Who will remember two million Sudanese Christians killed by jihad?

[gsvol]

South Sudan, Israel's New Ally :: Daniel Pipes

It's not every day that the leader of a brand-new country makes his maiden foreign voyage to Jerusalem, capital of the most besieged country in the world, but Salva Kiir, president of South Sudan, accompanied by his foreign and defense ministers, did just that in late December.
-----------------------------

Today's Sudan took shape in the nineteenth century when the (Turkish moslem) Ottoman Empire controlled its northern regions and tried to conquer the southern ones. The British, ruling out of Cairo, established the outlines of the modern state in 1898 and for the next fifty years ruled separately the Muslim north and Christian-animist south. In 1948, however, succumbing to northern pressure, the British merged the two administrations in Khartoum under northern control, making Muslims dominant in Sudan and Arabic its official language.

Accordingly, independence in 1956 brought civil war, as southerners battled to fend off Muslim hegemony. Fortunately for them, Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion's "periphery strategy" translated into Israeli support for non-Arabs in the Middle East, including the southern Sudanese. The government of Israel served through the first Sudanese civil war, lasting until 1972, as their primary source of moral backing, diplomatic help, and armaments.

Mr. Kiir acknowledged this contribution in Jerusalem, noting that "Israel has always supported the South Sudanese people. Without you, we would not have arisen.
----------------------------

Sudan's civil war continued intermittently from 1956 until 2005. Over time, Muslim northerners became increasingly vicious toward their southern co-nationals, culminating in the 1980-90s with massacres, chattel slavery, and genocide. Given Africa's many tragedies, such problems might not have made an impression on compassion-weary Westerners except for an extraordinary effort led by two modern-day American abolitionists.

Starting in the mid-1990s, John Eibner of Christian Solidarity International redeemed tens of thousands of slaves in Sudan while Charles Jacobs of the American Anti-Slavery Group led a "Sudan Campaign" in the United States that brought together a wide coalition of organizations. As all Americans abhor slavery, the abolitionists formed a unique alliance of Left and Right, including Barney Frank and Sam Brownback, the Congressional Black Caucus and Pat Robertson, black pastors and white Evangelicals. In contrast, Louis Farrakhan was exposed and embarrassed by his attempts to deny slavery's existence in Sudan.

The abolitionist effort culminated in 2005 when the George W. Bush administration pressured Khartoum in 2005 to sign the Comprehensive Peace Agreement that ended the war and gave southerners a chance to vote for independence. They enthusiastically did so in January 2011, when 98 percent voted for secession from Sudan, leading to the formation of the Republic of South Sudan six months later, an event hailed by Mr. Peres as "a milestone in the history of the Middle East.".

 

[therealUT]

Not I.

 

[gsvol]

Not I.

Adolph Hitler posed a similar question; "Who will remember two million Armenians" before he proceeded to put six million Jews in the ovens.

Interestingly Hiter was only going to evict them from German held territories but some moslem Arab who appointed himself 'the mufti of Jerusalem convinced him to enact the 'final solution.'

Hitler was another socialist who also subscribed to the thoughts of Marx and Hegel and he also had a lot of good things to say about Christianity as he rose to power through the democratic process in Germany but in reality he dispised Christianity, calling it weak and greatly admired islam because of it's authoritarian nature.

BTW, the Mufti of Quds raised three divisions of SS troops for Hitler that were so barbaric and cruel that even some of the top Nazi SS commanders complained to him about it.

Here is a snapshot of some of their work:

"During our journey toward the hill of Javor, near Srebrenica and Ozren, all the Serbian villages which we came across were wholly massacred. In the villages between Vlasenica and Kladanj we discovered children who had been impaled upon stakes, their small limbs still distorted by pain, resembling insects stuck through by pins."

The above quote is from:
"Assassins au nom de Dieu"
Author: Herve Lauriere
Paris, 1951, page 58

They did the same things in the same places less than fifteen years ago and are so adept at propaganda that they sold the idea that they were the victims.

 

[therealUT]

1. Glad to hear that you and Hitler are asking the same questions.

2. The fact that you continue to insist that Hitler did not intend to eradicate the Jews yet was persuaded to do so by a 'moslem' shows how very ignorant and inherently bigoted you are. A white male who grew up in a Judeo-Christian environment and culture can and did think of and decide on the 'final solution' on his own. Read Mein Kampf and then shut the **** up.

3. Stop with the Hegel was a Socialist nonsense. Hegel wrote extensively on property as an extension of the Self. While Hegel certainly believed in the creation of nations, he should not be interpreted as a Socialist since, to him, property rights were personal rights and not society rights.

Hegel:nationalist. Marx:socialist.

GS:nationalist.

 

[MUR73]

Not I.

Why?

 

[therealUT]

Why?

I do not get caught up in remembering and/or memoralizing the dead. They are dead, move on.

 

[Rockytop1018]

I do not get caught up in remembering and/or memoralizing the dead. They are dead, move on.

That's a tad harsh, don't you think? I understand your own views, but you don't need to tell somebody to "move on" about such a sensitive topic.

 

[therealUT]

That's a tad harsh, don't you think? I understand your own views, but you don't need to tell somebody to "move on" about such a sensitive topic.

It is harsh.

 

[MUR73]

I do not get caught up in remembering and/or memoralizing the dead. They are dead, move on.

Darwins dog eat dog natural selection approach over Christs love for everyone, huh?.....you are truly a man of principal..I bet you even see to it that your loved ones gravesites aren't manicured and are instead overgrown with weeds and briars just to prove to everyone that you have no time nor tolerance for the dead or their memory..............lol.silly answer.

 

[therealUT]

Darwins dog eat dog natural selection approach over Christs love for everyone, huh?.....you are truly a man of principal..I bet you even see to it that your loved ones gravesites aren't manicured and are instead overgrown with weeds and briars just to prove to everyone that you have no time nor tolerance for the dead or their memory..............lol.silly answer.

What does building memorials have to do with love?

 

[gsvol]

silly answer.

That nails him.

He can admire him a statue of Lenin, as long as it is paid for privately, in a capitalistic manner.

You can figure all socialists as having two things, half a brain and no heart, no exceptions.

 

[therealUT]

That nails him.

He can admire him a statue of Lenin, as long as it is paid for privately, in a capitalistic manner.

You can figure all socialists as having two things, half a brain and no heart, no exceptions.

I can admire many things that I would note ever want the government to spend money on. On top of that, I do not admire the Lenin statue because it is Lenin; I admire it because I like it aesthetically.

Also, where have I ever stated that I was a socialist? Where have I ever stumped for socialist fiscal policy?

 

[gsvol]

I've encountered a lot of oddballs in my travels but never, until now, anyone who can so blithely write off genocide and modern day slavery so easily and advise everyone to just ignore and forget it.

I've also never encountered anyone that has such a hard time wrapping their mind around the fact that what we are talking about is observing the world and trying to find ways to avoid making some of the major mistakes of the past.

 

[MUR73]

I would be curious to read the response(s) had someone else covered a similar story with Muslims being slaughtered at the hands of maniacal Christians....why I bet the gang would all Be outraged and have something to say based on how upset they get over something as Asinine as a Nativity scene during Christmas. I guess Genocide doesn't compare to public displays of dressed up shepards bearing gifts...OHHH the humanity!!!!!!!

 

[gsvol]

I would be curious to read the response(s) had someone else covered a similar story with Muslims being slaughtered at the hands of maniacal Christians....why I bet the gang would all Be outraged and have something to say based on how upset they get over something as Asinine as a Nativity scene during Christmas. I guess Genocide doesn't compare to public displays of dressed up shepards bearing gifts...OHHH the humanity!!!!!!!

You didn't mention that Christians are all intolerant right wingnuts that hate everyone else in the world.

Gee, Mur, don't forget to be thorough.

 

[therealUT]

I would be curious to read the response(s) had someone else covered a similar story with Muslims being slaughtered at the hands of maniacal Christians....why I bet the gang would all Be outraged and have something to say based on how upset they get over something as Asinine as a Nativity scene during Christmas. I guess Genocide doesn't compare to public displays of dressed up shepards bearing gifts...OHHH the humanity!!!!!!!

I've stated many times that both religions are asinine. I do my best to point out the hypocrisy from Christians who act outraged at Muslim violence when Christianity and Christians have sanctioned as much or more violence and oppression over the course of the history of Christianity (all the way up to the 1960s in America).

 

[gsvol]

I've stated many times that both religions are asinine. I do my best to point out the hypocrisy from Christians who act outraged at Muslim violence when Christianity and Christians have sanctioned as much or more violence and oppression over the course of the history of Christianity (all the way up to the 1960s in America).

That is a
DAMNED
LIE!

I suggest you are lying for some purpose or another, if not, then I pity your self-inflicted ignorance and that goes up through 2012 AD.

 

[MUR73]

I've stated many times that both religions are asinine. I do my best to point out the hypocrisy from Christians who act outraged at Muslim violence when Christianity and Christians have sanctioned as much or more violence and oppression over the course of the history of Christianity (all the way up to the 1960s in America).

You see this is the thing that i don't get with you. You are a Diest right, which adheres to the watchmakers concept, Please correct me if im wrong, which basically says that someone created us with all our intricate parts and pieces and now having wound us up are just content in sitting back in their Easy chair in background watching us tick and ultimatly waiting for us winddown with no involvement or even concern with his/her creation.
This seems asinine to me.

You have stated that you do belive in a Creator but have no idea who or what they are, but the one thing you do know is , without a shred of proof to your point, is that its not the Christian God or Allah. This again seems asinine.

You obviously can believe what ever you like and i am fine with honest debate but you have a bigoted slant on your reporting of Christians. You seem to revelle in your disdain. To generalize all religions are the same is just ignorant as each religion and its followers has different set of beliefs or values whether or not its followers adhere to their rules or sadly use them to gain power, control or financial gain off of innocent peoples expense. However Corruption , Greed, Envy, Powerlust, Manipulation are not relagated to only religious groups/organizations and many attrocities have occured in Seculiar society/idealogy.See Chinas great Leap Forward .

To your point of trying to put Christians in our place, i really believe you are a sharp guy and i know you know what is happening here and what group poses the threat. For example everytime GS posts something you dismiss him but rarely disprove his message but just do some research on your own and its not hard to see the truth. If you pay a little attentionthan you would see that this world has a fanatical muslim problem not a Christain one so do not lump us together because i assure you we are NOT the same and one would be foolish and frankly just a liar to state otherwise.

In closing, i must say your HUGE oversight of current events to argue something that happened in the Crusades is mind blowing. I am unsure what happened to you to make you this bitter but it is palapable and it clouds your arguments. By the way the Spanish Inquisition has been over about 500 years now but Iran is currently developing Nukes and are looking to Usher in the 12th Imam in case your a bit behind.

 

[milohimself]

1. Glad to hear that you and Hitler are asking the same questions.

2. The fact that you continue to insist that Hitler did not intend to eradicate the Jews yet was persuaded to do so by a 'moslem' shows how very ignorant and inherently bigoted you are. A white male who grew up in a Judeo-Christian environment and culture can and did think of and decide on the 'final solution' on his own. Read Mein Kampf and then shut the **** up.

3. Stop with the Hegel was a Socialist nonsense. Hegel wrote extensively on property as an extension of the Self. While Hegel certainly believed in the creation of nations, he should not be interpreted as a Socialist since, to him, property rights were personal rights and not society rights.

Hegel:nationalist. Marx:socialist.

GS:nationalist.

Wasn't it Hegel who Marx drew most of his inspiration (revelation, even) from, in that he found Hegel's ideas to be perfectly backwards?

 

[therealUT]

You see this is the thing that i don't get with you. You are a Diest right, which adheres to the watchmakers concept, Please correct me if im wrong, which basically says that someone created us with all our intricate parts and pieces and now having wound us up are just content in sitting back in their Easy chair in background watching us tick and ultimatly waiting for us winddown with no involvement or even concern with his/her creation.
THis seems Assinine to me.

You are wrong. I do not adhere to any watchmaker concept and I think that Paley's argument is absolute nonsense. I believe that at at least one point in time there existed at least one supernatural force (i.e. a force that is not constrained by the laws of nature). That is it. As to whether this force had some grand design/scheme/plan, I am completely agnostic.

You have stated that you do belive in a Creator but have no idea who or what they are, but the one thing you do know is , without a shred of proof to your point, is that its not the Christian God or Allah. This again seems Assinine.

I have not said that I know that it is not the Christian God nor Allah. It very may well be; I have said that the arguments for an omnipotent, omnibenevolent, and omniscient being are absurd and that there is no logical way to end up there. I have also said that applying human concepts to something that is beyond the constraints of nature is absurd.

You obviously can believe what ever you like and i am fine with honest debate but you have a bigoted slant on your reporting of Christians. You seem to revelle in your disdain. To generalize all religions are the same is just ignorant as each religion and its followers has different set of beliefs or values whether or not its followers adhere to their rules or sadly use them to gain power, control or financial gain off of innocent peoples expense. However Corruption , Greed, Envy, Powerlust, Manipulation are not relagated to only religious groups/organizations and many attrocities have occured in Seculiar society/idealogy.See Chinas great Leap Forward .

You are correct; these corruptions are not confined to religions. They are confined to those who irrationally idolize the irrational and operate against sense and reason. Every major religion [Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism (Buddhism is not technically a 'religion')] places reason and logic as inferior to irrational revelation and the testimony of miracles. I would not believe my Mother if she came and told me the Sun stopped and danced in the sky; why am I going to even entertain that belief when I read it third-hand?

To your point of trying to put Christians in our place, i really believe you are a sharp guy and i know you know what is happening here and what group poses the threat. For example everytime GS posts something you dismiss him but rarely disprove his message but just do some research on your own and its not hard to see the truth. If you pay a little attentionthan you would see that this world has a fanatical muslim problem not a Christain one so do not lump us together because i assure you we are NOT the same and one would be foolish and frankly just a liar to state otherwise.

See, the problem here is you think that because the majority of Christians have not endorsed murder and oppression over the past fifty years that Christianity is a religion of peace while Islam is not. Over 1,950 years, Christianity has been anything but a religion of peace. When and if Christianity can continue to endorse universal equality and the toleration and acceptance of separate value claims the world over for one hundred or two hundred years, then a Christian might be able to adequately claim that Christianity has turned a corner and become a peaceful religion.

In closing, i must say your HUGE oversight of current events to argue something that happened in the Crusades is mind blowing. I am unsure what happened to you to make you this bitter but it is palapable and it clouds your arguments. By the way the Spanish Inquisition has been over about 500 years now but Iran is currently developing Nukes and are looking to Usher in the 12th Imam in case your a bit behind.

You are right, the Spanish Inquisition is over; and, African-Americans were finally treated as full-citizens in the 1950s and 1960s in America. On top of that, the Jasenovac Concentration Camp of the Ustase (Catholics) was dismantled in 1945.

 

[therealUT]

Wasn't it Hegel who Marx drew most of his inspiration (revelation, even) from, in that he found Hegel's ideas to be perfectly backwards?

Marx appreciated Hegel's approach to philosophy; however, he did feel that Hegel came to the wrong conclusions. Hegel was a staunch defender of the rigidity of social classes and the privatization of property; Marx wanted social classes abolished and felt that all property was communal. Hard to lump the two together...

 

[gsvol]

For the sake of the remaining black Christian Sudanese, let's hope the moslem Arabs honor the treaty and respect the newly won independence.