Coach Kellie Harper fired

[Lucy]

Why does anyone on here have to name names? Nobody on this board is making the hire.

Because none of the fire Kellie crowd can name a list of five gettable coaches with better results than Kellie. It’s all fun and games running Kellie out of town until you have to find a replacement.

 

[ttharp]

This ^^^

It was the obvious move. She was not competitive against the group of teams she was hired to beat. In the past we would have waited until the wheels came off and made rebuilding extremely difficult, but we have a better AD who is proactive now.

Hiring a replacement will be a crapshoot, but as much as we wish it were otherwise, we have seen Kellie's ceiling.

Usually you have to cycle through a few coaches before you find the one you are looking for. Keep in mind this will be the first REAL coaching search we have had where we consider all candidates. Before we artificially limited ourselves in various ways hoping to hold onto the past. Getting it right on the first try is a low percentage play. But the sooner you start prospecting, the sooner you find your diamond.

I am not sure who would make the best coach, but what you won't see is someone hired who has already failed at a major conference on their last go around, or someone who has never coached before (as some here are promoting). And short of offering access to Dolly's wardrobe closet, you won't see someone like Mulkey.

White will consult with a LOT of people in the industry, and whoever he hires will be well regarded by those in the profession, even if they aren't being touted on the message boards.

Last time around I thought Wes Moore should get the job. This time there does not seem to be so obvious a choice. It will be fun speculating though.

If offered, do you think Wes would take the job with how close he is with the Harpers?

 

[BisonVol]

So in two more years if he hasn’t beaten GA and ALA are we going to fire him for being mediocre?
I like JH just trying to point out the double standard.

If he doesn’t make the 12 team playoff while we have Nico, then he will get plenty of criticism. Fired? Probably not as long as the record isn’t a disaster. Context again comes into play here. That’s a program that has had seven head coaches since 2009 and seven losing seasons since 2009. It needs stability.

The LV basketball program is hiring its fourth coach ever and has still not missed an ncaa tournament. Very different situations.

 

[Volstylexx]

She was never less than 3 games out of first place, that’s not competitive. Couple that with all but 1 season she lost to SCar so 3 games is really 4 with the head to head factored in. She also only played Scar 2x in the regular season once (this year) or she’d have likely been 4-5 games out of 1st. On 2 occasions her top 4 finishes you’re so proud of resulted in being 6 games out of a tie for 1st, again that’s not competitive.

Run along Jon and polish up your resume.

OMG what if that is Jon???

 

[BisonVol]

Because none of the fire Kellie crowd can name a list of five gettable coaches with better results than Kellie. It’s all fun and games running Kellie out of town until you have to find a replacement.

But no one posting here is hiring the replacement so what’s it matter if they can list a replacement or not?

 

[JohnnyPayne]

Really man?? This is not the hill you want to die on. It's been combatted both reasonably* and unreasonably for weeks. It's fine that you view those bullet points as positives, but most die hard LV fans aren't. But since you want someone to combat it, here you go:

1. 4th in the SEC (KJH worst finish)
- Lady Vols have 35 combined SEC titles in program history. 18 Regular season titles and 17 Conference Tournament titles. Kellie Harper has won ONE conference title in her entire 20 year coaching history (2006-2007 Western Carolina Southern Conference Champs)

2. NCAA tournament
- Lady Vols are the only team in NCAA history to play in every NCAA tournament. Kellie continued that tradition but was clearly trending down, and quickly. The Lady Vols spent over half of the season NOT even in consideration on the bubble. She did make back to back sweet 16's. That is the floor for the Lady Vol brand, NOT the ceiling. TN went to 27 (TWENTY SEVEN) straight Sweet 16's from 1982-2008. When we failed to reach the S16 in 2009 it sent shockwaves through women's basketball. We then went to 7 straight S16s again from 2010-2017.

3. First round win
- What is this? We are not the sisters of the poor university. WE ARE THE TENNESSEE LADY VOLS. (see #2 for clarification)

4. Banked buzzer beater from SEC Championship game
- see #3, see #1. Zero SEC titles in her tenure at TN, but yes, we were a banked shot away from playing for one in 2024. YAY!

5. 4th Consecutive 1st round WNBA draft pick
- Imagine having a team in 2023 that had TWO top 10 draft picks and only making the S16. Imagine having a top pick AND the ACC's leading scorer on your team in 2024 and not making it past game one (see #2 above). This is (my personal) biggest indictment against Kellie. ALL that talent and yet she couldn't coach them anything past a S16.

6. 20 wins
- 20 wins and lots of losses. Kellie's 25 losses over the last two years is the highest percentage of losses over a two year span in 48 years of Tennessee basketball history. You have to go all the way back to Pat Summit's first two years with the LV's to find a higher 2 year losing percentage.


NOW, it's your turn. I'm waiting, and I need to get to bed soon.. so be thorough but quick.

1. Are we counting regular season and tournament titles? I’m confused since you mentioned both. Because it’s more than “ONE” if it’s tournament.

2. Agreed, good argument there. I think we should be in the sweet 16. I do think, however, that there is way more competition now compared to 2008 and especially prior to that.

3. Yes, yay. Agreed. We won.

4. Yes very unfortunate. While we didn’t get there, it will be one of the luckiest shots in WBB history.

5. This is an advocation for player development. She shouldn’t get a strike for developing good players in my opinion. Example: Spear wasn’t the best player in the ACC. She was a good player who lead the league in scoring.

6. The best point to make. I agree. The counter is that no one is firing their 20 win coach. That’s all I’m saying.

As for the ranked record… I think we should have done better. There’s been a lot of close games as well as some unfortunate circumstances (see injuries). We have scheduled too tough. We have also been incredibly unlucky (see above on a few games). As a proponent of KJH, I at least will admit the objections head on. I only ask that the detractors are fairly considerate as well.

 

[Lucy]

Well, I would hope whoever the hire is that we would support them for at least a year before we rip them. I know that won happen.
No matter who is hired some posters will immediately say that is a terrible hire for whatever reason. But they will try to cover their base by saying, “I hope I’m wrong”, but really they hope they are right so they can come here and gloat about how smart they were saying, see, I told you”.

Gosh no one ever comes on here and gloats, dances on graves and says I told you so!

 

[Tnphil]

TNPhil blasts but gives no solutions. Ik how to read. Volstyle jumped in.

12-37 12-37 gotcha! Haha y’all Kellie lovers GOTCHAAAAAA

U CANT DEFEND U CANT DEFEND

Then goes to say anyone could do it here but won’t name names

You the boss here!! I must have missed the memo.

 

[ThreatLevelOrange]

There was a clip on Finebaum today where he said "He's hearing from a lot of angry Lady Vol fans upset about the decision." This is why you don't hire from the Summit tree anymore - when it ends (as it has both times) it's bad. People have an inability to separate out their feelings towards Kellie the LVFL player, and Kellie the coach. If she didn't have that LVFL moniker attached to her name, every national media outlet would be saying this was a great decision .... as would most Lady Vol fans.

look at the coaching resumes of Warlick and Harper and we hired one coach with no head coaching experience and another that was fired from the only major conference job she had. Not good enough…on the way in. They basically coached to the level they were capable of. But add the VFL badge and people get emotionally attached to their dismissals.

 

[papatomany]

I think he is the guy, again just my gut here. But Oregon State is dropping to a lower conference next season, and the time to get him is now. The guy can coach his ass off.

You might want to go look at the numbers. He won the Pac12 3 years in a row, the last one being the 16-17 season. Since then, he's not finished higher than 3rd. From 20-21 through last season he was 42-40 and finished 5th, 8th, and 10th. This year they made a nice tournament run, but were still only 4th in the conference. It's Holly-esque.

 

[Volstylexx]

If offered, do you think Wes would take the job with how close he is with the Harpers?

I know the question was not offered to me, but he seemed genuinely upset that he had to play Kellie and Jon in the NCAA's. I think he knew there was a realistic shot that if he beat her, she loses her job. He seems to genuinely care about her and her family and I think he would have a hard time dealing with that (getting her fired AND taking her job). For those reasons, I think he's probably inclined to stay where he's at (coming off a Final 4) and riding off into retirement after 5 more years. He would have been a slam dunk, program restoring hire had we hired him instead of Kellie the first time.

 

[VolFuture]

You the boss here!! I must have missed the memo.

U did

 

[ThreatLevelOrange]

I know the question was not offered to me, but he seemed genuinely upset that he had to play Kellie and Jon in the NCAA's. I think he knew there was a realistic shot that if he beat her, she loses her job. He seems to genuinely care about her and her family and I think he would have a hard time dealing with that (getting her fired AND taking her job). For those reasons, I think he's probably inclined to stay where he's at (coming off a Final 4) and riding off into retirement after 5 more years. He would have been a slam dunk, program restoring hire had we hired him instead of Kellie the first time.

Wes Moore is 67 years old. Is this a Barnes move where you just get him to stabilize and then hand it off in 5 years? Doesn’t make sense now.

 

[ttharp]

I know the question was not offered to me, but he seemed genuinely upset that he had to play Kellie and Jon in the NCAA's. I think he knew there was a realistic shot that if he beat her, she loses her job. He seems to genuinely care about her and her family and I think he would have a hard time dealing with that (getting her fired AND taking her job). For those reasons, I think he's probably inclined to stay where he's at (coming off a Final 4) and riding off into retirement after 5 more years. He would have been a slam dunk, program restoring hire had we hired him instead of Kellie the first time.

Thanks for chiming in! I agree!

 

[BisonVol]

Well, I would hope whoever the hire is that we would support them for at least a year before we rip them. I know that won happen.
No matter who is hired some posters will immediately say that is a terrible hire for whatever reason. But they will try to cover their base by saying, “I hope I’m wrong”, but really they hope they are right so they can come here and gloat about how smart they were saying, see, I told you”.

There will be some who won’t be on board unless the new coach immediately improves upon Kellie’s results due to the emotional attachment to Kellie. Same thing happened when Fulmer unseated Johnny. There was a faction of Johnny supporters who were burnt bad by his firing and were detached from the program for a while afterwards.

Kellie didn’t leave the roster in a good spot which is largely why she is no longer the coach. Whoever is hired will have to work quickly to bring in gals who can play at this level and potentially encourage a couple of current players to explore their options. That’ll be the only way to not take a step back next season.

 

[Volstylexx]

1. Are we counting regular season and tournament titles? I’m confused since you mentioned both. Because it’s more than “ONE” if it’s tournament.

2. Agreed, good argument there. I think we should be in the sweet 16. I do think, however, that there is way more competition now compared to 2008 and especially prior to that.

3. Yes, yay. Agreed. We won.

4. Yes very unfortunate. While we didn’t get there, it will be one of the luckiest shots in WBB history.

5. This is an advocation for player development. She shouldn’t get a strike for developing good players in my opinion. Example: Spear wasn’t the best player in the ACC. She was a good player who lead the league in scoring.

6. The best point to make. I agree. The counter is that no one is firing their 20 win coach. That’s all I’m saying.

As for the ranked record… I think we should have done better. There’s been a lot of close games as well as some unfortunate circumstances (see injuries). We have scheduled too tough. We have also been incredibly unlucky (see above on a few games). As a proponent of KJH, I at least will admit the objections head on. I only ask that the detractors are fairly considerate as well.

Fair. Differing viewpoint from my own, but who cares. My opinion and feelings are no more valid than your own. I think we can both agree that if she was at 99.9% of other schools, she'd still have her job. The history at TN is what makes us special, and I think Danny White knows he has a limited time to recapture that. If the next one doesn't do it, then I think we become the type of program where 20 wins and a second round exit probably becomes celebrated.. but for right now, there still TOO many of us alive who remember the program for what it was, and yearn for that again.

 

[Lucy]

If he doesn’t make the 12 team playoff while we have Nico, then he will get plenty of criticism. Fired? Probably not as long as the record isn’t a disaster. Context again comes into play here. That’s a program that has had seven head coaches since 2009 and seven losing seasons since 2009. It needs stability.

The LV basketball program is hiring its fourth coach ever and has still not missed an ncaa tournament. Very different situations.

So how many years does he get? Do we think DW will be firing his guy if in three years we still can’t beat Georgia?

 

[Tnphil]

I know the question was not offered to me, but he seemed genuinely upset that he had to play Kellie and Jon in the NCAA's. I think he knew there was a realistic shot that if he beat her, she loses her job. He seems to genuinely care about her and her family and I think he would have a hard time dealing with that (getting her fired AND taking her job). For those reasons, I think he's probably inclined to stay where he's at (coming off a Final 4) and riding off into retirement after 5 more years. He would have been a slam dunk, program restoring hire had we hired him instead of Kellie the first time.

Agree...Should have been offered before Kellie but that ship has sailed for us and him... Problem was he was not a former Summitt player. Bet it won't matter this hire.

 

[BisonVol]

So how many years does he get? Do we think DW will be firing his guy if in three years we still can’t beat Georgia?

If it’s just a matter of him not beating Georgia, of course not. That would be like firing Kellie if her only fault was that she couldn’t get past South Carolina.

 

[ttharp]

If it’s just a matter of him not beating Georgia, of course not. That would be like firing Kellie if her only fault was that she couldn’t get past South Carolina.

Exactly. Gotta look at the overall body of work, but unfortunately that makes too much sense to some on here.

 

[Tnphil]

Do you see the problem with pairing 4 straight WNBA 1st round picks with "12 -37"?

I don't think you do.

Yep...Don't believe I would have brought that up with her record against the elite teams.

 

[Volstylexx]

There will be some who won’t be on board unless the new coach immediately improves upon Kellie’s results due to the emotional attachment to Kellie. Same thing happened when Fulmer unseated Johnny. There was a faction of Johnny supporters who were burnt bad by his firing and were detached from the program for a while afterwards.

Kellie didn’t leave the roster in a good spot which is largely why she is no longer the coach. Whoever is hired will have to work quickly to bring in gals who can play at this level and potentially encourage a couple of current players to explore their options. That’ll be the only way to not take a step back next season.

I think this is such an overlooked part of the story here. Kellie will have arguably left the program in the worst condition it's been in since Pat took over 50 years ago. The lack of recruiting high school players means there are ZERO recruits in the pipeline. Pro-Kellie crowd will use it as "TOLD YOU TO KEEP HER" if the next coach doesn't quickly surpass her recruits. I also think this is why a BIG fish is needed. You have to bring someone in who can bring their own players or lure big ones from the portal. There is literally nothing in the kitchen cubbard.

 

[BisonVol]

Exactly. Gotta look at the overall body of work, but unfortunately that makes too much sense to some on here.

Some are just very emotionally attached to LVFL’s. It’s the nature of the beast when you hire one of your own and it doesn’t work out. Some people are too emotionally attached to Kellie to be able to differentiate between Kellie Harper the player & person and Kellie Harper the head basketball coach. Like I said earlier, it was the same when Johnny got fired.

I don’t see the logic in keeping her strictly based off results, but I also don’t fault fans for loving former players. It’s just tough business for all involved when a move like this is made.

Frankly that’s why Kara Lawson doesn’t even need to be considered for the position. Hiring your own is like hiring a sibling to work for you. If you ever have to move on from them, there are going to be a lot of hurt feelings.

 

[Proud Army Wife]

Really man?? This is not the hill you want to die on. It's been combatted both reasonably* and unreasonably for weeks. It's fine that you view those bullet points as positives, but most die hard LV fans aren't. But since you want someone to combat it, here you go:

1. 4th in the SEC (KJH worst finish)
- Lady Vols have 35 combined SEC titles in program history. 18 Regular season titles and 17 Conference Tournament titles. Kellie Harper has won ONE conference title in her entire 20 year coaching history (2006-2007 Western Carolina Southern Conference Champs)

2. NCAA tournament
- Lady Vols are the only team in NCAA history to play in every NCAA tournament. Kellie continued that tradition but was clearly trending down, and quickly. The Lady Vols spent over half of the season NOT even in consideration on the bubble. She did make back to back sweet 16's. That is the floor for the Lady Vol brand, NOT the ceiling. TN went to 27 (TWENTY SEVEN) straight Sweet 16's from 1982-2008. When we failed to reach the S16 in 2009 it sent shockwaves through women's basketball. We then went to 7 straight S16s again from 2010-2017.

3. First round win
- What is this? We are not the sisters of the poor university. WE ARE THE TENNESSEE LADY VOLS. (see #2 for clarification)

4. Banked buzzer beater from SEC Championship game
- see #3, see #1. Zero SEC titles in her tenure at TN, but yes, we were a banked shot away from playing for one in 2024. YAY!

5. 4th Consecutive 1st round WNBA draft pick
- Imagine having a team in 2023 that had TWO top 10 draft picks and only making the S16. Imagine having a top pick AND the ACC's leading scorer on your team in 2024 and not making it past game one (see #2 above). This is (my personal) biggest indictment against Kellie. ALL that talent and yet she couldn't coach them anything past a S16.

6. 20 wins
- 20 wins and lots of losses. Kellie's 25 losses over the last two years is the highest percentage of losses over a two year span in 48 years of Tennessee basketball history. You have to go all the way back to Pat Summit's first two years with the LV's to find a higher 2 year losing percentage.


NOW, it's your turn. I'm waiting, and I need to get to bed soon.. so be thorough but quick.

I read this in a severely sarcastic tone and laughed way too hard lol.

 

[cgrish]

Didn’t see that coming at all. Props to him for being willing to make a bold decision that was also the correct one.

Whether it is correct or not depends on who we get.