willing to constructively criticize the decision to ride with a guy who makes the team around him worse off.
Click to expand...

So in other words, either agree with me or shut up. Damn, sounds like the federal government.
 
#12
#12
Well up until last night there was still a chance, not a good one, but a chance you could still win the east. I dont believe Nico would have given much, if any better chance than Joe given he's a freshman which is why I probably would have held off on pulling him. But I'd definitely look hard at playing him now. The seasons over, you're playing for the future at this point.
 
#15
#15
BigOrangeTrain said:
I am gonna be honest, I have no idea. I listen to Dave Hooker quite a bit. Like him or hate him, but he is pretty connected to the program. He has stated all year that people inside the program have said Nico is just not ready to take the reins and be a starter. Not my words, his. I think some people believe that every 5* is just ready to play immediately. That’s simply not the case.

Maybe Nico was ready to play all along and Heupel completely botched the QB situation. Then again maybe Nico hasn’t been ready. Like I said, I honestly have no clue. The only thing I do know is I am extremely excited about t hi is team moving into next year.
Click to expand...
After the game on his show he more or less said he never believed in Milton and he'd start Nico the rest of the way
 
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#16
#16
We don’t have WRs. Flat out. We have decent guys there but no dudes.

At best swapping to Nico yields the same results.

At worst he does worse.

Either way this whole fanbase would start 2024 saying “start [2nd string freshman]” because we’d have now lost faith in Joe and Nico.

CJH knows he can’t make everyone happy, so I’d say he’s done the right thing. Save the future, stick worth your guy that kept you in the SEC race all season, get some more dudes and give it hell next year.
 
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#18
#18
I would say the real problem is there has been some mismanagement in the qb room. We shouldn't be in a situation where there is only a generally unproven senior with limited snaps coming into the season and a true freshman. Tough situation to be in.
 
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#19
#19
WR core has been a problem and from what I hear, some of the players got injured and thst impacted the team. Injuries on offense across the board have hurt. I am not sure what is going on with the defense though. Still not improving.
 
#20
#20
Milton earned his oppprtunity as a starter, and despite the early season struggles, I think he did enough to warrant keeping his starting position throughout the year.

If there was any time to pull him, I was ready to do it during the Texas A&M game. But the defense kept us in front that whole game, so making a change with the lead didn't quite seem right. Plus, we just lost Bru for the year and the receivers were dropping a lot of passes.

It was then, his performance at the Bama game that reinstilled confidence and showed he could really throw defenses off when he uses his legs to run more. He has played pretty well since then. The Mizzou game looked more like an outlier. Dumb fumbles, penalties, and lack of opportunitues rrally hampered him and the offense.
 
#21
#21
Observations
Offense - We just don't have the same team on offensive as last year.
WR - Hyatt was able to get wide open himself and open up things for others. We have had way too many drops this year that hurts the game calling and a key injury to Bru doesn't help blocking for our receivers, he was a beast
Offensive line - we lost a stud or 2, one went first round, we don't have anyone on OL going in first round this next year in NFL draft. The line has a few new starters, cooper was out, cohesiveness is not the same as last year.
Scheme - new offensive coordinator, he will get better, just want be as good as we had previously that is now a head coach. Takes time

Defense - almost the same as offense, we lack consistency.
DB - key defensive backs have gotten hurt and now we are using some less talented second team players
LBs - need more speed and better anticipation.
DL - we haven't adjusted after a good start. I do think this has been the strength though on defensive side, good effort most series.
Yesterday we couldn't turn it up a notch to stop Missou

Coaching -
Overall, this year we've dropped off some talent level, we cannot put it all on Joe since he really doesn't have the overall talent we had last year or an experienced offensive coordinator. I'm beginning to worry about our defensive coordinator, we knew he didn't have the studs the first 2 years under Heupel , however by year 3 we should be able to make in-game adjustments to stop what the other team is having success doing.

My opinion is that we need to seriously look at our def coordinator and see if we cannot deliver better results come year 4
The 3rd down efficiency of other team is out of hand, not acceptable. Wow we stink we have to have a better stop rate on 3rd down.

I hope in year 4 we improve our teams talent deficiencies and seriously consider if we need a change in direction on defense?
Go vols, we can get where we want to be, minor tweaks are needed.
 
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#23
#23
WhenUrVolUrVFL said:
Hello Vol fans.

I like Heupel as a coach. But some decisions he makes are just so….weird.

Like vol coaches before him…instead of what was doing best for the program—they ride a losing QB to the point of diminishing returns.

It was obvious Milton wasn’t the guy years ago. Michigan cut bait. For some reason—we hang on to these guys and let them put us in the position to lose games we should have won with a competent QB.

Obviously we’d be better off getting reps for Nico. When would have been the time to do it?

No one that is going to obliviously say nonsense like “the coaches obviously know what’s best” “Milton was the best choice” or any other pointless, zombie like thinking welcome here. Only people willing to constructively criticize the decision to ride with a guy who makes the team around him worse off.

Milton is a good guy. Bad QB. Makes everyone else around him worse. Bad reads on run options. Overthrows. No consistency. Just a bad QB.
Click to expand...

Milton should have stayed the starter as long as we contended for the East. After that, the season is lost. I do not care where the schedule falls at that point. Now that we aren’t playing for the division or a NY6 game, the bowl game is pretty meaningless as any of the bowls we play in will be crap.

I was and am not one of those morons who thinks Milton should have been yanked because we didn’t win by a bigger margin over teams. This was and will always be a transition year Post Hendon. Was always going to be a season of ugly wins and losses.
 
#24
#24
There was never a right time because Milton is and will continue being QB1. We should stick with what we know and not cause damage to the future leader of our program because of Monday Morning Quarterbacks that make up 99% of VN message boards.
 
#25
#25
TeacherVol007 said:
There was never a right time because Milton is and will continue being QB1. We should stick with what we know and not cause damage to the future leader of our program because of Monday Morning Quarterbacks that make up 99% of VN message boards.
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What irreversible damage could be done to Nico by him playing that is somehow only possible with him being on the field? I know you’re not naive enough to say there is some danger to him that isn’t present with anyone who steps on the field to play…

Nico is destined to be a failure if he is treated like some fragile head case than he has to be teed up for cupcakes before any actual competition.

If the fear is a career ending injury, why even play the game….
 
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