Where Tennessee talent stacks up in SEC...

#1
bleedingTNorange

bleedingTNorange

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#1
I started a thread about lack of talent maybe being the issue, and I listed the rankings all our players had coming out of high school. Many seem to think we have a very talented team, so I took the time to look at all the teams in the SEC. I took every player from every team in the SEC that plays more than 10 minutes for their respective team and found their ranking coming out of high school.

Now, I'm fully aware that stars aren't everything, but they do matter. Sure, you get your Lofton's and Smith's, but if you sign more 4 & 5 stars your chances of success are much higher than signing 2 & 3 stars.

With that said, here's how the SEC stacks up purely by talent rankings of players who play 10+ minutes a game for their team.

Team will be listed and along side will be their average player ranking.

1. Kentucky 4.13
2. Alabama 4.0
3. Florida 3.9
4. Arkansas 3.7
5. Missouri 3.6
6. Ole Miss 3.5
7. Tennessee 3.4
8. Texas A&M 3.3
9. Vanderbilt 3.3
10. South Carolina 3.2
11. Georgia 3.1
12. Auburn 3.0
13. LSU 3.0
14. Mississippi State 2.9




Now, is the roster the responsibility of Coach Martin? Absolutely, this is his program and ultimately he is responsible for all facets of the program, and that includes recruiting and the roster. However, having Maymon would put Tennessee's average at about 3.7, big difference. The good news, if the roster turns out next year like it appears it will, Tennessee's average will be around 3.8-3.9.

Just thought I'd share.
 
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#4
#4
I probably have been guilty of thinking we do have a lot of talent and this obviously shows that our talent is actually right where we are probably going to finish in the SEC.

However IMO, there are only 2 ways to succeed in college basketball. The Bluechip Method (See UK, UNC, Duke, Ohio St. UCONN, NC State at least currently, Baylor), which is of course to stack as many 4 and 5 stars as possible and hope they live up to their rankings. Or you have the Coach 'Em Up or "System" method (see Butler, VCU, Gonzaga, Xavier, etc.), which is to find "system" players or 2-3 stars (with an occasional 4 star) and coach them to play above their rankings as individuals and as a team.

Some teams can succeed with a combination of this having 1-2 4-5 stars and 8-9 system guys and this seems to be what Cuonzo is trying to pull of. However this is probably the most difficult as typically 4-5 stars want to play with other 4-5 stars. Additionally the development of 4-5 star players can be hindered by practicing everyday against 2-3 star players. At this point Cuonzo is struggling to make his "system" players run the system and his 4-5 star talent is not developing well at all and in some cases (Golden) regressing.

IMO at Tennessee the Coach 'Em Up method or some combination will not work. Our NCAA hopes will always be pinned on our SEC record. The good teams in the SEC will have 4-5 star talent. These teams will play us every year which will limit any advantage that the System will bring as they will know it backwards and forwards. In the SEC or any BCS conference you are going to have to at least match talent 1-5 (except UK which NOBODY can match right now) AND run your system successfully. As of now Cuonzo has not shown to be capable, but it is still early. I as much as anybody want to see Yemi, Reese, Edwards, Chevious, Landry, AJ Davis, Washpun, Miller succeed, but the truth of the matter is these guys cannot match up with BCS level talent night in and night out. Cuonzo's recruiting has to improve or he will be without a job. A new PG to replace Landry is a must and next year will be the litmus test for his future.
 
#5
#5
bleedingTNorange said:
Absolutely.
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This is a little unfair. Ole Miss had a good game plan. The only thing I fault Martin with is us not shooting free throws well, and sticking with our game plan no matter what happens. Us saying we were terrible doesn't do justice to the fact that Ole Miss was well prepared.

Plus we could not do anything with Holloway, he is the ultimate mismatch for us. He was too good to defend in zone and either too tall or athletic to guard in man...I think Martin will do fine, we are already at a better record than we were at this point last year.
 
#7
#7
Bless your heart BTO.
What's the point you're pushing?
If all this adds up to the reason we're playing so poorly, what was it last season when we had Maymon and Cam.
Figure last years team and tell us why we weren't a sweet sixteen.
 
#8
#8
calban said:
Bless your heart BTO.
What's the point you're pushing?
If all this adds up to the reason we're playing so poorly, what was it last season when we had Maymon and Cam.
Figure last years team and tell us why we weren't a sweet sixteen.
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So lack of talent has nothing to do with this teams struggles? Having to play Mcbee, Reese, Lopez big minutes doesn't hurt us?

You're smarter than that.


And for arguments sake last season it was 3.8...hmm kind of ironic that that'd put us in the top 4 of the SEC, and where'd we finish? And kind of hard to make a sweet 16 when you're not in the tournament to start with, figured you knew that.
 
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#9
#9
Ordinarily in basketball you have to score points consistently to be able to play defense well. Otherwise you spend your whole time on the losing end of the transition game. We have one guy - one - that can create consistent offense on his own. We have zero - zero - consistently even average jump shooters.

We are screwed.
 
#10
#10
Our current coach is very different from the coach who was fired, and the departed coach was winning. Regardless of the circumstances of the turnover, I think that anytime a program replaces a successful, popular coach with a very different coach, the transition is going to be difficult.
 
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#13
#13
bleedingTNorange said:
So lack of talent has nothing to do with this teams struggles? Having to play Mcbee, Reese, Lopez big minutes doesn't hurt us?

You're smarter than that.


And for arguments sake last season it was 3.8...hmm kind of ironic that that'd put us in the top 4 of the SEC, and where'd we finish? And kind of hard to make a sweet 16 when you're not in the tournament to start with, figured you knew that.
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So what you're saying is that with a 3.8 next season, we probably won't make the dance either.
 
#15
#15
bleedingTNorange said:
Use SOME common sense Cal...did we have the same average all last year? Or did we add a 5* recruit who probably raised that average?
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Just trying to get your logic.
We didn't dance last season at 3.8, but we will dance next season with a 3.8 and we can't finish 4th this season because we're a 3.4.
So all we need is talent and it doesn't matter who coaches it?
 
#16
#16
calban said:
Just trying to get your logic.
We didn't dance last season at 3.8, but we will dance next season with a 3.8 and we can't finish 4th this season because we're a 3.4.
So all we need is talent and it doesn't matter who coaches it?
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Once again Cal, did we add a 5* last year who probably raised that averaged or was it a 3.8 all year???

And I never said what we could or couldn't do...simply pointing it out. So in your mind the talent doesn't matter, its all the coach...well in that case Larry brown should be leading SMU to the final four this year right?

Hell of a coach, not much talent, but hey Calban says talent don't matter.
 
#17
#17
bleedingTNorange said:
Once again Cal, did we add a 5* last year who probably raised that averaged or was it a 3.8 all year???

And I never said what we could or couldn't do...simply pointing it out. So in your mind the talent doesn't matter, its all the coach...well in that case Larry brown should be leading SMU to the final four this year right?

Hell of a coach, not much talent, but hey Calban says talent don't matter.
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Just raggin' ya bud.
Trying to get that riser. Oops there it went.
Momma tried to beat that mean streak out of me, but she failed.
Hoping we find our defense again and bounce back on the road.
Peace be upon us.
 
#18
#18
calban said:
Just raggin' ya bud.
Trying to get that riser. Oops there it went.
Momma tried to beat that mean streak out of me, but she failed.
Hoping we find our defense again and bounce back on the road.
Peace be upon us.
Click to expand...

Obviously talent alone doesn't win...see Memphis.

But obviously good coaching and no talent also doesn't win...see SMU.

It's a medium, I simply was pointing out that this team isn't as talented as many think, that's all. The talent last year (post stokes) was top 4 in SEC, and that's where we finished. If we'd have had stokes all season probably would've danced. Talent this year is around 7th in SEC, so let's see where we finish, I think it'll be better than that.

Next year is the judgment year...he's got a talented, and experienced team for the ENTIRE season...time to put up.
 
#19
#19
bleedingTNorange said:
Talent this year is around 7th in SEC, so let's see where we finish, I think it'll be better than that.
QUOTE]

That's called lowering the bar to the extent that the team almost HAS to exceed expectations.

With the SEC talent, almost can't go lower than 6th. Cherry-pickin' BTO wins again!

Faulty logic: your whole presentation is based on the "stars" when kids were HS seniors. So, all college juniors and seniors have progressed at the same rate? You're saying a 5-star freshman carries the same weight as a 5-star senior PG?
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#21
#21
dixiebullfrog said:
bleedingTNorange said:
Talent this year is around 7th in SEC, so let's see where we finish, I think it'll be better than that.
QUOTE]

That's called lowering the bar to the extent that the team almost HAS to exceed expectations.

With the SEC talent, almost can't go lower than 6th. Cherry-pickin' BTO wins again!

Faulty logic: your whole presentation is based on the "stars" when kids were HS seniors. So, all college juniors and seniors have progressed at the same rate? You're saying a 5-star freshman carries the same weight as a 5-star senior PG?
Click to expand...

Do you have a better objective method for comparing the talent levels in the SEC?
Click to expand...
 
#22
#22
MemphisCanes said:
The real answer, boiled down to its most basic parts, is THIS.
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He was brought in as a walk-on and performs like a walk-on but gets playing time as if he's the next JaJuan Smith. If he received the minutes of a walk-on, he'd be a fan favorite whenever he comes in and makes a shot.

If he came off the bench on a good team, I think he'd be a decent contributer. But, he's starting on an average team, so he's exposed.
 
#24
#24
ukvols said:
If he came off the bench on a good team, I think he'd be a decent contributer. But, he's starting on an average team, so he's exposed.
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I agree with this 100%. I don't really think it's right to dog the kid for it either. He's being asked to do something that he isn't really able to do.
 
#25
#25
Yankee_Vol said:
Martin needs to do something or the program will end up losing a lot of fans
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It'll be interesting to see how many show up against a woeful Miss St team especially if UT starts off the SEC slate 0-3 like I think they will.

We'll see what kind of backbone this team has this Sat after getting embarrassed at home. If they have any at all, they'll show up. They'll also remember Henderson's antics and show up in Oxford when they have a rematch with Ole Miss just two weeks from today.
 
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