Why the constant bashing of the OL?

#26
#26
volroadwarrior said:
For whatever reason, we could not run the ball. However, we are about where we thought we would be at this point in the season. With the coaching turnover, new offense, freshman QB, new receivers and TEs, with no depth, we were destined to be blown out by some and maybe steal a win that we shouldn't.
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FYI - Alabama does the exact same thing with the guard to center leg tap as do many other high caliber D-1 schools.
 
#27
#27
TrueVol87 said:
Just my 2 cents from being at/ watching all the games till the end... I have seen a lot of zone blocking during run plays which means it's doesn't allow the o line to truly fire off the ball. They just turn and let the defense run up then push them that direction allowing the running back to find the holes. Some holes have been there but they close up quick against a defense that runs a lot of stunts or have really good linebackers. IMO this a dumb way to run block because it doesn't give the back a clear hole to run into and they can't get full speed hitting the hole because they are looking for it first. I would love to see more pulling guards, center an tackles leading to way for our backs and puttin some DBS an lbs on there a$$es. But I guess I'm just a fan of old school offense! Go VOLS!!!
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You are not going to see much of that in Butch's read option/spread scheme. Good or bad, that is just how the scheme works.
 
#28
#28
Tux said:
You are not going to see much of that in Butch's read option/spread scheme. Good or bad, that is just how the scheme works.
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I know I was just saying that's what I was raised playing and know best.
The spread does work sometimes but puts a lot of stress on o line n qb. Some teams still use pulling in the spread and it seems to work as well. I think maybe a little change in blocking could help with the run game.
 
#29
#29
TrueVol87 said:
I know I was just saying that's what I was raised playing and know best.
The spread does work sometimes but puts a lot of stress on o line n qb. Some teams still use pulling in the spread and it seems to work as well. I think maybe a little change in blocking could help with the run game.
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There are different variations of the spread. All spreads are not alike. Butch's version the Rich Rodrigues/Butch Jones read option version requires the blocking scheme that we are using. If an offensive linemen does not carry out his role in the scheme it takes a defender into the walled off area and gives the QB an extra and unwanted man to read.
 
#30
#30
Other_Guy said:
It's sad that you can't wait for 5 of the very very few good players they have gone. If you honestly think they have better backups you're crazy (once again the backups are fan favorites).

Why do we say that some of Worley/Dobbs problem is partiall WRs fault dropping passes and running wrong routes, yet we always place 100% blame on the OL? Didn't they look good against SCjr? Wonder why?

Also Mizzu's OL looked good because UT's DL is horrible.
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Whow! Those are mighty strong words against the DL.
 
#31
#31
orangeluvr said:
No matter how you slice it OL play has been disappointing thus far. :question:
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I do not like our zone blocking scheme with these guys. I'm not sure they wouldn't do better with just playing smash mouth football instead of this crappy zone blocking. Irregardless, they have definitely been a disappointment.
 
#32
#32
1985Vols said:
I do not like our zone blocking scheme with these guys. I'm not sure they wouldn't do better with just playing smash mouth football instead of this crappy zone blocking. Irregardless, they have definitely been a disappointment.
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It is Butch's scheme that he has taken with him wherever he has coached. It is what he knows and coaches. He does not deviate from it.
 
#33
#33
1985Vols said:
I do not like our zone blocking scheme with these guys. I'm not sure they wouldn't do better with just playing smash mouth football instead of this crappy zone blocking. Irregardless, they have definitely been a disappointment.
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About 1500 lbs of pure disappointment. I really can't see any of them being real high draft choices. They have the physicality but they don't get any results and they struggle technique wise across the board. Hope they are keeping their grades up and are progressing well in school.
 
#34
#34
Tux said:
Has anyone ever given thought that it could be the scheme? This same group was outstanding in a pro set scheme a year ago.
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Ehh, Bray was quicker to release the ball than the QB's this year, and that saved a lot of plays from being sacks.
 
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#35
#35
Tux said:
If everyone is going to bash this OL, imagine how everyone is going to bash the guys next year who could not beat out this year's group of offensive linemen.
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They outplayed the 1st string o-line in the 2012 spring game. They ARE better. The best thing that is going to happen to this team for many years is all of them going away come December.
 
#36
#36
sjt18 said:
I was there. The thought that struck me on the way home was, "I will actually be glad when those guys are gone"... and that morphed into curiosity about why Jones was willing to bench a QB last year but unwilling to bench someone like Bullard this year.

I watched a much less physically gifted OL from MU succeed while UT's OL failed for one major reason. MU's OL got on their block then didn't let go. They played with a nasty streak that UT's starters have not shown.

The one guy I have seen show that streak is Crowder. Some of the others may have it... but I have seen him do it.

That crystalized for me in one play. Neal was being tackled with James and two other OL's standing there watching within 3 yds. I assume they were supposed to be blocking someone. Maybe they were supposed to be blocking the guy who was making the tackle... but they were blocking no one.


I don't like to question the coaches at all. But I don't understand how no one else has gotten a real shot at playing time with these guys playing no better than they are.
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Pretty much falls in line with what I watched as well.

They have had their moments during the season where the potential seemed to be met and they got the most of it.

Last night they played without discipline and got whipped more often than not, calling it anything but that is naive. Dobbs needed everybody around him to step up and help him out. The OL didn't do him any favors last night.
 
#37
#37
Tux said:
Has anyone ever given thought that it could be the scheme? This same group was outstanding in a pro set scheme a year ago.
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I don't think we really ran a pro style offense last year not in typical terms. We ran more of a spread shotgun passing offense. Usually when you think pro style its more of I formation, Fullback with a TE offense, but the Pro Offenses are more wide open now and starting to see the spread the field passing attacks with 1 back set. Some teams still line up with a fullback and pound the ball, Kansas City is one that comes to mind, but for the most part its more of the spread them out offenses in the NFL now.

I Dont know why people keep saying this Oline is built to line up in an I formation and ram the ball down someones throat when in fact for 4 years they have never done that.

Honestly how many true read options play does our offense run a game? 10 maybe 12, just because it is a running play out of the spread does not mean it is a read option play, they run a lot of straight hands to the running back. Watch Dobbs when running the true read option and how long he keeps the ball in a RB"S stomach while reading the offense.
 
#38
#38
Other_Guy said:
It's sad that you can't wait for 5 of the very very few good players they have gone. If you honestly think they have better backups you're crazy (once again the backups are fan favorites).

Why do we say that some of Worley/Dobbs problem is partiall WRs fault dropping passes and running wrong routes, yet we always place 100% blame on the OL? Didn't they look good against SCjr? Wonder why?

Also Mizzu's OL looked good because UT's DL is horrible.
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So what you're saying is don't be down on our OL be down on our DL? At least coming in to the year, we knew the DL would struggle. Our OL was supposed to be a strength, yet haven't backed it up. If you think they have, we must be watching different games. All I've seen this year is them play well against weak opponents, yet struggle against actual talent. They've played soft and it shows every SEC game when they're getting pushed around as if they were nothing. I want to know why the hell the OL coach hasn't fixed it yet this far into the season?
 
#39
#39
615vols said:
The oline is just really overhyped. They CAN be really good, but they mostly underachieve. And I'm not basing my opinion solely on the past two games.
Its just one play, I know, but for instance in the wku game we had a third and one, ran the ball and couldn't get it.
With who we have, no reason we shouldn't be picking those up, but in several plays that game and even USA game I watched our linemen get pushed around. Then you factor in tinys guaranteed at least 2 false starts per game, or stone snapping the ball 8 ft high all night last night and it's just frustrating.
Lots of talent and time played together, but overall just an average to good sec line.
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Not!!!! A good O-Line. Very good. No one talks about the play calling which only ran the ball 24 times and passed 45 times for a true freshman is not good play calling. Also dropped passes are killing our run game. Teams no we have only two goo reliable WR. North and Pig Howard. So they stack the box. Also the coaching staff should have changed offensive scheme to fit the players around them, not the other way around. Need to get back to the power I and run the ball without all these track play concepts. And for all you fake fans. Y'all kill me with how you love the team one minute and hates the team next minute and you think recruits don't see what y'all write in blogs. Get a life and see me in section 117 if you have any questions.
 
#40
#40
Tux said:
It is Butch's scheme that he has taken with him wherever he has coached. It is what he knows and coaches. He does not deviate from it.
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Not!!!! A good O-Line. Very good. No one talks about the play calling which only ran the ball 24 times and passed 45 times for a true freshman is not good play calling. Also dropped passes are killing our run game. Teams know we have only two good reliable WR. North and Pig Howard. So they stack the box. Also the coaching staff should have changed offensive scheme to fit the players around them, not the other way around. Need to get back to the power I and run the ball without all these track play concepts. And for all you fake fans. Y'all kill me with how you love the team one minute and hates the team next minute and you think recruits don't see what y'all write in blogs. Get a life and see me in section 117 if you have any questions.
 
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#41
#41
TucsonVol said:
I think if you review the film, the offensive line did not open sufficient holes for our offense to be productive.
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and if you review the film you will see that the Defense had very little respect for our intermediate passing game. They were keyed run gaps all the way . This doesnt necessarily mean that they 'stacked the box' ..but most top ten teams don't have to do that . A safety can cover 8 yards in less than 2 seconds now while still reading 2 or 3 keys. The played the run gaps with abandon. That means that at the point of attack there were 7-8 guys all the time. They even went to 52 double eagle looks on known running downs and to 34 looks to shut down the zone read.

5 guys cannot block 7 or 8 guys . What you can do is complete enough passes in the intermediate to freeze the defenders feet and allow the run to develop ...and suddenly 5 guys are blocking 4 guys.

Its seems the OP has a valid point after all. Football 101.
 
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#42
#42
sbigdaddy said:
Not!!!! A good O-Line. Very good. No one talks about the play calling which only ran the ball 24 times and passed 45 times for a true freshman is not good play calling. Also dropped passes are killing our run game. Teams know we have only two good reliable WR. North and Pig Howard. So they stack the box. Also the coaching staff should have changed offensive scheme to fit the players around them, not the other way around. Need to get back to the power I and run the ball without all these track play concepts. And for all you fake fans. Y'all kill me with how you love the team one minute and hates the team next minute and you think recruits don't see what y'all write in blogs. Get a life and see me in section 117 if you have any questions.
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well said on all points. The I forms develop quicker and take advantage of the Oline and force the D to show their keys quicker ....they cant attack from space cause they wont have time. They will have to load they box pre-snap if they want to play run .
 
#43
#43
volroadwarrior said:
For whatever reason, we could not run the ball. However, we are about where we thought we would be at this point in the season. With the coaching turnover, new offense, freshman QB, new receivers and TEs, with no depth, we were destined to be blown out by some and maybe steal a win that we shouldn't.
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Lane and Dobbs ran well. Both averaged over 6 yards a carry. Neal did not...only averaged a yard a carry. Not sure what to make of that, other than had I been the coach I probably give Lane the ball more in this game...he is definitely faster and Mizzou D very fast.

But for the record, we ran a bit below average overall, at 3.9 yards a carry (below our season average of 4.5), but like in a few other games, large early deficit leads to less rush attempts. That and Mizzou stacked the box and dared us to throw.
 
#45
#45
KingNick865 said:
Ehh, Bray was quicker to release the ball than the QB's this year, and that saved a lot of plays from being sacks.
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This. Bray got rid of the ball quick which made the the offensive line look good by not having many sacks. OL was a little overrated coming in. Bray didn't like contact so at all costs he tried to get rid of the ball.
 
#46
#46
freshman qb or not we sucked....neal looked like he was running into a brick wall all night...Oline has to dig deep and get the push they didn't do that...way too much pressure on the QB also
 
#47
#47
majic73 said:
and if you review the film you will see that the Defense had very little respect for our intermediate passing game. They were keyed run gaps all the way . This doesnt necessarily mean that they 'stacked the box' ..but most top ten teams don't have to do that . A safety can cover 8 yards in less than 2 seconds now while still reading 2 or 3 keys. The played the run gaps with abandon. That means that at the point of attack there were 7-8 guys all the time. They even went to 52 double eagle looks on known running downs and to 34 looks to shut down the zone read.

5 guys cannot block 7 or 8 guys . What you can do is complete enough passes in the intermediate to freeze the defenders feet and allow the run to develop ...and suddenly 5 guys are blocking 4 guys.

Its seems the OP has a valid point after all. Football 101.
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Be careful. You will confuse most of our posters with actual football knowledge. They prefer to complain in peace.
 
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#48
#48
Other_Guy said:
I'm not talking about Tiny's false starts (or his individual play). When Worley actually played well against Georgia and SCjr, that opened the playbook and running game, and the offensive line looked like they were supposed to.

Then Worley plays hurt, Dobbs comes in and makes freshman mistakes, they play 2 REALLY good teams who know they can stack the box and stop the run, and the OL gets bashed again for sucking.

That's like saying no pressure on the QB from the DL + not stopping the run = blame should be on the secondary for every completed pass. It makes no sense.

The OL is the only thing keeping this team from being the worst team in the conference. Despite no Bray and passing game, they still have been respectable running the ball, and when the passing game actually works and everythings clicking they look good (shocker). If you wanna bash anyone, let's talk about an overrated defensive line and the most overrated starter ever Mr. J Smith.
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Inconsistency pisses people off...human nature to complain or be complacent. Your choice.
 
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