Which side is authoritarian?

#1
Vol8188

Vol8188

revolUTion in the air!
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#1
#2
#2
Vol8188 said:
This one line in a WashPo article today caught my attention. The author referred to the right as “an authoritarian alternative.

What am I missing? Outside of support for drug laws, I see far less authoritarianism from the right. The pandemic response being the perfect example of left wing authoritarianism.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/12/03/biden-media-coverage-worse-trump-favorable/
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Oh I'm sure the author is lumping hardcore evangelicals into his thought process and if that's the case he's not entirely wrong. Those guys aren't much different that the lefsist.
 
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#3
#3
hog88 said:
Oh I'm sure the author is lumping hardcore evangelicals into his thought process and if that's the case he's not entirely wrong. Those guys aren't much different that the lefsist.
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In terms of what? Gay marriage and abortion?

The issue there is it’s hard to call a party whose end goal is making those decisions at the state level, authoritarian.
 
#5
#5
For the most part, with almost amazing consistency, the left gaslights everyone else by accusing their opponents of doing the very things that they are engaged in. In fact, if you are unsure if the left is doing something, see if they are accusing the right of doing it.

For an almost perfect example In the Atlantic:
By way of foundation for all the rest, Trump and his party have convinced a dauntingly large number of Americans that the essential workings of democracy are corrupt, that made-up claims of fraud are true, that only cheating can thwart their victory at the polls, that tyranny has usurped their government, and that violence is a legitimate response.
 
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#7
#7
hog88 said:
Yes, both of those and booze, porn, ext and ext. Hard core evangelicals want to control people just as bad as the left does.
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As an evangelical, this is mostly true.
 
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#10
#10
depends-that-depends.gif


... on your definition of "authoritarian."

And generally speaking, whoever is in charge at the moment thinks their ideas are great and so they favor more government (in their image), whereas the folks out of power decry any government action as depraved overreach by the evil people in power.

Subject to change in about 30 minutes when the next elections are official.
 
#11
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hog88 said:
Yes, both of those and booze, porn, ext and ext. Hard core evangelicals want to control people just as bad as the left does.
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I think part of the issue is that 30 years ago the people you’re referencing did have a lot of institutional power. That’s shifted drastically. Yet I don’t believe the dialogue surrounding these issues nor the thoughts of the average person are in line with the current reality.

Continual changes in the dictionary for example are terrifying and Orwellian
 
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#12
lawgator1 said:
depends-that-depends.gif


... on your definition of "authoritarian."

And generally speaking, whoever is in charge at the moment thinks their ideas are great and so they favor more government (in their image), whereas the folks out of power decry any government action as depraved overreach by the evil people in power.

Subject to change in about 30 minutes when the next elections are official.
Click to expand...

Can you provide a definition? On a pure policy level I find very little authoritarianism (the bump stock ban stands out as authoritarian) relative to the Biden admin.

Can you provide examples?
 
#14
#14
Vol8188 said:
I think part of the issue is that 30 years ago the people you’re referencing did have a lot of institutional power. That’s shifted drastically. Yet I don’t believe the dialogue surrounding these issues nor the thoughts of the average person are in line with the current reality.

Continual changes in the dictionary for example are terrifying and Orwellian
Click to expand...

I agree with you that they have lost much of their power and influence.
 
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#15
#15
Vol8188 said:
This one line in a WashPo article today caught my attention. The author referred to the right as “an authoritarian alternative.

What am I missing? Outside of support for drug laws, I see far less authoritarianism from the right. The pandemic response being the perfect example of left wing authoritarianism.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/12/03/biden-media-coverage-worse-trump-favorable/
Click to expand...

Well, an authoritarian is someone more concerned with people following the law than freedom and rights. There are plenty of issues where people on the right will choose rule of law over liberty...like immigration, for example. Or, another example, privacy (PATRIOT Act). Or like people who opine that gay marriage restrictions/civil rights act shouldn't have been overturned/passed because of constitutional questions.
 
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#16
#16
There needs to be a happy medium.

Prior to companies like Heinz many food companies used dangerous products in their food and used very dark bottles to hide the actual colors. Heinz used a clear glass jar to show how pure his ketchup was. He almost went out of business and had to lobby Teddy Roosevelt to pass laws about food safety which later became the FDA.

To me this is a very good thing. The issue is when the same people the FDA monitors becomes the people supplying employees.

We need companies like the FDA and EPA to protect us from elements the average human has no insight to but there needs to be stop gaps in place to keep them from going overboard.
 
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#17
#17
Maybe someone in government that requires all private employers to force their employees to get esperimental gene therapy treatment?
 
#18
#18
n_huffhines said:
Well, an authoritarian is someone more concerned with people following the law than freedom and rights. There are plenty of issues where people on the right will choose rule of law over liberty...like immigration, for example. Or, another example, privacy (PATRIOT Act).
Click to expand...

Sure. Am I misreading the tea leaves though when I claim the larger/more authoritarian threat is from the left currently? What we’ve seen with Covid is unprecedented
 
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#19
#19
NEO said:
There needs to be a happy medium.

Prior to companies like Heinz many food companies used dangerous products in their food and used very dark bottles to hide the actual colors. Heinz used a clear glass jar to show how pure his ketchup was. He almost went out of business and had to lobby Teddy Roosevelt to pass laws about food safety which later became the FDA.

To me this is a very good thing. The issue is when the same people the FDA monitors becomes the people supplying employees.

We need companies like the FDA and EPA to protect us from elements the average human has no insight to but there needs to be stop gaps in place to keep them from going overboard.
Click to expand...

Every state has an EPA so no need for a federal one now.
 
#21
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Vol8188 said:
Sure. Am I misreading the tea leaves though when I claim the larger/more authoritarian threat is from the left currently? What we’ve seen with Covid is unprecedented
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You might be putting too much emphasis on this one thing, especially since it's not exclusive to the left. I mean, my governor is Republican and he issued mask mandates and shut down all kinds of businesses here. Same thing happened in Utah.

I think it's a matter of how you look at the world. I put more emphasis on the horrible injustices that happen every day in our criminal justice system than I do mask mandates in public and vaccine mandates for government employees.
 
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#23
#23
Gandalf said:
FYP
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Here’s the problem with that though: states like NY and CA will go insane. I get this makes it a states right issue and can be easily corrected on the state level but the reality is those two states are far gone so the average citizen is Fubar.
 
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#24
NEO said:
Here’s the problem with that though: states like NY and CA will go insane. I get this makes it a states right issue and can be easily corrected on the state level but the reality is those two states are far gone so the average citizen is Fubar.
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But they deserve to be - each state should lie down in the bed they have elected for themselves. If Californians wallow in excrement and call it feather down, then let them.
 
#25
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Vol8188 said:
This one line in a WashPo article today caught my attention. The author referred to the right as “an authoritarian alternative.

What am I missing? Outside of support for drug laws, I see far less authoritarianism from the right. The pandemic response being the perfect example of left wing authoritarianism.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/12/03/biden-media-coverage-worse-trump-favorable/
Click to expand...
All the various agencies thrive under Rs. DHS, TSA being two big examples.

Patriot Act is one of the two worst, for authoritarian considerations, Bill's passed in my life.
 
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