CJP getting some love from bama honks

#26
#26
i2amavol said:
His biggest downfall by far, in my opinion, was in strength and conditioning, not on-the-field coaching. Plus, I just feel the team ended up with a "snowflake" mentality.
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Butch was below average at every aspect of the job except recruiting. And even within recruiting, there were big flaws.
 
#28
#28
Pruitt being a DC at Bama, UGA, and FSU makes me feel optimistic. On the flipside, he has never been a HC and that is worrisome. I do feel confident that we will see big time improvements on defense right away. There is talent on that side of the ball. Helton and Friend are the wildcards. If those two coaches can improve the O sooner rather than later, then I certainly like our chances competing this year.
 
#29
#29
05_never_again said:
I don't have much doubt Pruitt will recruit well and vastly improve the defense. However, it is fair to be skeptical at his ability to manage an offense and build a good offensive staff. He's never had to do that before, and breaking that skill in at a big job like Tennessee isn't easy. Ultimately, I think his success or failure as a coach here will be determined by what happens with the offense. If he is able to develop a consistent offense, whether it be primarily on the ground like at Alabama or Georgia or a more QB-centric one, I think he will be a very good coach. If we get into year 3 and we are losing games because our defense is always on the field, he'll be in trouble.

I would be disappointed but not necessarily stunned if the offense never comes around. I'll be disappointed and stunned if the defense doesn't get much better over time.
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Well said, 05. That's similar to my thinking. Worst case scenario is that he's Muschamp Part 2. Best case scenario is Saban Part 2.

I'm reasonably optimistic and wearing the orange-colored shades right now, but we'll definitely have to see how things progress on offense. Pruitt was easily a top 5 DC if not the best in the country, though, so the defense will improve; albeit, it might not be elite in Year 1. The only real question is does he have the know-how to manage a staff, team, and game in the way Saban does.
 
#30
#30
05_never_again said:
None, at least not yet. I would have liked to have seen us get an OC with a little more play calling experience, but Helton does have a decent enough pedigree.

I wasn't drawing a conclusion that the offensive staff is going to be bad. That remains to be seen. All I'm saying is that if Pruitt doesn't succeed here, I think it would be because of the offense because of his inexperience there.
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i'll buy that, at least in that it's the same thing that torpedoed Muschamp at UF. seems to have learned his lesson the 2nd time around.

we won't know for a couple years one way or the other, all i can say is that i think he went out and hired guys he trusts, so i think while he has an overall philosophy he wants instilled, he'll let Friend, Helton, Johnson, etc...do their jobs. now all we have to find out if they're good at their jobs. LOL.
 
#31
#31
Rudy123 said:
Ya know that Dooley recruited Justin Hunter & Da Rick. Both should have been super good players but after Hunter was injured against Florida, he played a little soft. Da Rick was the opposite and was aggressive as a player, but he could not stay out of trouble with the urine tests.
Dooley did have some recruiting success' though.
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Dooley just completely gave up during the May before his firing. I don't think he even bothered dialing a telephone after that trying to finish out his job in the proper way
 
#33
#33
jakez4ut said:
i'll buy that, at least in that it's the same thing that torpedoed Muschamp at UF. seems to have learned his lesson the 2nd time around.

we won't know for a couple years one way or the other, all i can say is that i think he went out and hired guys he trusts, so i think while he has an overall philosophy he wants instilled, he'll let Friend, Helton, Johnson, etc...do their jobs. now all we have to find out if they're good at their jobs. LOL.
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Agreed. As time goes on, I'm more worried about Fulmer meddling with Pruitt than Pruitt meddling with his assistants.
 
#34
#34
05_never_again said:
Agreed. As time goes on, I'm more worried about Fulmer meddling with Pruitt than Pruitt meddling with his assistants.
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ugh. i'm not as worried about that as i was when his name started floating around way back when Hart announced his retirement plans. i think Fulmer, in the time he's had the job, has been pretty hands off. at least to the point of inserting himself in to the day to day of how the football program operates (practices, philosophies, personnel, schemes/systems etc...).

could change. we'll see how things go if there's some adversity or there's issues with staff members/disciplinary issue resolution etc...but for now, i think he's giong to let Pruitt run the football program. and be there in a "in case of emergency, break glass" type of deal.

either way, i'm not gonna worry about that until/unless something warrants it.
 
#35
#35
05_never_again said:
I think that comment was made as a critique of his managerial skills, or the fact that we don't really know exactly how good his managerial skills are because he's never been a head coach before. Coaches are teachers, but a head coach, especially at a place like Tennessee, has to be much more than just a good teacher. That's only one aspect of the job. The dude we fired last year was good at only one aspect of the job too, and you see how that turned out.

I hope that guy ends up being dead wrong and his comments looks foolish in hindsight, but it is a fair comment to make at this point.
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That is nonsense, the notion that a college coach must be a CEO type of manager and less hands on is a false notion. Maybe in the NFL where players are more prepared and better conditioned but not college football. Nick Saban is extremely hands on and is very abrasive as is Urban Meyer. Most successful college football coaches are extremely hands on and are great teachers. Phillip Fulmer was an outstanding o-line coach, Steve Spurrier was a great qb coach and offensive coordinator, and Jim Harbaugh is extremely hands on not to mention being very abrasive. Who are these CEO, non hands on coaches in the NCAA with great success? Butch Jones was sub par at every facet of coaching and couldn’t manage the players or staff. To suggest that CJP will be a failure because he likes to be hands on with coaching is nearly comical
 
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#36
#36
landscapingvol said:
That is nonsense, the notion that a college coach must be a CEO type of manager and less hands on is a false notion. Maybe in the NFL where players are more prepared and better conditioned but not college football. Nick Saban is extremely hands on and is very abrasive as is Urban Meyer. Most successful college football coaches are extremely hands on and are great teachers. Phillip Fulmer was an outstanding o-line coach, Steve Spurrier was a great qb coach and offensive coordinator, and Jim Harbaugh is extremely hands on not to mention being very abrasive. Who are these CEO, non hands on coaches in the NCAA with great success? Butch Jones was sub par at every facet of coaching and couldn’t manage the players or staff. To suggest that CJP will be a failure because he likes to be hands on with coaching is nearly comical
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I did not mean a hands-off approach is what he needs to take. A head coach, by definition, is the "CEO" of the football team. That does not mean they are or need to be hands off; some CEOs are very hands-on. I meant that being a head coach is way more than just teaching guys technique, and a head coach cannot have a narrow perception of their job description. This is Pruitt's first go as the manager of an entire team, and it is unknown how good he'll be. That's all I'm saying.

Like I said I expect Pruitt to be good at managing the defensive side of the ball, because that's his background, and I expect him to be a good recruiter, because he's demonstrated ability in that area over multiple years at multiple schools. For him, the managing the offensive staff and that side of the ball is a total wild card. He's never done it before. That's why I think his success or failure as a coach will be determined there, because he's already demonstrated he's pretty good at most of the other stuff.
 
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#38
#38
Vol-in-Atlanta said:
I can't imagine Pruitt being less prepared to be an SEC coach than the last three. No way.
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I don't think there's any doubt Pruitt is more prepared than those other guys, although that's a low bar, especially when you're talking about Kiffin and Dooley.

I think Kiffin actually is prepared today (not when he took over Tennessee) to be an SEC coach, but any school giving him the keys to their program is nuts because of the kind of person he is. Butch and Dooley would never have been cut out to be SEC head coaches.
 
#40
#40
Rudy123 said:
Ya know that Dooley recruited Justin Hunter & Da Rick. Both should have been super good players but after Hunter was injured against Florida, he played a little soft. Da Rick was the opposite and was aggressive as a player, but he could not stay out of trouble with the urine tests.
Dooley did have some recruiting success' though.
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Yeah them boys really made their mark.
 
#41
#41
05_never_again said:
It's a somewhat justifiable opinion, especially if you are a Bammer. If by "disastrous" they mean like the Dooley era, I don't thin he'll be that bad. If they mean like the Butch era, it's possible.

I don't have much doubt Pruitt will recruit well and vastly improve the defense. However, it is fair to be skeptical at his ability to manage an offense and build a good offensive staff. He's never had to do that before, and breaking that skill in at a big job like Tennessee isn't easy. Ultimately, I think his success or failure as a coach here will be determined by what happens with the offense. If he is able to develop a consistent offense, whether it be primarily on the ground like at Alabama or Georgia or a more QB-centric one, I think he will be a very good coach. If we get into year 3 and we are losing games because our defense is always on the field, he'll be in trouble.

I would be disappointed but not necessarily stunned if the offense never comes around. I'll be disappointed and stunned if the defense doesn't get much better over time.
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A man's got to know his limitations.
...and, you can quote me.
 
#43
#43
Why does everyone seem to forget that Pruitt has Fulmer as a boss? If anyone thinks for one second that Pruitt hasn’t been getting tutelage from a HOF HC, which is our AD, they’ve lost their mind. This is Fulmers first hire at the university that he loves and he’s not gonna let it become a sinking ship. Pruitt will lean on Fulmer when need be, we’re gonna be fine.
 
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#44
#44
05_never_again said:
Butch was below average at every aspect of the job except recruiting. And even within recruiting, there were big flaws.
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Not quite, not to be a butch supporter but the special teams were really good and the academic side was excellent. Unfortunately the offense and especially the defense were substandard.
 
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#45
#45
wtorange said:
Not quite, not to be a butch supporter but the special teams were really good and the academic side was excellent. Unfortunately the offense and especially the defense were substandard.
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That's fair. Breakdowns in punt and kickoff coverage were rare, Daniel was a great punter, Medley was a good kicker as long as you were 45 or closer, and we had returners that could make stuff happen in the kickoff/punt return game (Berry, Sutton, Kamara, Callaway).
 
#46
#46
wtorange said:
Not quite, not to be a butch supporter but the special teams were really good and the academic side was excellent. Unfortunately the offense and especially the defense were substandard.
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Kick offs/Touch backs and Punting were great. FG kicking was abysmal imo.

agree about the acadmeics though, that was one thing that even Pruitt had glowing reviews on.
 
#47
#47
Funny how Kirby was in Pruitt’s shoes a couple years ago and everybody said great things about him but since it’s TN they claim he’s is going to be awful. This article is probably the most arrogant thing I’ve read all offseason...Florida winning the east? Are you joking!
 
#48
#48
KeyVol14 said:
Funny how Kirby was in Pruitt’s shoes a couple years ago and everybody said great things about him but since it’s TN they claim he’s is going to be awful. This article is probably the most arrogant thing I’ve read all offseason...Florida winning the east? Are you joking!
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Basically any non-Georgia fan had doubts about Kirby too, and precisely for the same reasons.
 
#49
#49
05_never_again said:
I did not mean a hands-off approach is what he needs to take. A head coach, by definition, is the "CEO" of the football team. That does not mean they are or need to be hands off; some CEOs are very hands-on. I meant that being a head coach is way more than just teaching guys technique, and a head coach cannot have a narrow perception of their job description. This is Pruitt's first go as the manager of an entire team, and it is unknown how good he'll be. That's all I'm saying.

Like I said I expect Pruitt to be good at managing the defensive side of the ball, because that's his background, and I expect him to be a good recruiter, because he's demonstrated ability in that area over multiple years at multiple schools. For him, the managing the offensive staff and that side of the ball is a total wild card. He's never done it before. That's why I think his success or failure as a coach will be determined there, because he's already demonstrated he's pretty good at most of the other stuff.
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There are about 5 sure bets in college football and none of them are coaching/have a desire to ever coach at UT. To suggest that CJP is a risk is doing nothing more than stating the obvious, almost every head coach is a risk. The reason he is a greater risk as stated by yourself and many like you is because he is very hands on or abrasive to the media? He is a risk so is every other coordinator who was ever hired as a head coach at a major university but what you seem to ignore is most head coaches at major universities were previously coordinators not head coaches: Helton, Smart, Sarkesian, Fulmer at UT, Muschamp at Florida, Jimbo Fisher, Charlie Strong at Louisville, Bob Stoops, Lincoln Riley, and Dabo Sweeney just to name a few at varying degrees of success. Were they any less prepared than Dooley, Jones, Kiffin, Strong at Texas, McElwain at UF, Muscamp at SC, Orgeron at LSU, Freeze, or Malzahn? I would argue no they were not and had similar if not greater success at major universities
 
#50
#50
05_never_again said:
Basically any non-Georgia fan had doubts about Kirby too, and precisely for the same reasons.
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some still do, despite last year's run. i do think it's safe to say that as long as they recruit like they have been it'll be virtually impossible for them to be average/mediocre.

but as to how last year turned out, i think a lot of sane people realize what he walked in to, especially at RB and really, all over the defense. and that they all stayed for his 2nd year....well, let's just say that's fortunate. to add to the good fortune, their stud blue chip qb goes down and they insert a freshman blue chip that, while he won't be necessarily credited with being the reason they won, he certainly didn't do the normal things freshmen do to sometimes "prevent winning".

all that said, i think just from an attitude and philosophy standpoint, they definitely upgraded. and to also add, i think everyone saw Kirby make rookie mistakes on the sidelines in 16. he didn't in 17. he'll get better as it goes. how much? dunno. jimmies and joes he's getting though, make that trip a lot easier.

i see pruitt more on the lines of Kirby than i do muschamp to be honest. though i think his timeline for 'real success' is a bit longer given the differences in the rosters they inherited. only sure thing though.........we'll all get to find out.
 
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