Win NOW vs building winning program

#1
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nash101

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#1
Some coaches show the ability to have instant success when they come in. Their system is simple and effective enough to produce instant results. Some examples might be: Bruce Pearl (basketball), James Franklin, Bobby Petrino. In most these cases, you could argue there is a ceiling to how far the team will go (may win games, but not many championships). Worse - if the coach leaves, then the wheels fall off and the team reverts to their losing ways since the roots are shallow.

ON the other hand, is laying the foundation for long term success. This may mean taking your lumps the first year or two in order to implement your system for long term success. Some examples might be Martin (basketball), Nick Saban, Pete Carroll, Rich Rod, and of course Butch Jones.

There are no guarantees the system will take root and provide the intended results (Rich at Michigan), but once it does you have the foundation set and can expect it to continue for a long time. Butch has his work cut out for him at UT, but he knew that and has rolled up his sleeves to work. Next year we will start to see some of the results. Another solid recruiting class and we will be on our way to seeing the wins on the field.
 
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#2
#2
Jones could win 8 or 9 next year. We really have no idea; all we know is that according to his record, his teams drastically improve in year 2. Obviously UT presents unique challenges that were not present at his previous stops, but once again all we can do is wait and see.
 
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#3
#3
I like the idea of doing it right if that means slow oh well. I myself just like other TN fans just want some stability back in our program. We just need to be patient and give Butch time.
 
#5
#5
VolFan4Life87 said:
Jones could win 8 or 9 next year. We really have no idea; all we know is that according to his record, his teams drastically improve in year 2. Obviously UT presents unique challenges that were not present at his previous stops, but once again all we can do is wait and see.
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H'ville - (1.) I'm a former HHS Commando and heard they are in semifinals. Not sure if you went to Beech or Station Camp, but regardless...go Commandos. (2.) If we don't see that improvement in year 2 that has been such a consistent element of CBJ, should VN panic?
 
#6
#6
give_him 6 said:
H'ville - (1.) I'm a former HHS Commando and heard they are in semifinals. Not sure if you went to Beech or Station Camp, but regardless...go Commandos. (2.) If we don't see that improvement in year 2 that has been such a consistent element of CBJ, should VN panic?
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I went to Oakland/Siegel in Murfreesboro; relocated to Hendersonville after graduating college.

I don't think VN should panic even if we don't go bowling next year. That would be pretty detrimental to recruiting I would think, but to expect his 1st full class to contribute is not realistic. Notice I said expect; that doesn't mean they won't/can't - and I say his first full class because I have a hard time judging Jones when he's coaching Dooley's players.

If we do not make & win a bowl game by year 3, I think there are serious concerns. By year 4 (this assumes we have recruited at or near the level of the 2014 class) if we're not atleast mentionable when discussing the SEC east title, major major problem.

JMHO :hi:
 
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#7
#7
give_him 6 said:
H'ville - (1.) I'm a former HHS Commando and heard they are in semifinals. Not sure if you went to Beech or Station Camp, but regardless...go Commandos. (2.) If we don't see that improvement in year 2 that has been such a consistent element of CBJ, should VN panic?
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I really don't think we will so much improvement next yr unless some of the incoming freshman really surprise us. I'm not really expecting any thing until maybe yr 3 or 4. That's just my opinion. GO VOLS!
 
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#8
#8
jimallvol said:
I really don't think we will so much improvement next yr unless some of the incoming freshman really surprise us. I'm not really expecting any thing until maybe yr 3 or 4. That's just my opinion. GO VOLS!
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Exactly my thoughts. But you never know when you pick up someone who completely changes the dynamics on one side of the ball such as Eric Berry or CP. We have alot of potential play makers coming on board, but regardless of that we shouldn't expect there to be an immediate turn around. It should be clearly evident now that Dooley ran the program nearly 6 feet under.
 
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#9
#9
VolFan4Life87 said:
Exactly my thoughts. But you never know when you pick up someone who completely changes the dynamics on one side of the ball such as Eric Berry or CP. We have alot of potential play makers coming on board, but regardless of that we shouldn't expect there to be an immediate turn around. It should be clearly evident now that Dooley ran the program nearly 6 feet under.
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Agree 110%
 
#10
#10
Jones needs to show improvement over this year and so on and so on. If no progress is made in 3 years, we need to start looking for a coach. I did not say a Championship, just progress!!!
 
#11
#11
VolFan4Life87 said:
Exactly my thoughts. But you never know when you pick up someone who completely changes the dynamics on one side of the ball such as Eric Berry or CP. We have alot of potential play makers coming on board, but regardless of that we shouldn't expect there to be an immediate turn around. It should be clearly evident now that Dooley ran the program nearly 6 feet under.
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There should be improvement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
#12
#12
Would much rather see this program return to consistency instead of instant short lived success. I don't know if VN can handle one or two season of success followed by multiple seasons of mediocrity or worse.
 
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#13
#13
give_him 6 said:
H'ville - (1.) I'm a former HHS Commando and heard they are in semifinals. Not sure if you went to Beech or Station Camp, but regardless...go Commandos. (2.) If we don't see that improvement in year 2 that has been such a consistent element of CBJ, should VN panic?
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The real HHS is Hillsboro Burros!
 
#14
#14
nash101 said:
Some coaches show the ability to have instant success when they come in. Their system is simple and effective enough to produce instant results. Some examples might be: Bruce Pearl (basketball), James Franklin, Bobby Petrino. In most these cases, you could argue there is a ceiling to how far the team will go (may win games, but not many championships). Worse - if the coach leaves, then the wheels fall off and the team reverts to their losing ways since the roots are shallow.

ON the other hand, is laying the foundation for long term success. This may mean taking your lumps the first year or two in order to implement your system for long term success. Some examples might be Martin (basketball), Nick Saban, Pete Carroll, Rich Rod, and of course Butch Jones.

There are no guarantees the system will take root and provide the intended results (Rich at Michigan), but once it does you have the foundation set and can expect it to continue for a long time. Butch has his work cut out for him at UT, but he knew that and has rolled up his sleeves to work. Next year we will start to see some of the results. Another solid recruiting class and we will be on our way to seeing the wins on the field.
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Don't agree with the premise that its one or the other. Nick Saban turned it around at BAMA pretty quickly. But, I didn't really expect that much this year. I thought 6-6 was doable especially after the Carolina win. I don't think they've done a good job coaching the freshman quarterback. Their special teams have gotten worse. They didn't get much out of the senior offensive line. And, they don't seem as disciplined as early on when they committed few penalties and had few turnovers. I also think their imagination has been suspect. For these reasons I am concerned but still have hope that Jones can turn it around. But it is still to be proven and he needs to back all his brick by brick and other "feel good" stuff with results on the field.
 
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#15
#15
nash101 said:
Some coaches show the ability to have instant success when they come in. Their system is simple and effective enough to produce instant results. Some examples might be: Bruce Pearl (basketball), James Franklin, Bobby Petrino. In most these cases, you could argue there is a ceiling to how far the team will go (may win games, but not many championships). Worse - if the coach leaves, then the wheels fall off and the team reverts to their losing ways since the roots are shallow.

ON the other hand, is laying the foundation for long term success. This may mean taking your lumps the first year or two in order to implement your system for long term success. Some examples might be Martin (basketball), Nick Saban, Pete Carroll, Rich Rod, and of course Butch Jones.

There are no guarantees the system will take root and provide the intended results (Rich at Michigan), but once it does you have the foundation set and can expect it to continue for a long time. Butch has his work cut out for him at UT, but he knew that and has rolled up his sleeves to work. Next year we will start to see some of the results. Another solid recruiting class and we will be on our way to seeing the wins on the field.
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How in the world can you place CCM in the same sentence with Saban or Carroll? That is laughable - he hasn't done anything of important as a head coach save never making it to the AA tourney.
 
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#16
#16
Why does it have to be 1 or the other? Why can't we do both? Win now and build the foundations every year for lasting success for years to come..
 
#17
#17
MrBiggles said:
Why does it have to be 1 or the other? Why can't we do both? Win now and build the foundations every year for lasting success for years to come..
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Because we had a ****ty team before Butch got here and we have a ****ty team with him here. Obviously we haven't had instant success. People are trying to spin the story in a positive direction.
 
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#18
#18
nash101 said:
Some coaches show the ability to have instant success when they come in. Their system is simple and effective enough to produce instant results. Some examples might be: Bruce Pearl (basketball), James Franklin, Bobby Petrino. In most these cases, you could argue there is a ceiling to how far the team will go (may win games, but not many championships). Worse - if the coach leaves, then the wheels fall off and the team reverts to their losing ways since the roots are shallow.

ON the other hand, is laying the foundation for long term success. This may mean taking your lumps the first year or two in order to implement your system for long term success. Some examples might be Martin (basketball), Nick Saban, Pete Carroll, Rich Rod, and of course Butch Jones.

There are no guarantees the system will take root and provide the intended results (Rich at Michigan), but once it does you have the foundation set and can expect it to continue for a long time. Butch has his work cut out for him at UT, but he knew that and has rolled up his sleeves to work. Next year we will start to see some of the results. Another solid recruiting class and we will be on our way to seeing the wins on the field.
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How can U say Jones is a long term coach? He only stayed 3 years at his 2 other jobs. No one has seen what he can do in year 4 or 5 yet.
 
#19
#19
Jones will have to recruit his way out of this disaster as he won't be able to do it by coaching.....recruit, recruit, recruit and recruit some more
 
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#20
#20
photovol said:
Jones will have to recruit his way out of this disaster as he won't be able to do it by coaching.....recruit, recruit, recruit and recruit some more
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It'll be amazing just how much better his coaching will be once those recruits are on the field..........
 
#21
#21
Please read my 2 cents in "the bashing needs to stop thread"...for all the doubters and haters.
 
#22
#22
photovol said:
Jones will have to recruit his way out of this disaster as he won't be able to do it by coaching.....recruit, recruit, recruit and recruit some more
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If the foundation is built around just one or the other it's limit is gonna be 3rd or 4th in the east.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#23
#23
If Saban Went some place and had a bad firstn year everyone knows he is building the roster up. Noone would panic. People forget we wasted a great offensive Roster the last two years due to injuries and no defense, If JH and Bray were healthy in 2011 we beat uf. uga, usce, and uk. that's 9 wins. If Wilcox stayed or we kept the same scheme in 2012 we win 9 games. But since we sucked for 3 years then the entire offensive roster left we have zero fire power. It's literally like starting from scratch all over again.
 
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