Where should Tennessee be ranked, ALL-TIME, among College Football Programs?

[Volosaurus rex]

I can certainly understand the sentiment, but it is hard to justify objectively. Michigan is the winningest program of all time, both in terms of winning pct. (.73570) and wins (895). See I-A Winning Percentage 1869-2011. Now, if you want to nitpick, you can criticize them for having won no more national championships than us since 1948.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

30 years? Don't be so modest Larry. The gators sucked right on up until 'bout 20 years ago. I was on the 30 yard line the night we beat spurrier 45-10 and it didn't even seem like a big deal then. Same feeling as beating ole miss. That was 1990 I think?

Yep, UT crushed us in '90...ditto for '92. Since then, UF's won 8 out of the last 10 games at Neyland.

But why stop at 1990 with your time machine?

UF played UT twice in the 80s and won both games. We split 4 games in the 70s, and UF won the only meeting in the 60s. UT won the first 10 games in our series. Since 1954, UT is 9-23 against UF.

So like another poster said, our championship history starts in the 90s, but we weren't exactly chopped liver before then.

 

[Boca Vol]

You do realize until the 90s it was very rare that teams played more than 10-11 games. Couple that with until 1910ish on teams didn't even play double digit games in a season. But continue to skew stats to serve your agenda by trivializing UTs history. Truth is Florida's tradition couldn't hold Tennessee's jock.

Who is skewing stats? What is UT's all-time winning percentage? Be it a 10, 11, or 12 game season it doesn't matter. It's around 67-68% as are most programs in the top 10. Like I said, there's something for longevity.

 

[Backwards K]

Tennessee didn't get serious about football until 1926 when the General took over. Since that time, they are 3rd in all time victories and 4th in winning percentage.

All time, this is a arguably a top 5 program and at least top 10 when you consider winning, facilities, money, fans, etc.

Just goes to show you how inept Mike Hamilton was to put the program in its current shape in less than five years.

 

[sanddune50]

I happen to be a UT fan but I tend to look at these things from a business approach. When looking at past results, its important to understand how and why the success or lack thereof occurred and what the competitive landscape was at that time compared to today. From a facilities and spending standpoint, UT is doing nearly everything possible to keep itself in the upper tier of college football. The competitive landscape is greater than ever. Going forward I see UT winning the SEC once every ten years or so and making a couple of BCS bowls every decade as well.

We'll see. If we are in on 4 and 5 star recruits with the worst 4 year stretch in the programs existance, how easy will it be to recruit kids with one 8 or 9 win season? Point is it won't, minus Bama our combination of facilities and tradition makes Knoxville an easy sale for kids to come play football. Not to mention, UT is tied for the most pro bowlers in the NFL this year. I'm sure a stat not lost on CBJ and crew.

 

[99gator]

Tennessee didn't get serious about football until 1926 when the General took over. Since that time, they are 3rd in all time victories and 4th in winning percentage.

All time, this is a arguably a top 5 program and at least top 10 when you consider winning, facilities, money, fans, etc.

Just goes to show you how inept Mike Hamilton was to put the program in its current shape in less than five years.

And this is where you all begin to go overboard with the history thing.

Tennessee is not a top 5 program since integration. Not close.

One could make an argument they aren't top 5 in the sec since integration.

So, mike Hamilton was not too swift, but this isn't 1950 anymore

 

[sanddune50]

Who is skewing stats? What is UT's all-time winning percentage? Be it a 10, 11, or 12 game season it doesn't matter. It's around 67-68% as are most programs in the top 10. Like I said, there's something for longevity.

So by your rationale, no team in college football is much more than a '7 or 8 win team' seeing as though the top team in winning percentage is 73%. Or does that make Notre Dame historically a '8 or 9 win team'?

 

[Boca Vol]

So by your rationale, no team in college football is much more than a '7 or 8 win team' seeing as though the top team in winning percentage is 73%. Or does that make Notre Dame historically a '8 or 9 win team'?

That's not my rationale, dipsh&t....those are facts. Go look up UT's winning percentage and get back to me. Until then go hide some gerbils!

 

[sanddune50]

And this is where you all begin to go overboard with the history thing.

Tennessee is not a top 5 program since integration. Not close.

One could make an argument they aren't top 5 in the sec since integration.

So, mike Hamilton was not too swift, but this isn't 1950 anymore

So we are cherry picking 'integration' now? So football didn't count before then?

 

[Lawrence Wright]

If we're talking all-time, UT is in the Top 10 without question.

All-time in the SEC, UT is only looking up at Alabama.

 

[sanddune50]

That's not my rationale, dipsh&t....those are facts. Go look up UT's winning percentage and get back to me. Until then go hide some gerbils!

You questioning anyone's intelligence after looking borderline mentally challenged on this topic several times is laughable.

As for the gerbils, not into that. Must be something more common in your neck of the woods, along with trailer parks, jorts, mullets, and inbreeding. Say what's up to your uncle dad for me.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

My heavens.

 

[99gator]

So we are cherry picking 'integration' now? So football didn't count before then?

No, that's not what I am doing.

I am simply stating that Tennessee is a top 10 program all time.

However, people working right now are dealing with circumstances of right now.

Hamilton didn't help, but this is a different time.

If things were as they were, beating Florida wouldn't be a problem for Tennessee.

But, it's a rather big problem. Beating other conference opponents has been a big problem since integration as well

 

[Volosaurus rex]

Who is skewing stats? What is UT's all-time winning percentage? Be it a 10, 11, or 12 game season it doesn't matter. It's around 67-68% as are most programs in the top 10. Like I said, there's something for longevity.

Yes, when you take the ebb and flow of all programs into consideration, an endless succession of 7-3 seasons, although many would consider such a record "mediocre," would put you squarely in the Top Ten of all time.

 

[Boca Vol]

Yes, when you take the ebb and flow of all programs into consideration, an endless succession of 7-3 seasons, although many would consider such a record "mediocre," would put you squarely in the Top Ten of all time.

Thank you, rex. You get it. Over the long haul, 67-68% will pile up a lot of wins. People seem to think UT has historically won 9-10 games per year. That's simply not true.

That's not diminishing UT's place among college football greats, as most of the top 10 have about the same winning percentage.

 

[UTwild82]

Notre Dame, Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan, Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, USC, Penn State, and Tennessee would be my top ten. Not necessarily in that order.

 

[Boca Vol]

You questioning anyone's intelligence after looking borderline mentally challenged on this topic several times is laughable.

As for the gerbils, not into that. Must be something more common in your neck of the woods, along with trailer parks, jorts, mullets, and inbreeding. Say what's up to your uncle dad for me.

Considering I was born at Baptist Hospital in Knoxville, grew up in Lenoir City, and I'm an alumnus of UT...who are you making fun of?

 

[Lawrence Wright]

Yes, when you take the ebb and flow of all programs into consideration, an endless succession of 7-3 seasons, although many would consider such a record "mediocre," would put you squarely in the Top Ten of all time.

Isn't that how Michigan got to where they are all-time? Seems to me like they strung together decades of 7-9 wins a season, back when teams only played 10 or 11 regular season games.

 

[Boca Vol]

Isn't that how Michigan got to where they are all-time? Seems to me like they strung together decades of 7-9 wins a season.

You are correct. Michigan has about 100 more wins than UT but a lot of UT fans wouldn't put them above UT...mostly because of a bowl game 11 years ago.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

You are correct. Michigan has about 100 more wins than UT but a lot of UT fans wouldn't put them above UT...mostly because of a bowl game 11 years ago.

Gotcha...I edited my post, because back in the day teams played no more than 11 regular season games.

It's easy to bash Michigan for winning only 1/2 of a national title since the late 1940s, but they've been consistently good for a LONG time.

 

[Volosaurus rex]

Thank you, rex. You get it. Over the long haul, 67-68% will pile up a lot of wins. People seem to think UT has historically won 9-10 games per year. That's simply not true.

That's not diminishing UT's place among college football greats, as most of the top 10 have about the same winning percentage.

Yes, but nobody, absolutely nobody, wins in excess of 80% for an indefinite period of time. Even the very best programs go through peaks and valleys, ones that, over the course of history, balance out to a 70% winning percentage being the hallmark of a "traditional" power. Notre Dame, for example, ranks 1st in winning pct. (.82566) from 1900-1950 (see I-A Winning Percentage 1900-1950) and 12th (.67192 winning pct.) from 1950-2011 (see I-A Winning Percentage 1950-2011). It makes you wonder just how happy NBC is, in retrospect, for signing a contract for exclusive broadcast rights with the Irish.

 

[Volosaurus rex]

As someone born in 1956, I would say that Michigan's overall degree of success has, since then, mirrored Tennessee's almost perfectly. Michigan, however, became a "national" power, such as the scope of college football can be defined back then, much earlier than Tennessee or Alabama. Their greatest period of success was from 1900-1950, when they were second in winning pct. (.77662. See I-A Winning Percentage 1900-1950), and they won national championships, either via polls or retroactively by mathematical services, in 1902, 1918, 1923, 1933, 1947, and 1948. See, for example, http://www.cfrc.com/Archives/NC_Team_2011.htm .

 

[Boca Vol]

Rex, that's a pretty cool site you put a link to. I asked the question earlier today about what the rankings would look like since 1960 (roughly the time of integration) and they look like (by winning percentage):

1 Nebraska 0.77655 487 138 6 631
2 Boise State 0.77460 243 70 2 315
3 Ohio State 0.75680 440 138 10 588
4 Alabama 0.73471 441 157 7 605
5 Oklahoma 0.73420 448 159 10 617
6 Texas 0.72964 444 162 8 614
7 Michigan 0.72397 433 162 10 605
8 Southern Cal 0.71381 421 164 16 601
9 Florida 0.69125 421 185 11 617
10 Florida State 0.68242 404 184 15 603
11 Tennessee 0.68182 412 188 16 616
12 Georgia 0.68056 409 188 15 612
13 Penn State 0.68028 340 159 3 502
14 Auburn 0.67798 405 190 9 604
15 Notre Dame 0.67279 399 192 8 599
16 Louisiana State 0.66557 399 197 14 610
17 Miami-Florida 0.65807 394 204 3 601
18 Arkansas 0.65461 393 205 10 608
19 Brigham Young 0.64366 399 220 4 623
20 Arizona State 0.63767 375 212 5 592

 

[Volosaurus rex]

Yes, stassen.com (STASSEN.COM) really is a great site for instantaneously generating any kind of chronological comparison you could conceivably want. It also allows you, in the search parameters, to weed out teams, such as Boise State for the period that you specified, that were not Division I-A members for the entire period or at least the vast majority of it.

 

[Volosaurus rex]

BocaVol, If you really want to assess the nationwide effect of integration on the college football landscape, I would reset the parameters of your search to begin with 1970. Obviously, the process had begun in the north much earlier. Jim Brown, Ernie Davis and Floyd Little, for example, were at Syracuse during the mid 1950s and 1960s. Lester McClain, however, was the first African-American football player in the SEC, beginning in 1968, if memory serves me correctly. Alabama didn’t get the message until 1970, when a 135-yard, 2-touchdown performance by Sam “Bam” Cunningham propelled USC to a 42-21 victory over the Tide on Sept. 12th, in Birmingham. Jerry Claiborne, a former Bryant assistant, said that "Sam Cunningham did more to integrate Alabama in 60 minutes than Martin Luther King did in 20 years" (Sam Cunningham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). As a point of fact, Wilbur Jackson was then on scholarship at Alabama but ineligible to play as a true freshman.