Where Oh Where is the ACLU?

[OrangeEmpire]

Muslim prayers in schools

A San Diego public school has become part of a national debate over religion in schools ever since a substitute teacher publicly condemned an Arabic language program that gives Muslim students time for prayer during school hours.

Carver Elementary in Oak Park added Arabic to its curriculum in September when it suddenly absorbed more than 100 students from a defunct charter school that had served mostly Somali Muslims.

After subbing at Carver, the teacher claimed that religious indoctrination was taking place and said that a school aide had led Muslim students in prayer.

Among the critics is Richard Thompson, president and chief counsel with the nonprofit, Michigan-based Thomas More Law Center devoted to “defending the religious freedom of Christians.”

He said he's “against double standards being used,” such as when there is a specific period for Muslim students to pray and not a similar arrangement for Christians.

Carver's supporters noted that Christianity and other religions, unlike Islam, do not require their followers to pray at specific times that fall within school hours, when children by law must be in school. Amid the controversy, the district is studying alternatives to the break to accommodate student prayer.

Capitalizing on what it considers a precedent-setting opportunity created by the Carver situation, the Sacramento-based Pacific Justice Institute has offered to help craft a districtwide “Daily Prayer Time Policy.”

]In a letter, the religious-rights organization urged the district to broaden its accommodations to Christians and Jews by setting aside separate classrooms for daily prayer and to permit rabbis, priests and other religious figures to lead children in worship on campuses.

A lawyer representing the district said those ideas would violate the Constitution's prohibition against government establishment of religion.

So accommodation for the Muslims doesn’t seem to “violate the Constitution's prohibition against government establishment of religion.” But “accommodations to Christians and Jews” somehow would.

Anyone know how this works?

And let’s not forget this is going on:

The uproar over Carver comes as schools across the country grapple with how to accommodate growing Muslim populations. In recent weeks, the University of Michigan's Dearborn campus has been divided over using student fees to install foot-washing stations on campus to make it easier for Muslim students to cleanse themselves before prayer.

Not too surprisingly:

The San Diego chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations supports the Carver program.

“Our country is transforming demographically, religiously,” said Edgar Hopida, the chapter's public relations director. “Our country has to now accommodate things that are not traditionally accounted for before.”

While at the same time NOT accommodating that which WAS traditionally accounted for before.

It would seem to me that several things are becoming clear:

The removal of the majority’s religion from public schools… as not to offend was a sham.

Now any religion can be somehow accommodated except the majority’s

The ACLU has, by their inaction in these cases, moved from being suspected of Christian bigotry to it being proven. “We’ll defend anyone who is not Christian and go after anyone that is”

I have no problem with any school setting aside a place for kids to pray on their own.

But if they're setting aside a place for Muslims, they should be ready to set aside a place for every and any religion.

Good in theory, but they can run out of spaces to set aside rather quickly. There's a lot of religions out there.

Allowing prayer in schools isn't the first and last step on the slippery slope to becoming some kind of Talibanesque mideval theocracy.

Thoughts?

 

[Teddyhead]

The way our backward country is run nowadays it's totally ok for Muslims to basically do whatever they want. We still can't even call terrorists Muslims without being called racist, even though all of the ones that are attacking us are. The notion that islamofacism is just some made up word to provoke fear is a joke. These people are waging a world war against us! Another case of our country giving our enemies more rights, freedoms and privileges than the native populace.

 

[MG1968]

just toss a ham sandwich in there...

 

[CSpindizzy]

On the flipside, certain people claim to want religion involved in government but only if it is Christian. A Hindu led the prayer before the Senate yesterday morning only to be shouted down for that being an abomination for taking place. Do they REALLY want religious freedom and religion/prayers in government or do they only want one religion included?

 

[CSpindizzy]

The way our backward country is run nowadays it's totally ok for Muslims to basically do whatever they want. We still can't even call terrorists Muslims without being called racist, even though all of the ones that are attacking us are. The notion that islamofacism is just some made up word to provoke fear is a joke. These people are waging a world war against us! Another case of our country giving our enemies more rights, freedoms and privileges than the native populace.

You say that as if every Muslim is a terrorist and is attacking us. That is not the case. Just as every religion has its fanatics and nuts we have to deal with those in this particular one as well.

 

[volinbham]

It certainly appears that the ACLU is more focused on Christianity than it is on other religions - likely because it is the majority religion and they are so concerned with protecting the rights of minority viewpoints.

That said, it appears they go after any hint of government/religion connection when it is Christianity but can find reasons to not pursue similar situations when another religion is involved.

Some consistency would be nice since they claim to be defending civil liberties of all (not just some).

 

[g8terh8ter_eric]

It certainly appears that the ACLU is more focused on Christianity than it is on other religions - likely because it is the majority religion and they are so concerned with protecting the rights of minority viewpoints.

That said, it appears they go after any hint of government/religion connection when it is Christianity but can find reasons to not pursue similar situations when another religion is involved.

Some consistency would be nice since they claim to be defending civil liberties of all (not just some).

The ACLU is a more useless organization that the UN. I mean these people use American in their acronym, but defend non-american's rights. Just doesn't make any sense.

 

[CSpindizzy]

So it seems both extremes are more focused on Christianity solely.

 

[g8terh8ter_eric]

So it seems both extremes are more focused on Christianity solely.

Muslims want to kill Christians and Jews, and the ACLU is defending the Muslims and condemning anything Christians and Jews want to do in a public display of Faith. :question: . Do I detect a conspiracy theory brewing??

 

[CSpindizzy]

And don't forget the ACLU is that "evil liberal godless Jew lawyer group trying to undermine our Christian nation"....

 

[Teddyhead]

On the flipside, certain people claim to want religion involved in government but only if it is Christian. A Hindu led the prayer before the Senate yesterday morning only to be shouted down for that being an abomination for taking place. Do they REALLY want religious freedom and religion/prayers in government or do they only want one religion included?

Thanks for making my point CS. As long as it isn’t anything involving Christianity it is more than ok. What a fraud the ACLU is. I bet if they had been around during WWII they would have sought to have all the Nazi war criminals pardoned and given amnesty on some tropical island filled with virgins. The ACLU needs to be forcibly disbanded and the leaders prosecuted for high treason.:clap::yes:

 

[Teddyhead]

You say that as if every Muslim is a terrorist and is attacking us. That is not the case. Just as every religion has its fanatics and nuts we have to deal with those in this particular one as well.

No, I said it as if ALL the terrorists attacking us are Muslim, which 99.9999% of them are. Wake up man, where were you on 9/11?:bad::no:

 

[Teddyhead]

Muslims want to kill Christians and Jews, and the ACLU is defending the Muslims and condemning anything Christians and Jews want to do in a public display of Faith. :question: . Do I detect a conspiracy theory brewing??

:yes: :clap: Amen brother!:thumbsup:

 

[CSpindizzy]

You obviously missed MY point. Christian activists have been harping about how religion needs to be allowed more in everyday society including government. But when religion IS allowed and NOT Christianity, those same activists are up in arms about abomination, Christian founding, etc. We want Bibles for people to swear on but if a Muslim prefers a Koran, nope. So the argument needs to be redefined.

Do you want RELIGION more a part of our society OR just CHRISTIANITY a part of our society? It seems people call for the broad term but when something beyond their own beliefs comes in under that broad term there's a backlash.

 

[CSpindizzy]

No, I said it as if ALL the terrorists attacking us are Muslim, which 99.9999% of them are. Wake up man, where were you on 9/11?:bad::no:

So are you discounting all of the other domestic terrorists here as well?

 

[Teddyhead]

You obviously missed MY point. Christian activists have been harping about how religion needs to be allowed more in everyday society including government. But when religion IS allowed and NOT Christianity, those same activists are up in arms about abomination, Christian founding, etc. We want Bibles for people to swear on but if a Muslim prefers a Koran, nope. So the argument needs to be redefined.

Do you want RELIGION more a part of our society OR just CHRISTIANITY a part of our society? It seems people call for the broad term but when something beyond their own beliefs comes in under that broad term there's a backlash.

I don't want any religion in government, but if there is to be any, it should be Christian. The religion of the majority. Talk to me in 10 yrs when the radical islamo fascists have acquired a dirty bomb and level half of some major American city.

 

[CSpindizzy]

I don't want any religion in government, but if there is to be any, it should be Christian. The religion of the majority. Talk to me in 10 yrs when the radical islamo fascists have acquired a dirty bomb and level half of some major American city.

You don't want ANY but yet you've picked one out to be the only one? Sounds fair. So whatever the majority is, that is law? Do me a favor and read the Constitution and the Federalist Papers. Majority does not always rule in our nation my friend.

 

[Teddyhead]

So are you discounting all of the other domestic terrorists here as well?

Yeah, and aside from Timothy McVeigh when did they really ever do anything? If we wanted to crush them we could. These radical islamists are the real threats. They want to murder you and your family CS. Do you really not believe that? They would be happy to torture and murder your wife and baby in front of you in the name of Jihad and they wouldn’t think twice about it. I feel very concerned for the future of our country when someone from Tennessee is talking like you. :sad:

 

[CSpindizzy]

Yeah, and aside from Timothy McVeigh when did they really ever do anything? If we wanted to crush them we could. These radical islamists are the real threats. They want to murder you and your family CS. Do you really not believe that? They would be happy to torture and murder your wife and baby in front of you in the name of Jihad and they wouldn’t think twice about it. I feel very concerned for the future of our country when someone from Tennessee is talking like you. :sad:

Keep in mind how many Muslims (19) took control of planes and caused 9/11. How many Muslims are in this country? How many Muslims here in this country have orchestrated attacks? How many 'patriotic' Americans have orchestrated attacks on our own country? How many on the extreme right and left have carried out attacks in our country? Shall we round up the extremists nuts? Well maybe that would not be so bad...

 

[Teddyhead]

You don't want ANY but yet you've picked one out to be the only one? Sounds fair. So whatever the majority is, that is law? Do me a favor and read the Constitution and the Federalist Papers. Majority does not always rule in our nation my friend.

I want no religion, none, in government. So why is a Hindu trying to read a prayer to congress? Where was the ACLU outrage? You really think the founding fathers would approve the way this country is today? If they had any idea these radicals like the ACLU would twist the constitution to enslave us to their ideological maelstroms they would never have broken off from the crown!

 

[Teddyhead]

Keep in mind how many Muslims (19) took control of planes and caused 9/11. How many Muslims are in this country? How many Muslims here in this country have orchestrated attacks? How many 'patriotic' Americans have orchestrated attacks on our own country? How many on the extreme right and left have carried out attacks in our country? Shall we round up the extremists nuts? Well maybe that would not be so bad...

Did you see that recent poll which showed something like 26% of so called "American Muslims" support Jihad and suicide bombing? Even if it KILLS brave American soldiers?

 

[allvol123]

opcorn:

 

[CSpindizzy]

I want no religion, none, in government. So why is a Hindu trying to read a prayer to congress? Where was the ACLU outrage? You really think the founding fathers would approve the way this country is today? If they had any idea these radicals like the ACLU would twist the constitution to enslave us to their ideological maelstroms they would never have broken off from the crown!

How do you know they are not objecting to it? Perhaps they've already foguth that battle and lost and have let this go. Since you haven't heard them argue all of the other prayers at the start of each day wouldn't it make sense to not hear anything about that day as well?

What exactly are you referring to on how this country is today?

 

[CSpindizzy]

Did you see that recent poll which showed something like 26% of so called "American Muslims" support Jihad and suicide bombing? Even if it KILLS brave American soldiers?

Did you see the results of anyone carrying out those wishes? How many suicide bombings have we seen here?

Polls show a 0% for that answer.

 

[allvol123]

Did you see the results of anyone carrying out those wishes? How many suicide bombings have we seen here?

Polls show a 0% for that answer.

Well I would say you did see some on 09/11/01.