Cultural Marxism and the Birth of Thought Crime

#2
#2
Political correctness has always existed on the right, too. It just manifests itself in a different way. Just like liberals have always freaked out when you badmouth their pet ideas and beliefs, conservatives freak out about patriotism and religion.

It's human nature and it's not special to the left.
 
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#3
#3
n_huffhines said:
Political correctness has always existed on the right, too. It just manifests itself in a different way. Just like liberals have always freaked out when you badmouth their pet ideas and beliefs, conservatives freak out about patriotism and religion.

It's human nature and it's not special to the left.
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The political correctness on the right largely went away when the political power of the Moral Majority/Pat Robertson/Jerry Falwell coalition went away.

Political correctness is much more than simply "freaking out" when you hear opinions you disagree with. It's one thing to simply dislike it when you hear an opinion you don't like. It's quite another to attempt to silence that person in some way and attack their character for holding that opinion.

In my view, this type of intolerance comes mostly from the left now, not the right, which is ironic considering how the left holds themselves up as champions of tolerance.
 
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#5
#5
05_never_again said:
The political correctness on the right largely went away when the political power of the Moral Majority/Pat Robertson/Jerry Falwell coalition went away.

Political correctness is much more than simply "freaking out" when you hear opinions you disagree with. It's one thing to simply dislike it when you hear an opinion you don't like. It's quite another to attempt to silence that person in some way and attack their character for holding that opinion.

In my view, this type of intolerance comes mostly from the left now, not the right, which is ironic considering how the left holds themselves up as champions of tolerance.
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Ever heard of Colin Kaepernick? Go read a thread about him and tell me people aren't trying to silence him by attacking his character, and his possible motives, and his football skill, etc.

Tebow grabs the mic from the sideline reporter and praises God. Conservatives cheer him on. Arian Foster is asked about his religion in a private interview and he says he is an atheist. Conservatives exclaim, "who cares you attention whore?!"
 
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#6
#6
n_huffhines said:
Ever heard of Colin Kaepernick? Go read a thread about him and tell me people aren't trying to silence him by attacking his character, and his possible motives, and his football skill, etc.

Tebow grabs the mic from the sideline reporter and praises God. Conservatives cheer him on. Arian Foster is asked about his religion in a private interview and he says he is an atheist. Conservatives exclaim, "who cares you attention whore?!"
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Just as many people hate Tim Tebow as do love him, and it's for precisely the same reason.
 
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#7
#7
n_huffhines said:
Ever heard of Colin Kaepernick? Go read a thread about him and tell me people aren't trying to silence him by attacking his character, and his possible motives, and his football skill, etc.

Tebow grabs the mic from the sideline reporter and praises God. Conservatives cheer him on. Arian Foster is asked about his religion in a private interview and he says he is an atheist. Conservatives exclaim, "who cares you attention whore?!"
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And when Tebow prayed the left said there was no place for that on the field. Kaepernick kneels and it's stunning and brave and needs to be covered by three cameras.
 
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#9
#9
n_huffhines said:
Ever heard of Colin Kaepernick? Go read a thread about him and tell me people aren't trying to silence him by attacking his character, and his possible motives, and his football skill, etc.

Tebow grabs the mic from the sideline reporter and praises God. Conservatives cheer him on. Arian Foster is asked about his religion in a private interview and he says he is an atheist. Conservatives exclaim, "who cares you attention whore?!"
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Also, all of those examples you gave are of people who are polarizing, not because any one of them are attempting to be silenced. There are a lot of people, especially in the media, who are 100% on board with what Kaepernick is trying to do.

I'm talking about intolerance, where you attempt to shut down people who have a difference of opinion. In Canada, there is a bill being discussed in Parliament that would make it a criminal offense to say anything "directly or indirectly offensive" to a transgender person, which would include things like not using "non-binary gender pronouns," even if it was accidental. The bakery in Colorado that refused to bake a cake for a gay wedding was essentially shut down after a bunch of protests and threats were directed their way.

To the social justice warriors, it isn't good enough to just be indifferent to one of their causes. It's not good enough to not care about or be indifferent towards Caitlyn Jenner's "transition" - you must think he (she?) is a hero and is the most deserving person of an ESPY Courage award ever, and if you don't agree you're a bigot. If you don't passionately agree with them, then you are (insert name here). The rise of "safe spaces" and "trigger warnings" on college campuses are the cases in point of this, and those places are the hubs and incubators of leftist thought.
 
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#10
#10
DancingOutlaw said:
And when Tebow prayed the left said there was no place for that on the field. Kaepernick kneels and it's stunning and brave and needs to be covered by three cameras.
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What? Link?

I never once heard anybody comment on his praying. I saw people Tebowing and I saw people telling him to shut up about God in his postgame interviews, but I never heard of this.
 
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#11
#11
05_never_again said:
It's not good enough to not care about or be indifferent towards Caitlyn Jenner's "transition" - you must think he (she?) is a hero and is the most deserving person of an ESPY Courage award ever, and if you don't agree you're a bigot. If you don't passionately agree with them, then you are (insert name here).
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The hyperbole expressed here discredits you. I would bet a lot of money that only the most fringe of the left has ever said "if you don't think she's a hero you are a bigot", and they definitely didn't stipulate the most deserving ever.

I think we can all agree that fringe people are crazy on both sides. Let's talk about the people that are more representative of widely-held opinion and try to come to an understanding with them. You're never going to get anywhere if you view/portray the left as all being extremists.
 
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#12
#12
n_huffhines said:
The hyperbole expressed here discredits you. I would bet a lot of money that only the most fringe of the left has ever said "if you don't think she's a hero you are a bigot", and they definitely didn't stipulate the most deserving ever.

I think we can all agree that fringe people are crazy on both sides. Let's talk about the people that are more representative of widely-held opinion and try to come to an understanding with them. You're never going to get anywhere if you view/portray the left as all being extremists.
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The extreme reactions to opinions that they disagree with does not lie solely on the extreme left. I just cited the example of the proposed Canadian law - this is currently being discussed in their Parliament and is backed by their PM. The safe spaces, trigger warnings, and extreme sensitivity to offending people is mainstream thought on college campuses.

I agree with you that in the past, these types of reactions came from people on the right. Jerry Falwell, who had mainstream clout at the time, even blamed gays and the ACLU for 9/11.
 
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#13
#13
05_never_again said:
The extreme reactions to opinions that they disagree with does not lie solely on the extreme left. I just cited the example of the proposed Canadian law - this is currently being discussed in their Parliament and is backed by their PM. The safe spaces, trigger warnings, and extreme sensitivity to offending people is mainstream thought on college campuses.

I agree with you that in the past, these types of reactions came from people on the right. Jerry Falwell, who had mainstream clout at the time, even blamed gays and the ACLU for 9/11.
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We just now are legalizing gay marriage and conservatives fought it tooth and nail. Banning/silencing ideas we don't like is exactly what is the matter with political correctness. I don't understand why you think the right's version of it went away.
 
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#14
#14
n_huffhines said:
We just now are legalizing gay marriage and conservatives fought it tooth and nail. Banning/silencing ideas we don't like is exactly what is the matter with political correctness. I don't understand why you think the right's version of it went away.
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So did Hillary Clinton and Obama and a host of liberal politicians, until public opinion started changing in the late 2000s. There was even a moment in the 2008 VP debate where Biden and Palin agreed on gay marriage (both were against gay marriage but for civil unions). I agree that the passion on that issue was from the right, but mainstream thought until the last 10 years ago was firmly against gay marriage. Millennials, both liberal and conservative, really helped sway public opinion on that the politicians responded.

We'll agree to disagree I suppose, but I think most of the conversational intolerance now lies on the left. You'll even find commentators who are on the left or lean left (Bill Maher, Dave Rubin come to mind) who agree with this and criticize their own for being intolerant. Frankly, I think their increased aggressiveness is because the left ultimately defeated the right on the issue of gay marriage. Now they are overplaying their hand, and it will eventually swing the other direction.

Everything is cyclical. The hippie movement was inspired in part as a revolt to the traditional, white picket fence image of the post-war era. The Moral Majority/Pat Robertsons of the world were inspired in part as a result of the hippie movement.
 
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#15
#15
05_never_again said:
Also, all of those examples you gave are of people who are polarizing, not because any one of them are attempting to be silenced. There are a lot of people, especially in the media, who are 100% on board with what Kaepernick is trying to do.

I'm talking about intolerance, where you attempt to shut down people who have a difference of opinion. In Canada, there is a bill being discussed in Parliament that would make it a criminal offense to say anything "directly or indirectly offensive" to a transgender person, which would include things like not using "non-binary gender pronouns," even if it was accidental. The bakery in Colorado that refused to bake a cake for a gay wedding was essentially shut down after a bunch of protests and threats were directed their way.

To the social justice warriors, it isn't good enough to just be indifferent to one of their causes. It's not good enough to not care about or be indifferent towards Caitlyn Jenner's "transition" - you must think he (she?) is a hero and is the most deserving person of an ESPY Courage award ever, and if you don't agree you're a bigot. If you don't passionately agree with them, then you are (insert name here). The rise of "safe spaces" and "trigger warnings" on college campuses are the cases in point of this, and those places are the hubs and incubators of leftist thought.
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In a way it's reassuring that there are still countries who every now and then try to outdo our wacko leftest loons. Apparently, for some strange reason, I never put Canada in that category.
 
#16
#16
n_huffhines said:
Ever heard of Colin Kaepernick? Go read a thread about him and tell me people aren't trying to silence him by attacking his character, and his possible motives, and his football skill, etc.

Tebow grabs the mic from the sideline reporter and praises God. Conservatives cheer him on. Arian Foster is asked about his religion in a private interview and he says he is an atheist. Conservatives exclaim, "who cares you attention whore?!"
Click to expand...

The difference I see is that PC from the left uses the power of authority to sanction the speech. Your examples from the right are individuals complaining about speech they don't like.

I agree it happens on both sides but it is the enforcement issue via authority mechanisms that is the more worrisome to me.
 
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#17
#17
Complaining about "political correctness" or sjw is just code for,"I'm mad I can't say racist and sexist things and get away with it".
 
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#19
#19
volinbham said:
The difference I see is that PC from the left uses the power of authority to sanction the speech. Your examples from the right are individuals complaining about speech they don't like.

I agree it happens on both sides but it is the enforcement issue via authority mechanisms that is the more worrisome to me.
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I agree. Really it's all about who holds the political power. Safe spaces fly on campus because of campus politics. They can get away with that nonsense in their little bubble.

The (religious) right just doesn't have the power they once had. I mean, we (Americans) used to be able to kill people for being witches. Now we can't even discriminate in our place of business. The left now definitely has more authoritarian power in this regard.
 
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#20
#20
n_huffhines said:
I agree. Really it's all about who holds the political power. Safe spaces fly on campus because of campus politics. They can get away with that nonsense in their little bubble.

The (religious) right just doesn't have the power they once had. I mean, we (Americans) used to be able to kill people for being witches. Now we can't even discriminate in our place of business. The left now definitely has more authoritarian power in this regard.
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That's absolutely right and why I said that it is the left, not the right, that is more intolerant now.
 
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#21
#21
05_never_again said:
That's absolutely right and why I said that it is the left, not the right, that is more intolerant now.
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That's not what I'm saying. I am saying the left has more power to be outwardly intolerant. I'm saying both sides have indistinguishable levels of intolerance.

If you are socially allowed to call someone "whitey" and do it, are you anymore intolerant than the person who doesn't say "blacky" only because of consequences?
 
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#23
#23
n_huffhines said:
That's not what I'm saying. I am saying the left has more power to be outwardly intolerant. I'm saying both sides have indistinguishable levels of intolerance.

If you are socially allowed to call someone "whitey" and do it, are you anymore intolerant than the person who doesn't say "blacky" only because of consequences?
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"Intolerance" does not equal "I don't like what someone says."

Both sides have equal levels of "I don't like what the other side says."

At the moment, it is the left, in my opinion, that is more intolerant - meaning they actively try and silence those that disagree with them, either by dictate (via legislation, safe spaces on campuses, etc.) or by smearing those that disagree with them.
 
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#24
#24
Orangedogsrule said:
I can say this, .. you are the most racist poster on the PF.
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If you think that you have literally no idea of what that word means.

Aww is someone mad they can't go around and be racist and sexist without worriying about being "pc"? :cray::cray::cray::cray::cray::cray:
 
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