Has the SEC diluted its "Brand"?

[99gator]

I disagree, where all the 8-4 records would leave us to believe that the SEC is down, it is NOT. TN, GA, FL, LSU, AU only have the records they have BECAUSE, Vandy, ARK, UK, AND USC are playing ABOVE their traditional roles in certain games! The proof will be in the bowl games. Most of the bowl games won't be close! I see a SEC SWEEP COMMING!

No. just no.

All of Spurrier's teams at Florida that did not win championships (except the 92 squad) go 11-0 before losing to Bama and I'm not kidding.

And they would have had a respectable showing against Bama too, not that farce we witnessed.

 

[BanditVol]

Honestly, who gives a f---? I just want the Vols to win.

The rest of the conference can go to h-ll, brand and all.

Particularly the ro tards can go there and roast for all eternity.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

So looking at the conference results this year I got to wondering has the brand been diluted. By this I mean at 14 teams is the conference now too big to provide enough blue chip players and coaches across the board. It's just a pondering but look at the number of down programs this year.

There aren't 14 "Sabans" to be had.

Players wanting to play in this conference have more options now.

Are we getting a proportionally larger number of blue chip players at 14 teams? Like 14/12ths more?

The conference beats itself up playing the conference schedule.

I'm sure there are other things to consider. But is 14 too big? Is that an issue for the conference as a whole? Does it help or hinder the overall product on the field. It's obvious that more teams is more events is more revenue etc... But that only sustains if the product warrants a premium.

Thoughts?

I think there is plenty of validity to what you are saying.

14 programs instead of 10 or 12 fighting for recruits primarily across the SE is going to shallow the talent pool and spread it out more.

The arms race with everyone going after bigger and better coaches has evened things up as well. Bama just trumped everyone with Saban though. Everyone in the league has a solid pedigree.

No way it's going to go back to 12 any time soon though with the money on the table. Far more likely to jump to 16.

 

[BanditVol]

I disagree it is Bama's fault. Look at the coaching carousel the fast few years. Look at the turnover and the lack of time coaches are given or getting fired after just winning 9 or 10 games?

Every fan base wants to be like Bama and it's just not going to happen... Not now not ever,

Assemble a team led by Bear Bryant jr to collect $25 million. Use it to pay off Shula's buyout, and maybe even some of Dubose. Use it to pay the first year of what was then a record breaking salary for Saban. Use it for much needed facility improvements. Maybe even to subsidize Saban's house, though I am not sure about that.

At the end of the day, you have $10-12 million left. And what do you do with that? But forget that original war chest...think of all the contributions rolling in since 2007.

Six number one recruiting classes in row...it ain't cheap but it pays off!

I live in bammer. In March 2007, several bammer alumni I know were talking about the "war chest". It was a real thing. They are really closed mouthed about it now, but believe me, it was widely discussed in 2007.

Bottom line....if you want to beat bammer, assemble a ton of cash, find some bag men, and get to work. It's the only way.

 

[wmcovol]

I am in the minority here, but Alabama is not the problem.

No one has their house in order right now and that's not Bama's fault.

A lot of teams have to fix themselves and then if they get beat by Bama, they can still run out and claim they are quality team.

Gator is right. Alabama is simply benefiting from the gross mismanagement of programs throughout the SEC. It's not just football, SECbasketball is at all time low outside of Ky, women's hoops has fallen.

 

[Cartervol]

I disagree, where all the 8-4 records would leave us to believe that the SEC is down, it is NOT. TN, GA, FL, LSU, AU only have the records they have BECAUSE, Vandy, ARK, UK, AND USC are playing ABOVE their traditional roles in certain games! The proof will be in the bowl games. Most of the bowl games won't be close! I see a SEC SWEEP COMMING!

SEC out of conference record isn't all that wonderful this year. I don't see it. I think the traditional powers in the SEC just slid back to those teams, not the other way around..

 

[NorthDallas40]

Woke up this morning and checked back. Good discussion and good points all around.

I don't think we're going back down to 12 and I don't really feel we should. Was just pondering the long term impact of 14

I do agree the best measure of a conference's strength is their OOC record. Minus the FCS games of course. Schedule/ranking wise I don't think there's any upside on FCS games.

And yeah the true measure to a large degree is the Bowl schedule results. If SEC goes.750+ in this bowl season I think it's a fair argument that the SEC is still dominant. You are what your record says you are.

 

[volfannbama]

The SEC is simply not the most dominate conference. Their are plenty of blue chip players to go around, however Alabamas bagmen are simply outbidding every school for every player they want. The kids want a shot at the league.and a mediocre (in terms of chances at nfl) player will go to Alabama for the benefit of looking better than they actaully are and get the benefit of the doubt.

 

[TulsaVol]

It's been diluted by the rabid fan bases becoming too impatient and unrealistic. There are a minimum of 7 schools (Bama, Auburn, LSU, A&M, TN, FLA, and GA) that EXPECT to win at least 10 games every year and be in the SEC championship every year. When that doesn't happen, coaches are fired and rebuilding begins. Even the middle of the road schools have extreme expectations. It's simple math, there are 56 SEC games every year so there's going to be a minimum of 56 losses every year. Fan bases can't accept that and constant coaching turnover hurts the quality put on the field

I wouldn't throw TN in that list of firing and rebuilding like the others....our Admin run by Bama Dave is quite happy with mediocrity.

 

[99gator]

Woke up this morning and checked back. Good discussion and good points all around.

I don't think we're going back down to 12 and I don't really feel we should. Was just pondering the long term impact of 14

I do agree the best measure of a conference's strength is their OOC record. Minus the FCS games of course. Schedule/ranking wise I don't think there's any upside on FCS games.

And yeah the true measure to a large degree is the Bowl schedule results. If SEC goes.750+ in this bowl season I think it's a fair argument that the SEC is still dominant. You are what your record says you are.

I can speak to Florida for a second. Do you know what has hurt Florida recently?

It's not FSU. It's not Miami. It's not even Alabama. Although, God knows it would have been fun if guys like Derrick Henry and Amari Cooper stayed in state.

It's been Clemson. Clemson has beaten Florida for a boat load of players in Florida.

There hasn't been a single recruit lost to a program that is not a usual suspect with the exception of Ole Miss. and we all have our suspicions about Ole Miss

 

[sanefan]

I do not think that adding the two teams to go from 12 to 14 dilutes the talent unless you assume that the players at those schools would be on SEC rosters if they were still in the Big 12.

Dilution occurs when you spread the same players over more teams like adding pro teams. These schools were already recruiting, signing, and playing.

So no. Adding two teams is not diluting talent from the other schools.

 

[mccrackb]

Tennessee hasnt won the east because in recent years they couldnt beat anybody, let alone alabama....which is the kind of thing im talking about.

The last two seasons, they contended. One year, they lost to florida and that was the bigger problem. This year, they lost 2 games you simply cant lose.

Hey there Gator, how bout we automatically have a loss on our schedule every year having to play Bama. How did it go for y'all yesterday.

 

[volfan102455]

I am in the minority here, but Alabama is not the problem.

No one has their house in order right now and that's not Bama's fault.

A lot of teams have to fix themselves and then if they get beat by Bama, they can still run out and claim they are quality team.

I think the playoffs will be an indication of whether you are right or not. If Alabama plows through the two teams like they plowed through the SEC, then would you say that the entire country just doesn't have their house in order or that Alabama is just that good?

The team with the best record in the Big 10 did not even when the Big 10. The team that won the ACC got trashed by the 4th place team from the other division.

 

[NorthDallas40]

I can speak to Florida for a second. Do you know what has hurt Florida recently?

It's not FSU. It's not Miami. It's not even Alabama. Although, God knows it would have been fun if guys like Derrick Henry and Amari Cooper stayed in state.

It's been Clemson. Clemson has beaten Florida for a boat load of players in Florida.

There hasn't been a single recruit lost to a program that is not a usual suspect with the exception of Ole Miss. and we all have our suspicions about Ole Miss

There is way too much smoke around that program to not have some fire. When it does come to light it's going to be interesting to see how much institutional knowledge/participation is proven. Could just be a couple of overzealous donors! I doubt it tho.

Now on Clemson. Why the surge? Is it a resurgence or something completely new? Clemson isn't a historical power they have years they've been pretty damn good but they are not on my short list of historical power houses. And the ACC definately upped their conf rep with their additions. Probably more impact than the SEC I think. But they are a full state over from you guys. Losing a big number of recruits seems abit much. I would expect GA to snag them before Clemson

 

[volfannbama]

Hey there Gator, how bout we automatically have a loss on our schedule every year having to play Bama. How did it go for y'all yesterday.

Alabama usually has one loss every year, so good thing every team doesnt have this loser mentality.

 

[sona]

You could take the best players and coaches from every team not named bama, give them 6 months of prep and still not beat bama while Saban is there. I hate that team but they are on another level. Saban is killing the SEC.

 

[volfan102455]

There is way too much smoke around that program to not have some fire. When it does come to light it's going to be interesting to see how much institutional knowledge/participation is proven. Could just be a couple of overzealous donors! I doubt it tho.

Now on Clemson. Why the surge? Is it a resurgence or something completely new? Clemson isn't a historical power they have years they've been pretty damn good but they are not on my short list of historical power houses. And the ACC definately upped their conf rep with their additions. Probably more impact than the SEC I think. But they are a full state over from you guys. Losing a big number of recruits seems abit much. I would expect GA to snag them before Clemson

I think Clemson just hasn't got caught yet.

 

[99gator]

Hey there Gator, how bout we automatically have a loss on our schedule every year having to play Bama. How did it go for y'all yesterday.

When Tennessee has a league record of 7-1, I'll be willing to listen to this argument.

Saban has been at Alabama since 2007. How many years since did Tennessee win as many as 8 games? How many times did they beat Florida and control their own destiny in making it to Atlanta?

You all speak as if Alabama has been denying you football glory.

Tennessee had to lose 3 times for Florida to make it to Atlanta and they went and lost another. Did they play Alabama 4 times this season?

Tennessee and every other team in the league needs to address why it's an automatic loss.

 

[volfan102455]

I think the CFB playoffs are somewhat to blame for what seems to be the fall of the SEC.
For the last two years there seems to be more of an attraction for recruits to play for a top tier team in the other power 5 conferences, since, even if you lose your only tough game there is a good chance you make it in the playoffs. On the other hand, the SEC schedule is brutal, players are more prone to injury, and it is ever more difficult to go without losing at least two games.

I agree with this - the playoffs have afforded more opportunity for teams to play - Prior to that there were only 2 - the SEC champ was there every year so less opportunity - thus if you wanted to play in the championship game your chance was better at an SEC school. With 4 teams, if you are a player and you aren't offered at Alabama, you next best choice is going to be in the flavor of the year at one of the other power 5 conferences.

The question is whether expanding the number of teams to the playoff would dilute the SEC and spread the talent even thinner. Or would it force at least players back to some of the SEC schools since the SEC could probably secure 2 teams (most years) if more teams were selected.

I would like to see the playoff system go to 16 and include the champs from all 10 conferences. The other 6 would come from the Independents and from the "division winners" (or second place team). Key is a team has to win either their conference or be second to make the field of 16. That gives all conferences a similar chance at the playoffs.

I think you have the same issue with 8 that you have with 4 - better chance at a NON SEC P5 school as the second team or at one of the other 5 conference schools where the change to be undefeated may be higher.

 

[Iam4utalways]

You could take the best players and coaches from every team not named bama, give them 6 months of prep and still not beat bama while Saban is there. I hate that team but they are on another level. Saban is killing the SEC.

That's awesome. One of the funniest I've read.

Go Vols!

 

[maotai]

SEC out of conference record isn't all that wonderful this year. I don't see it. I think the traditional powers in the SEC just slid back to those teams, not the other way around..

I feel the same way. Vandy, SC, and Kentucky didn't become world beaters, the traditional powers crapped the bed in those losses.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

So looking at the conference results this year I got to wondering has the brand been diluted. By this I mean at 14 teams is the conference now too big to provide enough blue chip players and coaches across the board. It's just a pondering but look at the number of down programs this year.

There aren't 14 "Sabans" to be had.

Players wanting to play in this conference have more options now.

Are we getting a proportionally larger number of blue chip players at 14 teams? Like 14/12ths more?

The conference beats itself up playing the conference schedule.

I'm sure there are other things to consider. But is 14 too big? Is that an issue for the conference as a whole? Does it help or hinder the overall product on the field. It's obvious that more teams is more events is more revenue etc... But that only sustains if the product warrants a premium.

Thoughts?

Because of Alabama, it has become a one team conference with the other 13 teams wishing they did not have to play them. While is it great for Alabama, it is dragging the SEC down. Saban should be paid annually to retire and maybe the other teams could catch up. It is almost an automatic loss for the rest of the SEC West and Tennessee. Alabama should have to play 13 SEC games to even out the schedule.

 

[Creekcat]

Alabama can pick and choose the 4 & 5 star recruits. The rest of the SEC have to beg for them. The ones that don't get chosen by Bama, may find that choosing any other SEC school, not high on their list.

 

[ConMan]

I can speak to Florida for a second. Do you know what has hurt Florida recently?

It's not FSU. It's not Miami. It's not even Alabama. Although, God knows it would have been fun if guys like Derrick Henry and Amari Cooper stayed in state.

It's been Clemson. Clemson has beaten Florida for a boat load of players in Florida.

There hasn't been a single recruit lost to a program that is not a usual suspect with the exception of Ole Miss. and we all have our suspicions about Ole Miss

Its hurt us badly as well. In fulmers heyday we raided Virginia and both Carolinas

 

[IknoxvolsI]

I, for one, wish they would have not brought USCe and/or Arky in.