Where should Tennessee be ranked, ALL-TIME, among College Football Programs?

#1

Volosaurus rex

Doctorate in Volology
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#1
Some forum threads pose topics that can be debated passionately, endlessly and, ultimately, without resolution. For example, the thread entitled “Vol uniform/helmet design discussion,” pits strident advocates of radical stylistic innovation vs. staunch traditionalists. I would like to pose the following question, one that I suspect will evoke an enormous schism between generations, for your consideration:

Among the traditional powers of college football, precisely where do you believe Tennessee’s program should be ranked?

This question does not pertain to the last 5-10 years, the last 25 years or any other arbitrary time frame. Rather, it implies historical comparison over the entire histories of programs considered to be traditional powers. Programs recognized in this category are so designated because they have enjoyed higher and longer periods of sustained excellence and shorter and less severe “valleys” in their respective histories. Oregon, for example, is unquestionably a top-5 program right now but does not deserve mention in this category because of the brevity of their status as an apex program.

Since true objectivity does not correlate strongly with fandom, I also concluded that external insights, specifically ones derived from data compiled by Richard Billingsley, would provide an excellent starting point. For those of you not familiar with his work, Richard Billingsley operates the website, “College Football Research Center” (Home), and provides one of the computer ranking services that are part of the BCS Selection process. Here is a link to Billingsley’s ranking of the top programs of all-time: http://www.cfrc.com/Archives/Top_Programs_2011.htm.

Personally, I believe that he correctly identified the top 9 programs of all-time. He has us ranked 9th overall, right behind USC, and I cannot argue that the programs he has ranked ahead of us don't deserve to be there, based primarily on the number of national championships that they have won, respectively. I wouldn’t rank Michigan 2nd all-time and I am a bit surprised that he has Georgia 10th. Moreover, I find it difficult to reconcile the discrepancy between his rankings for Florida State (12th), Florida (20th) and Miami (27th), considering the fact that all three programs essentially came of age as major powers during the mid 1980s. For those of you who may be interested, here is a link to his methodology: http://www.cfrc.com/Archives/Dynamics_08.htm. Be forewarned, however, that this data is more directly relevant to seasonal rankings than all-time program comparisons.

In any event, where do you think that Tennessee should be ranked, ALL-TIME, among college football programs?
 
#5
#5
I certainly commend your partisanship. They unquestionably are #1 in our hearts and minds. I was looking, however, for analyses, which, hopefully, will be of particular value to our younger fans in contextualizing the achievements of our beloved Vols. Nevertheless, it is good to see that those who wear their love of the Big Orange as a badge of honor on their shirt sleeves are jumping to the forefront of this discussion as opposed to the Negavol contingent.
 
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#7
#7
It's hard to not say Top 10, but I'd say 11-15. In no particular order, Michigan, Notre Dame, Alabama, USC, Oklahoma, Texas, Florida State, Florida, LSU, Nebraska, off the top of my head might be a little better than us. Tennessee, Georgia, Auburn are all right together.

Edit: I forgot Ohio State in there. I'm sure some more. So I'd say #12 or #13 in the Country.
 
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#8
#8
It's hard to not say Top 10, but I'd say 11-15. In no particular order, Michigan, Notre Dame, Alabama, USC, Oklahoma, Texas, Florida State, Florida, LSU, Nebraska, off the top of my head might be a little better than us. Tennessee, Georgia, Auburn are all right together.

Edit: I forgot Ohio State in there. I'm sure some more. So I'd say #12 or #13 in the Country.

Historically, Tennessee has been more successful than Georgia, Auburn, and LSU. Florida and Florida State, historically is not even close to Tennessee.
 
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#9
#9
Florida State and Florida have, without question, been more consistently strong over the last 30 years but remember that the question is "All-time." I understand the human tendency is to place greater credence on the immediate past but that isn't necessarily the best overall barometer of historical success.
 
#11
#11
It's hard to not say Top 10, but I'd say 11-15. In no particular order, Michigan, Notre Dame, Alabama, USC, Oklahoma, Texas, Florida State, Florida, LSU, Nebraska, off the top of my head might be a little better than us. Tennessee, Georgia, Auburn are all right together.

Edit: I forgot Ohio State in there. I'm sure some more. So I'd say #12 or #13 in the Country.

UT has double the history of Florida and LSU.
 
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#12
#12
Tennessee is in the top 5 - 10 in just about any category you can come up with. Total wins, winning percentage, bowl games, Bowl wins, stadium size, All-Americans, Hall of Fame members, players in the NFL, etc.

The schools that show up the most in almost any Top 10 list are
Tennessee Alabama Nebraska Oklahoma Southern Cal Penn State Michigan Ohio State Notre Dame & Texas.

Programs like Florida Florida State Oregon Texas A&M theyre newbies -...Johnny-come-latelys!
 
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#13
#13
Tennessee is in the top 5 - 10 in just about any category you can come up with. Total wins, winning percentage, bowl games, Bowl wins, stadium size, All-Americans, Hall of Fame members, players in the NFL, etc.

The schools that show up the most in almost any Top 10 list are
Tennessee Alabama Nebraska Oklahoma Southern Cal Penn State Michigan Ohio State & Texas

Tennessee...second in the SEC in every conceivable category. Irritates the hell out of me.
 
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#14
#14
Florida has the lead on us for all-time series, so I would rank them over us. We might still be slightly above LSU. Still above Florida State and Auburn. Still would have us ranked over UF and possibly Michigan had it not been for the last 5 disgusting, despicable, embarrassing years
 
#15
#15
Historically, Tennessee has been more successful than Georgia, Auburn, and LSU. Florida and Florida State, historically is not even close to Tennessee.

Correct. Alabama is unquestionably preeminent among Southern powers but even they predate us, as a regional and/or national power, by only a few years. Billingsley retroactively declared them National Champions for 1925 and 1926. Neyland upset the Tide in his first attempt (1928), 15-13, and established Tennessee as a legitimate threat to regional supremacy.
 
#16
#16
Florida has the lead on us for all-time series, so I would rank them over us. We might still be slightly above LSU. Still above Florida State and Auburn. Still would have us ranked over UF and possibly Michigan had it not been for the last 5 disgusting, despicable, embarrassing years

Florida is UF. And no, Florida is not even close to being over us. Head to head wins is one of dozens of things to consider, almost all of which we have UF beat in. The only team in the SEC that we are behind is Alabama. It's not even really an argument, it's teams outside the SEC that are open for discussion.
 
#17
#17
Number 5. We have won more SEC titles than any school not named Alabama and have beaten that same Alabama team more than any other program in the country. Further we are one of only two programs in Division 1 to never lose more than seven games in a season. The other is Ohio State. Even the mighty Notre Dames, Alabama's, Michigan's, and Oklahoma's cannot not claim that. With that said I would place Michigan at 6 the others can fall in front of us where they will. GBO!!!!
 
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#18
#18
Florida has the lead on us for all-time series, so I would rank them over us. We might still be slightly above LSU. Still above Florida State and Auburn. Still would have us ranked over UF and possibly Michigan had it not been for the last 5 disgusting, despicable, embarrassing years

In about 60 years, Fla will be where we are now. It took them from 1933 to 1991 to win an SEC FB championship.
 
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#20
#20
Depressingly, we're the only school in Billingsley's top 10 not to have produced a Heismann winner. I think Georgia Tech is the only other one in the top 20 without a HTW.
 
#22
#22
Number 5. We have won more SEC titles than any school not named Alabama and have beaten that same Alabama team more than any other program in the country. Further we are one of only two programs in Division 1 to never lose more than seven games in a season. The other is Ohio State. Even the mighty Notre Dames, Alabama's, Michigan's, and Oklahoma's cannot not claim that. With that said I would place Michigan at 6 the others can fall in front of us where they will. GBO!!!!

To further expound upon your point, what do Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, USC, Michigan and Ohio State have in common? All of them have dominated conferences in which, historically, they have rarely had more than one serious threat to their supremacy.

By contrast, Tennessee has achieved its stature against Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, Georgia Tech, LSU, Florida and Ole Miss, all of whom are or have been serious contenders on the SEC and national stage.
 
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#23
#23
I'm sure I could look this up, but perhaps one of you might tell me. If Florida has been in the SEC for 78 years (since 1933) why have we only played them 42 times?
 
#24
#24
Florida has the lead on us for all-time series, so I would rank them over us. We might still be slightly above LSU. Still above Florida State and Auburn. Still would have us ranked over UF and possibly Michigan had it not been for the last 5 disgusting, despicable, embarrassing years

We only started playing them consistently in the 90s. That's really not a good benchmark.

Remember, they cheated their way through the 80s and only rose to prominence post-Spurrier.
 

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