2019 Magazine pre-season rankings

#51
#51
KBVol said:
Uhhh, yep, guilty as charged. Happy to “throw them under the bus”.....after last year’s major failings that’s where they belong until they can prove otherwise.
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Yeah... because there's no way that anyone else contributed to the offense being bad.

You have accused me of "hating" JG because I criticized him... but at no point have I said he was the only problem. I've consistently said it was shared blame. At no point have I said he couldn't improve. At no point have I called him even the worst QB in the SEC last year even though the offense behind him was anemic and near the bottom of the league.

Edit: actuall, I think Will Friend deserves the “bus” treatment more than his players. It was clear that at no point last year were they in sync and playing with the right technique, effort and attitude. There was enough OL talent last year to have been moderately successful, especially late in the season, but at no point did they perform even moderately well.
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The first OL had Kennedy and Smith in it. Without much argument, those were the best two OL's UT had... among a group that was severely underdeveloped if not lacking talent. I don't know about Friend. I do know that pretty much everything they learned under Jones had to be unlearned.
 
#52
#52
I think that based on the performance of the team last year alone, this pre-season ranking is about right. I think that we are more of a fringe top 25 team, but that is based on a lot of preseason hype that we generate as fans and anticipation that builds over the course of the off-season. Everything is amplified when all you have to do is think and talk.

My feeling that the team will be top 25 is based on what I think that the team is capable of, and not necessarily what they have accomplished. I think that CJP and his staff have the right stuff to do more with less in terms of talent, and IMHO that is the only thing that will get us to the top 25 if we land there come season's end. The talent gap between UT and the other teams that will populate the bottom of the top 25 is minimal. UT has the talent to play with those teams, but the schedule that is between game 1 and game 12 is much more difficult for the VOLS and that is what will determine the final ranking and bowl game that the team earns at the end of the year. If they play as well as I expect that they will and show weaknesses that I think are still in the lines, Tennessee will be able to beat many of the teams on the bottom half of the top 25 that took an easier path to get there. But the proof is in the putting as they say, and we have to beat teams like BYU, USCjr, UK, Mizzou, Vandy, and Miss St if we expect to see the team in the top 25. Winning those games along with the cupcakes will prove that we are one of the best 25 in the nation. A win against Florida would change the narrative on Tennessee for most who make predictions, the talking heads on Game Day, and certainly for the VolNation faithful.

A signature win against UGA or Bama would split the world of college football in two and shift the earth on its axis, but I don't see those going our way.

GBO!!
 
#53
#53
sjt18 said:
Yeah... because there's no way that anyone else contributed to the offense being bad.

You have accused me of "hating" JG because I criticized him... but at no point have I said he was the only problem. I've consistently said it was shared blame. At no point have I said he couldn't improve. At no point have I called him even the worst QB in the SEC last year even though the offense behind him was anemic and near the bottom of the league.


The first OL had Kennedy and Smith in it. Without much argument, those were the best two OL's UT had... among a group that was severely underdeveloped if not lacking talent. I don't know about Friend. I do know that pretty much everything they learned under Jones had to be unlearned.
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Didn’t say no one else contributed to the offense being bad last year, but it’s unarguable (even though you evidently want to argue) they the OL was BY FAR, not even remotely close, the biggest problem. Recall that fully 1/3 of all our running plays resulted in lost yardage...that’s an astonishingly high number, and it led the country by a country mile in that category.

JG was pretty good last year, much improved over the previous year, but he could’ve certainly been better...have said this many times before. Has to have a better sense of urgency in the pocket at times and feel pressure better, although he was surely better last year than 2017. Have said a million times now, he wasn’t great....but he wasn’t nearly as awful as you and others constantly drone on about.

The WRs we have are very good at going up and getting 50/50 balls, but none of them stretch the defense and we were 2nd or 3rd in the conference last year in dropped passes....those things were a problem.

DWA is a promising TE talent, but he wasn’t very good blocking in the SEC last year, he’s gotta get better......and his receiving production was low primarily because he had to stay in many times to help max protect on passing plays....and there was ZERO TE depth behind him

Our RBs were smallish and specialized....Ty is very talented but he’s more a change of pace back....Jordan was/is a marginal SEC RB....Banks couldn’t hold onto the ball and therefore couldn’t play.....and all of them were poor in pass protection (see the Missouri game). No bellcow running back behind an awful OLine led to a nonexistent running game.

So yeah, everybody contributed to the poor offensive production/execution last year. But surely nobody can say with a straight face that the overwhelming lion share of guilt/fault belonged to our very bad, poorly coached OL.
 
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#54
#54
KBVol said:
Didn’t say no one else contributed to the offense being bad last year, but it’s unarguable (even though you evidently want to argue) they the OL was BY FAR, not even remotely close, the biggest problem. Recall that fully 1/3 of all our running plays resulted in lost yardage...that’s an astonishingly high number, and it led the country by a country mile in that category.

JG was pretty good last year, much improved over the previous year, but he could’ve certainly been better...have said this many times before. Has to have a better sense of urgency in the pocket at times and feel pressure better, although he was surely better last year than 2017. Have said a million times now, he wasn’t great....but he wasn’t nearly as awful as you and others constantly drone on about.

The WRs we have are very good at going up and getting 50/50 balls, but none of them stretch the defense and we were 2nd or 3rd in the conference last year in dropped passes....those things were a problem.

DWA is a promising TE talent, but he wasn’t very good blocking in the SEC last year, he’s gotta get better......and his receiving production was low primarily because he had to stay in many times to help max protect on passing plays....and there was ZERO TE depth behind him

Our RBs were smallish and specialized....Ty is very talented but he’s more a change of pace back....Jordan was/is a marginal SEC RB....Banks couldn’t hold onto the ball and therefore couldn’t play.....and all of them were poor in pass protection (see the Missouri game). No bellcow running back behind an awful OLine led to a nonexistent running game.

So yeah, everybody contributed to the poor offensive production/execution last year. But surely nobody can say with a straight face that the overwhelming lion share of guilt/fault belonged to our very bad, poorly coached OL.
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Agree with this 100%
 
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#55
#55
KBVol said:
Didn’t say no one else contributed to the offense being bad last year, but it’s unarguable (even though you evidently want to argue) they the OL was BY FAR, not even remotely close, the biggest problem. Recall that fully 1/3 of all our running plays resulted in lost yardage...that’s an astonishingly high number, and it led the country by a country mile in that category.
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While the OL was bad, more goes into the run game than what the OL's contribute. The QB has a role as do the receivers and RB's.

It is also a mistake to over generalize. An OL can be "good" at pass protection and bad at run blocking or vice versa. UT's OL wasn't particularly good at either but they were better at pass protection than run blocking.

JG was pretty good last year, much improved over the previous year, but he could’ve certainly been better...have said this many times before. Has to have a better sense of urgency in the pocket at times and feel pressure better, although he was surely better last year than 2017. Have said a million times now, he wasn’t great....but he wasn’t nearly as awful as you and others constantly drone on about.
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Yeah... I've heard your equivocating, muddy the waters stuff repeatedly. He was "pretty good", "much improved", "could've been better",... but he wasn't great.

You've repeatedly said the OL sucks. You say it every chance you get. It has become gratuitous. Here you almost suggest that some of the pressure he felt was on him.... but I'm sure now that I've pointed it out you will say I'm being too critical.

JG wasn't good. He wasn't good at what you said. He wasn't good at reading D's to get the ball off quick or know where to go with the ball consistently. Because of this, two consecutive staffs have cut the field down for him. They give him more limited, safer throwing windows and reads. When you have big physical WR's, throwing to the outside shoulder and letting them fight for the ball is "safe" for instance. It is in part safe because JG does that extremely well... but it also limits what he has to see and process. He's slow to make decisions pretty consistently. IMO, that's because he doesn't read and process before or after the snap as quickly as he needs to.

The WRs we have are very good at going up and getting 50/50 balls, but none of them stretch the defense and we were 2nd or 3rd in the conference last year in dropped passes....those things were a problem.
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Not being a smart aleck but can you cite the source for that stat? I have not been able to find sources for that and QB pressure stats that are often thrown around here. Not saying it isn't true. I just haven't been able to confirm it.

I think it is unfair to blame the WR's for being unable to stretch the field deep until JG can read coverage and throw over the top. In two years, he has almost never overthrown a receiver going deep. Most teams incorporate a few of those throws just to keep S's honest. BYU with slower receivers gets guys behind coverage. But the QB has to be able to read safety help and get the ball out early. JG is consistently a half count late throwing which contributes to everything looking short.

DWA is a promising TE talent, but he wasn’t very good blocking in the SEC last year, he’s gotta get better......and his receiving production was low primarily because he had to stay in many times to help max protect on passing plays....and there was ZERO TE depth behind him

Our RBs were smallish and specialized....Ty is very talented but he’s more a change of pace back....Jordan was/is a marginal SEC RB....Banks couldn’t hold onto the ball and therefore couldn’t play.....and all of them were poor in pass protection (see the Missouri game). No bellcow running back behind an awful OLine led to a nonexistent running game.

So yeah, everybody contributed to the poor offensive production/execution last year. But surely nobody can say with a straight face that the overwhelming lion share of guilt/fault belonged to our very bad, poorly coached OL.
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I'm not going to judge the coaching after they were forced to play such small, underpowered guys. If they don't look better in that regard this year then we can start taking shots at them.


You are still trying to parse a team game. I can't say what % of the blame lies where. I can agree with most of the particulars you mention. But a QB consistently being late with the ball makes a difference to OL's that you can't just "see". OL inconsistency more obviously impacts a QB.

I think it is fair to criticize particular things that a player does poorly. I don't think it is fair to say that JG sucked so that's why the OL sucks or as you do... vice versa. If JG were able to do what Ainge did in the "dink and dunk"... we might be talking about how bad the OL was in run blocking... but not pass protection. UT needed that as part of their game and apparently JG isn't or wasn't capable of doing it,

The run blocking was pretty bad except when the OL had favorable physical match ups.... then it was slightly better. I actually think UT has a good one in Chandler. I think Banks could be. Not knocking Jordan but he seems to be too small to be slow and too slow to be small. I thought he was supposed to be fast but he hasn't shown particularly good ability to get the edge.
 
#56
#56
KBVol said:
Didn’t say no one else contributed to the offense being bad last year,
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No. You don't "say" it. You just don't admit it in any significant or objective way when it comes to JG. You don't mind saying that any or everyone else pretty much sucks.
 
#57
#57
sjt18 said:
No. You don't "say" it. You just don't admit it in any significant or objective way when it comes to JG. You don't mind saying that any or everyone else pretty much sucks.
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What I typically do on defending JG from guys like you who only say he “sucks”, can’t read a defense, locks in on receivers, can’t set protections, can’t hit a receiver in stride, can’t feel pressure, can’t do literally anything.....is respond by saying hold on, he’s better than your subjective opinion says, and here’s the empirical data/proof. Apologies for not, every time, joining you guys in chorus of how he blows before presenting the stats that reflect his actual performance and say otherwise.
 
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#58
#58
KBVol said:
What I typically do on defending JG from guys like you who only say he “sucks”, can’t read a defense, locks in on receivers, can’t set protections, can’t hit a receiver in stride, can’t feel pressure, can’t do literally anything.....is respond by saying hold on, he’s better than your subjective opinion says, and here’s the empirical data/proof. Apologies for not, every time, joining you guys in chorus of how he blows before presenting the stats that reflect his actual performance and say otherwise.
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Who needs data and facts when you have feelings and the eyetest?
 
#61
#61
KBVol said:
What I typically do on defending JG from guys like you who only say he “sucks”, can’t read a defense, locks in on receivers, can’t set protections, can’t hit a receiver in stride, can’t feel pressure, can’t do literally anything.....is respond by saying hold on, he’s better than your subjective opinion says, and here’s the empirical data/proof. Apologies for not, every time, joining you guys in chorus of how he blows before presenting the stats that reflect his actual performance and say otherwise.
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I have not said he "sucks"... ever. He does not read defenses well. That's why he's so late much of the time making decisions.... and why he hasn't been trusted to hit hot routes even though they would have been incredibly useful considering the OL problems.

I am not in the film room so some things like setting protections cannot be known. Seems likely but it is not obvious.

He CAN hit receivers in stride when practicing against air... that's the thing we can take hope in if he can speed up his decision making. The issue is that he throws late too often. He seems to manage the pocket poorly. That was more visible in the spring game in part because Maurer seemed to do it instinctively.

JG has been limited by the last two OC's. Either that's because they didn't really want to win or else he couldn't do what they needed him to do. If you want to define that some other way then have at it. Some is the OL... but hot routes and a quick passing game aren't. Using the middle of the field consistently and effectively isn't always an OL issue.

My issues aren't "subjective". Like everyone else here, they're interpretations of the facts... but NOT subjective in any way that your declaration that the OL is almost totally responsible for the bad performance and sucks.

Things I've CONSISTENTLY said JG does well- He's tough. He keeps getting up and tries to lead a bad team under difficult circumstances. He throws a BEAUTIFUL ball and seems to have a compact motion. He has very good arm strength and excellent accuracy when not pressured to act quickly. Unlike Dobbs, he is VERY accurate "in the strike zone" most of the time- he can almost always put the ball exactly where he wants it. These aren't small things. IMO, he has tremendous physical talent. I've said that for a very long time. He has to get better at the mental part.
 
#62
#62
k-town_king said:
Both. The data is a fact. Pff has criteria for a stat they use. No different than ESPN and qbr.
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No...no ambiguity, subjectivity, or nuance at all here, just pure data and facts.

What is a big-time throw?
In its simplest terms, a big-time throw is on the highest end of both difficulty and value. While the value is easy to see statistically, the difficulty has more to do with passes that have a lower completion percentage the further the ball is thrown down the field. Therefore, the big-time throw is best described as a pass with excellent ball location and timing, generally thrown further down the field and/or into a tighter window.
 
#63
#63
If we somehow beat Florida I'd say we will beat Georgia and actually look competitive against bama
 
#65
#65
*Sigh*

Again with the rankings crap.

I mean, don’t we get sick of this? I guess not because, what else is there to do? Anyway I hope that I’m not coming across negative or anything like that, but in my opinion (which isn’t much) this team isn’t going to be a good team for quite some time. Yeah I know, you’ve read this before, but even with the latest recruitments it’s going to take some time. Around here, I’m sure people have gotten tired of hearing that but that’s just reality at this point. This year I don’t see this team winning more than 6 games MAYBE 7, but that would be a stretch. If we somehow win 8! Than holy cow, CJP should get coach of the year or something. I will say this though, CJP is one mean recruiter, if he can recruit like this coming off of a 5-7 year, then just imagine what he can do coming off of a 7-5 win season.
 
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#66
#66
Phil Steele has the Vols as one of his teams poised for a turn around.

7. Tennessee Volunteers(6.5)
While the Vols have the seventh-toughest schedule in the country, they are the second-most experienced team in the SEC, coming in at No. 21 overall on my experience chart. Tennessee has an underrated quarterback in Jarrett Guarantano and an offense that brings back 10 starters, including its top two rushers, top seven receivers and four starting offensive linemen. The defense should also be much improved with six starters back, and the Vols should reach a bowl game after missing the postseason the past two seasons.
 
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