With Saban gone Kirby now owns this conference

#76
#76
Visidog said:
Kirby had an interesting idea. New recruits could pick to sign a 1-year NLI that left them free to transfer with immediate eligibility and a school to pull their scholarship after 1 year, or a 3-year NLI that bound the school and player together for 3 years. The player could still transfer but would not have eligibility to compete at a new school until his NLI expired. Schools can re-recruit their 1-year guys, but don’t have to. They can also extend beyond 3 years, of course, but the player is free to transfer after 3.
Click to expand...
I'd definitely be on board for some changes... the arguments often circle back around to how coaches can do whatever and whenever.

In what other industry can you fail and walk away with a golden parachute...and how many times have we watched successful coaches leave their teams before a bowl game for another program.

I don't want to ever hear any coaches complain about a lack of loyalty or commitment to the TEAM. Many of them [coaches] have led by example unfortunately.


.
 
#77
#77
I am confident that Smart is going to be dominant from here on but we really need to wait and see after the recent run. Sometimes it is hard to recapture the magic. Dabo Swinney and Clemson seem to be on the free fall.

What is making Saban's run so great is that he kept coming back even when others fell off.
 
#78
#78
05_never_again said:
You do understand that the single most important job of a college coach is recruiting, right? A college coach who doesn't recruit well is like an accountant that doesn't do debits and credits.
Click to expand...
AKA Dan Mullen. Heupel is also a great game day coach but we’ll forever be an 8-10 win team without elite recruiting.
 
#79
#79
BigOrangeTrain said:
It’s always nice to see dumb posts like these. Voldawgs? Grow up. Giving opinions on a rival team isn’t the same as being a fan of said team.
Click to expand...
And it's especially gratifying to see sanctimonious posts like these. Giving an opinion is normal, but there are a select few in here who take any opportunity to gush over uga ad naseum.

But, if my posts annoy or offend you, please feel free to take a quick drink of STFU and walk on by.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LadyVolette and BigOrangeTrain
#80
#80
Visidog said:
how has Smart kept people from transferring? Carson Beck sat three years behind a walk on before starting.

UGA loses and has consistently lost a ton of talent to the transfer portal every year. Justin Fields left. Jermaine Johnson. Jermaine Burton. AD Mitchell. Bear Alexander. Each of these guys were tops at their position on their new team. There were several other guys who left and immediately took starting roles on new teams: Cade Mays and Brenton Cox come to mind. UGA has dealt with high levels of attrition from 2019 on.

And I don’t get the idea that UGA’s scheme isn’t elite. Smart took Mark Richt’s roster to the national championship game. Tennessee’s offense in 2022 was historically good, and UGA’s offense was… 9 yards per game worse (511 to 502) against FBS teams, and UGA averaged more yards per play. Both teams replaced offensive coordinators and QBs this year, and UGA dropped 10 yards per game but kept the same yard per play. Tennessee dropped more than 60 yards per game and more than half a yard per play. UGA’s scheme held up while Tennessee’s output suffered without the dudes it had last year.
Click to expand...
I don’t get most of this post. I simply outlined how things have changed with the new rules. The op made the comment that now maybe uga picks up all those elite bama players giving them an even bigger advantage. I simply said in this day and age it’s getting harder and harder to create the type advantage bama held 10 years ago.

And furthermore uga absolutely does win based more off talent and culture than anything else. Case in point…uga (and bama) have offensive coordinators come and go and typically allow them to implement their scheme. Because it doesn’t matter which type of scheme they run…if they have all the best players and culture, any scheme can work.

Other coaches prioritize the scene and continue to add to it (such as Riley, Kiffin, and Heupel). If the talent gets harder and harder to stack up and hold onto, coaches that focus on having a really elite scheme and identity could have the advantage in the future.
 
  • Like
Reactions: midnight orange
#81
#81
This thread shows why Fulmer was never a great coach. He had the same opportunity to own the SEC when Spurrier left. But he wilted.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dansky
#82
#82
chattavol420 said:
I don’t get most of this post. I simply outlined how things have changed with the new rules. The op made the comment that now maybe uga picks up all those elite bama players giving them an even bigger advantage. I simply said in this day and age it’s getting harder and harder to create the type advantage bama held 10 years ago.

And furthermore uga absolutely does win based more off talent and culture than anything else. Case in point…uga (and bama) have offensive coordinators come and go and typically allow them to implement their scheme. Because it doesn’t matter which type of scheme they run…if they have all the best players and culture, any scheme can work.

Other coaches prioritize the scene and continue to add to it (such as Riley, Kiffin, and Heupel). If the talent gets harder and harder to stack up and hold onto, coaches that focus on having a really elite scheme and identity could have the advantage in the future.
Click to expand...
What’s your evidence that the coaches you list have schemes that are less dependent on talent? Heupel’s scheme looked incredible with Hooker and Hyatt and Tillman, but was it the same this year? Riley has had the 1 pick playing QB for two years, and had Hurts, Mayfield, etc. before that.

Talent may get harder to stockpile, but—even if that happens—the teams that emerge will be the ones who put together a talented one-year team. That was TCU in 2022 and Washington in 2023, both of which had senior-laden rosters and a few impact transfers. Florida made Mullen look like a genius in 2020, but the scheme didn’t work without Trask and Pitts, etc.

Scheme matters, but talent matters more.
 
#83
#83
TN1111 said:
I'd definitely be on board for some changes... the arguments often circle back around to how coaches can do whatever and whenever.

In what other industry can you fail and walk away with a golden parachute...and how many times have we watched successful coaches leave their teams before a bowl game for another program.

I don't want to ever hear any coaches complain about a lack of loyalty or commitment to the TEAM. Many of them [coaches] have led by example unfortunately.


.
Click to expand...
Stanley O'Neal at Merrill Lynch. He picked up a few hundred million for trying hard to completely trash the company.

Carly Fiorina at HP didn't do too bad either while treating HP like crap.

College football is a big business, not some "Rah, Rah for good ol' State" Ronald Reagan movie. Seriously, "loyalty and commitment to the team" takes a seat WAY WAY WAY WAY back in the bus when there's $50 million per year coming at the school from TV rights.
 
#85
#85
Lawrence Wright said:
“With Spurrier now gone, Fulmer now owns this conference.”

- Anonymous Fan Base, circa late 2001
Click to expand...

I had thought that as well.

Still Kirby looks difficult to topple. One candidate is Texas and Sarkisian. They seem to have a solid situation going right now. I know SEC fans don't want to hear that because they are the newbie.
 
#88
#88
Visidog said:
What’s your evidence that the coaches you list have schemes that are less dependent on talent? Heupel’s scheme looked incredible with Hooker and Hyatt and Tillman, but was it the same this year? Riley has had the 1 pick playing QB for two years, and had Hurts, Mayfield, etc. before that.

Talent may get harder to stockpile, but—even if that happens—the teams that emerge will be the ones who put together a talented one-year team. That was TCU in 2022 and Washington in 2023, both of which had senior-laden rosters and a few impact transfers. Florida made Mullen look like a genius in 2020, but the scheme didn’t work without Trask and Pitts, etc.

Scheme matters, but talent matters more.
Click to expand...
Because Tennessee reached NO.1 in the nation last year with a total roster ranking outside the top 25. That season included a win over bama (whose total roster talent was no.1).

I don’t know how much more evidence you need than that. Definitely not gonna waste any more time replying. It’s not a hard concept to understand. Not sure why you are so adamant at debating it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: midnight orange, TN1111 and LadyVolette
#89
#89
chattavol420 said:
Because Tennessee reached NO.1 in the nation last year with a total roster ranking outside the top 25. That season included a win over bama (whose total roster talent was no.1).

I don’t know how much more evidence you need than that. Definitely not gonna waste any more time replying. It’s not a hard concept to understand. Not sure why you are so adamant at debating it.
Click to expand...
That proves my point, though. A 1-year confluence of talent in Hooker, Hyatt, Tillman, D. Wright, etc. made for a great team even without a fully elite roster. This year, the scheme is the same and the talent composite is higher, and yet the offense didn’t perform as well. Do you really believe those guys didn’t make a difference? Or that this year’s WR injuries didn’t matter?
 
#91
#91
Visidog said:
That proves my point, though. A 1-year confluence of talent in Hooker, Hyatt, Tillman, D. Wright, etc. made for a great team even without a fully elite roster. This year, the scheme is the same and the talent composite is higher, and yet the offense didn’t perform as well. Do you really believe those guys didn’t make a difference? Or that this year’s WR injuries didn’t matter?
Click to expand...
even with the offense being worse this year. it was still very good. Top 20 overall in the nation. It would be our 3rd best offense at UT since 2004 (2022, 2012). and it may go on farther than that, 2004 was just the last year the source had.

this down year had a better offense than anything Dobbs, Hurd, Kamara, Malone produced.

even without the top end talent Heupel's scheme produced. it just didn't produce at a level that reset UT's history books, that doesn't mean the scheme requires special talent to be good. it just means that 2022 was special, and no program should expect to rewrite their own history books each season.

and we can further look at the success that Heupel's offense had at UCF, definitely wouldn't have been as talented as 2023 UT, but still produced. Even back to his OC days at Mizzou his offense was very good even if it wasn't fully his style. the scheme is good.
 
#92
#92
LouderVol said:
even with the offense being worse this year. it was still very good. Top 20 overall in the nation. It would be our 3rd best offense at UT since 2004 (2022, 2012). and it may go on farther than that, 2004 was just the last year the source had.

this down year had a better offense than anything Dobbs, Hurd, Kamara, Malone produced.

even without the top end talent Heupel's scheme produced. it just didn't produce at a level that reset UT's history books, that doesn't mean the scheme requires special talent to be good. it just means that 2022 was special, and no program should expect to rewrite their own history books each season.

and we can further look at the success that Heupel's offense had at UCF, definitely wouldn't have been as talented as 2023 UT, but still produced. Even back to his OC days at Mizzou his offense was very good even if it wasn't fully his style. the scheme is good.
Click to expand...
I’m not down on the scheme at all. I think it’s great and fun to watch. It consistently produces, and I’d say it’s better than just good.

But I think the question we’re discussing is different. Scheme obviously matters (see Texas A&M for all players, no scheme), and not all schemes are equal. But I think players matter more. The top echelon of coaches have elite scheme and elite players.

Plays have complex designs, but they fundamentally assume that blocks work and receivers find the hole in a coverage. A defender that beats blocks shrinks the playbook for the offense. A corner that can hold up in man shrinks the playbook for the offense. A WR that can just run past the defense limits what a defense can do with its safeties. A TE that can block a DE and outrun a LB limits what a defense can do. A QB like Hooker who can throw accurately and run decisively is far more than just an X on a play design. The scheme may function independent of the particular players, but the skills of a few difference makers are what makes the scheme so successful.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GroverCleveland
#93
#93
Visidog said:
I’m not down on the scheme at all. I think it’s great and fun to watch. It consistently produces, and I’d say it’s better than just good.

But I think the question we’re discussing is different. Scheme obviously matters (see Texas A&M for all players, no scheme), and not all schemes are equal. But I think players matter more. The top echelon of coaches have elite scheme and elite players.

Plays have complex designs, but they fundamentally assume that blocks work and receivers find the hole in a coverage. A defender that beats blocks shrinks the playbook for the offense. A corner that can hold up in man shrinks the playbook for the offense. A WR that can just run past the defense limits what a defense can do with its safeties. A TE that can block a DE and outrun a LB limits what a defense can do. A QB like Hooker who can throw accurately and run decisively is far more than just an X on a play design. The scheme may function independent of the particular players, but the skills of a few difference makers are what makes the scheme so successful.
Click to expand...
not really sure what you are arguing. because I haven't seen anyone say that better players wouldn't lead to better results in Heupel's scheme. and considering Heupel took a bunch of guys that weren't picked for his scheme and had almost immediate success suggests that his scheme is accounting for said players. we have been pretty talented, but haven't produced on the level of that talent. we have always had Top 25 "talent", but have struggled to even be .500. scheme is what we have been missing.

what does "talent" even mean? Is it just the pure Combine numbers? Or does it mean production? some other sort of metric, recruiting "stars", PFF grades? Because in 2021 we didn't have much production. Tillman's (2*) breakout was Heupel's first year, maybe some of Pruitt's last. Hooker (low 4) was a washout, Hyatt (4*) hadn't done much of anything, Wright (5*) looked like a bust. Fant (3*) was a man without a position. Its not like we had been able to use the same guys to find success under other schemes. even this year you had a good number of guys starting who weren't talented under other schemes but found success with Heupel.

even on defense we took guys who weren't good and turned them into something. certainly not to the same level of the offense but you have guys who were nobodies suddenly showing up. Beasely, Butler. we also watched a bunch of starters walk away, and again we somehow did better, except for the pass D which was a huge step back.
 
#97
#97
BAMA-DAWG said:
Who knows if Kirby will ever win another chip, but it's a down right shame to watch the once proud Tide transforming itself into UT before our very eyes.
Click to expand...
Your screen name is cursed. One of your bandwagon teams is on the way down. The other won’t be to far behind.
 
#98
#98
JohnWardForever said:
NOPE. Even Saban has more class than to interfere with the New Coach.
Click to expand...
I’m not sure why Sabin wants to even be in the building. Even if he doesn’t interfere he will catch grief if new coach isnt successful. I assume he feel he can be an asset. it’s going to be an interesting few years at Bama.
 
  • Like
Reactions: VolNExile
#99
#99
People are making way too much of Saban still having an office on campus. First, his office is in Bryant Denny, not the football complex. Second, he owns two multi-million vacation/retirement homes. He also owns Ferrari and Mercedes dealerships and will, in all likelihood, be doing TV work for ESPN this fall and into the future. He’s not going to be hanging around Tuscaloosa being involved with the football program.
 
  • Like
Reactions: VAVol85
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top