'20 VA C Dylan Cardwell

#77
#77
cncchris33 said:
That he is not perceived to be as good as Hall, who is bordering on top 50-60. Nothing more, nothing less. You seem to be looking for an argument that doesn’t exist.

And I respectfully disagree with Rob Lewis because I think Hall is quite a bit more polished and talented than Caldwell. Not that DC is a bad player, but I am very high on Hall. Caldwell may be a better fit, but I think in this case, the talent gap is more than the fit gap.
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Maybe I took it wrong, but calling Caldwell 150-200 when he’s 115 by Rivals and ~150 by 247 seemed like trying to take an unnecessary jab...it would be like SweetDaddy saying PJ Hall is a fringe Top 100 guy, not exactly the whole truth.

Lewis’ thoughts seemed to be that Plavsic and ORN are more heavy footed post guys, neither are going to really be rim protector, PJ Hall would fall into the same category...he feels Cardwell is a much quicker leaper and better defensive presence that the roster is more likely in need of.
 
#80
#80
Cardwell would be a great addition. Won't complain a second if he comes here. But between the two, I would take Hall.
 
#81
#81
bleedingTNorange said:
Maybe I took it wrong, but calling Caldwell 150-200 when he’s 115 by Rivals and ~150 by 247 seemed like trying to take an unnecessary jab...it would be like SweetDaddy saying PJ Hall is a fringe Top 100 guy, not exactly the whole truth.

Lewis’ thoughts seemed to be that Plavsic and ORN are more heavy footed post guys, neither are going to really be rim protector, PJ Hall would fall into the same category...he feels Cardwell is a much quicker leaper and better defensive presence that the roster is more likely in need of.
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I think you definitely mistook his point. I don't think he ever intended for it to be a knock on Cardwell, just some further ammunition for why Barnes prefers Hall.

I agree Hall isn't going to be a rim protector, necessarily, and if the idea is to find a near identical replacement for Kyle Alexander, then Cardwell is the better fit, probably. I certainly wouldn't call Hall heavy-footed, though. He is actually quite nimble for a 6-9 guy. I have used Kevin Love as a comparison, but Wayne Chism is another decent Tennessee comparison in terms of skillset.

FWIW, there is a pretty lengthy list of blocked shots at the 3:15 mark here...
 
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#82
#82
cncchris33 said:
I think you definitely mistook his point. I don't think he ever intended for it to be a knock on Cardwell, just some further ammunition for why Barnes prefers Hall.

I agree Hall isn't going to be a rim protector, necessarily, and if the idea is to find a near identical replacement for Kyle Alexander, then Cardwell is the better fit, probably. I certainly wouldn't call Hall heavy-footed, though. He is actually quite nimble for a 6-9 guy. I have used Kevin Love as a comparison, but Wayne Chism is another decent Tennessee comparison in terms of skillset.

FWIW, there is a pretty lengthy list of blocked shots at the 3:15 mark here...
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Yes, Hall is able to block some shots against HS kids, Cardwell was Top 5 in blocks on the EYBL circuit and is regarded as one of the best defensive bigs in the class. There’s not much doubt that Hall is the higher ranked prospect, but offer lists are pretty darn similar and when you consider fit/need I’m not sure you can go wrong with either...that’s all I was saying.
 
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#84
#84
VFL49er said:
Eh I disagree. There’d be no need to rank them then, just separate them into tiers by star ranking
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the only reason there are rankings is so Rivals, 247 etc can exist...the further you get down the list the less accurate it becomes. Who are the highest 3 guys Barnes has signed?
 
#85
#85
bleedingTNorange said:
the only reason there are rankings is so Rivals, 247 etc can exist...the further you get down the list the less accurate it becomes. Who are the highest 3 guys Barnes has signed?
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I dont disagree that it becomes less accurate as you go down but within 100 I don’t think that’s the case. But either way I was mainly saying walkenvol said nothing bad about Cardwell but you implied he did
 
#87
#87
Volfan2012 said:
I don't worry about rankings very much with Barnes coaching here. He is a very good judge of talent and will only sign players that he knows have a lot of talent and upside.
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CRB misses on players just like all coaches do - Walker and Burns were the last 2. It’s unrealistic to expect any coach to have every recruit become a great player. The closest to that would be signing a new group of one and domes each year
 
#88
#88
bleedingTNorange said:
Said Caldwell is ranked 150-200 for a reason...what would that reason be?

Fwiw Rob Lewis said he believes Caldwell is the better fit in his opinion for Tennessee.
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It would appear CRB thinks Hall is the better fit since all signs point to Hall being higher on the Vol’s board? You like Lewis’ opinion better than CRB’s opinion?
 
#90
#90
walkenvol said:
CRB misses on players just like all coaches do - Walker and Burns were the last 2. It’s unrealistic to expect any coach to have every recruit become a great player. The closest to that would be signing a new group of one and domes each year
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There’s misses with 5 stars as well, not to mention the chemistry issues that often time also accompany that strategy.
 
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#91
#91
walkenvol said:
It would appear CRB thinks Hall is the better fit since all signs point to Hall being higher on the Vol’s board? You like Lewis’ opinion better than CRB’s opinion?
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Did I say that? I think the difference is pretty close or you wouldn’t have saw Cardwell on a visit this past weekend, you don’t see Ezewiro here or some other bigs, do you? I think Hall is probably the better player, but I also do put some stock into fit and think that there’s a legitimate point that maybe Cardwell is the better fit especially considering the others in the ‘20 class.

Also, not saying it’s likely, but if a guy like Banchero reclasses, he’s pretty similar position and style to Hall...but not Cardwell.
 
#92
#92
walkenvol said:
Whats Caldwell ranked on the others than Rivals? CRB’s proven he can spot talent and if he said he wanted Caldwell over Hall then I’d say we should all want Caldwell also. Maybe I’m missing something, but it appears Hall is CRB’s first choice and Caldwell is the plan B?
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With Cardwells offer and visit list, he is t gonna be anyone’s back up plan.
 
#94
#94
bleedingTNorange said:
Yes, Hall is able to block some shots against HS kids, Cardwell was Top 5 in blocks on the EYBL circuit and is regarded as one of the best defensive bigs in the class. There’s not much doubt that Hall is the higher ranked prospect, but offer lists are pretty darn similar and when you consider fit/need I’m not sure you can go wrong with either...that’s all I was saying.
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I don't think anyone thinks that missing on Hall and landing Cardwell is a doomsday event for this class. Most people would (and should) be happy with either. And I'm not trying to say Hall is Cardwell's equal in the shot-blocking department. I'm just saying he can hold his own down low, and is significantly better in nearly every offensive category. So for me, Cardwell might be the better immediate fit, but Hall checks more boxes for me. That said, I won't lose sleep if we miss on him and have to "settle" for Cardwell.
 
#95
#95
cncchris33 said:
I don't think anyone thinks that missing on Hall and landing Cardwell is a doomsday event for this class. Most people would (and should) be happy with either. And I'm not trying to say Hall is Cardwell's equal in the shot-blocking department. I'm just saying he can hold his own down low, and is significantly better in nearly every offensive category. So for me, Cardwell might be the better immediate fit, but Hall checks more boxes for me. That said, I won't lose sleep if we miss on him and have to "settle" for Cardwell.
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Yea I’m very happy with either, I think both bring something that the other doesn’t, I think they are very opposite big men. If we land Hall I think he’s a hell of a player, I worry a little about if everyone stays satisfied with the amount of touches they get, but that could also work itself out after a year if anyone leaves for the NBA.
 
#96
#96
bleedingTNorange said:
There’s misses with 5 stars as well, not to mention the chemistry issues that often time also accompany that strategy.
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Do you just start arguing and then can’t stop or is it a case of having to have the last word? I really appreciate the info you bring to the board but you’ve been trying to argue with me on things I’ve never said - why? I didn’t say signing all one and dones equals no misses - I said it gets you closer to not having misses.

I’m not inclined to look it up, but IIRC DC has been ranked from the low 100’s up to the low 200’s which doesn’t accurately predict anything just ask Grant Williams. Sweetdaddy and some others have stated they want DC over Hall. My point was CRB wants Hall first and the rankings folks appear to collectively think Hall is the better prospect. Maybe Sweet and gang are right, but I tend to place more confidence in CRB’s opinion.
Just put me on ignore if a reasonable discussion can’t happen.
 
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#97
#97
walkenvol said:
Do you just start arguing and then can’t stop or is it a case of having to have the last word? I really appreciate the info you bring to the board but you’ve been trying to argue with me on things I’ve never said - why? I didn’t say signing all one and dones equals no misses - I said it gets you closer to not having misses.

I’m not inclined to look it up, but IIRC DC has been ranked from the low 100’s up to the low 200’s which doesn’t accurately predict anything just ask Grant Williams. Sweetdaddy and some others have stated they want DC over Hall. My point was CRB wants Hall first and the rankings folks appear to collectively think Hall is the better prospect. Maybe Sweet and gang are right, but I tend to place more confidence in CRB’s opinion.
Just put me on ignore if a reasonable discussion can’t happen.
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Sorry you took it that way, obviously I mistook what you were saying about Cardwell and your post above makes that more clear...apologies.
 
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#99
#99
bleedingTNorange said:
Did I say that? I think the difference is pretty close or you wouldn’t have saw Cardwell on a visit this past weekend, you don’t see Ezewiro here or some other bigs, do you? I think Hall is probably the better player, but I also do put some stock into fit and think that there’s a legitimate point that maybe Cardwell is the better fit especially considering the others in the ‘20 class.

Also, not saying it’s likely, but if a guy like Banchero reclasses, he’s pretty similar position and style to Hall...but not Cardwell.
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That part is comical after you projecting with the same poster.
 
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