Has there ever been a coach that became GREAT after being terrible his first 3 years?

#51
#51
Trying to think of recent head coaches WITH comparable situations.
How about Dan Mullen?
2009 Mississippi State 5–7
2010 Mississippi State 9–4
2011 Mississippi State 7–6
That would be 21-17 for 3 years
2012 Mississippi State 9–4
2013 Mississippi State 7–6
That would be 37 - 27 for 5 years
Switched jobs and is 27-6 in 2+ years at Florida [Definitely more talent in Florida than at Miss St.]

Or how about the latest rage ... Hugh Freeze ( I am going to ignore the first 2 coaching stops and focus on Ole Miss). Let's also acknowledge that means he had 3 years of HC experience BEORE he took the Ole Miss job.
2012 Ole Miss 7-6
2013 Ole Miss 8-5
2014 Ole Miss 9-4
2015 Ole Miss 5-7
That would be 29-22 in 4 years. Not great, but he seems to be in high demand, now.

I am not trying to be an advocate nor adversarial toward Jeremy Pruitt. Just trying to look at relevant facts.

Here is one for you: Do you really believe that Phil Fulmer will knowingly LET Tennessee football go downhill under his watch?
Think about that for a minute. The guy bleeds orange. He loves Tennessee football. Donated his own money to Tennessee football.
Frankly, I just do not see it. I think he loves Tennessee. I am convinced that his loyalty will be to Tennessee (and football) ABOVE any coach regardless of whether he hired them or not.

I never wanted Jones, nor Strong, nor 'Do Little'. I hated the thought of putting the program in the hands of Schiano.
I thought Kiffin would be a good choice, but had reservations (based on Oakland owners remarks). He changed traditions away from the 'orange.' Strike 1! He did not listen to his dad, when he gave him sound advice. Strike 2! He slipped out of town like a dog with his tail tucked between his legs. YOU ARE OUT OF HERE. [Note: I still think Kiffin is a good Offensive mind, and he has mellowed...maybe. But you burned me once, shame on you. You do NOT get a chance to burn me again!!!] I would not welcome him back if he was the only coach who would take the job, for free!

Frankly, I wanted Gruden, but did not see it happening.
Peyton in Sept of this year was vocal about what Jeremy was doing, "... I believe in him and I think we are headed in the right direction.”

So where does that leave me...

We are NOT there! We were not EXPECTED to be there. A rb recruit said, they are not there, but they are headed in the right direction and he is seeing the progress. So, hopefully ... we are headed there.
I think Pruitt is learning (on the job training) and I think Phil is trying to help him.
I think CJP is taking responsibility for each and every loss (whether he deserves it or not). My brother's both played football. They blame the QB, they find fault with LBs, and they acknowledge that most of our woes are due to lack of experienced players.
I know he hates losing. I believe he is very frustrated. I think he is losing his patience (fired a coach at the start of the season, was short on a question this past weekend).
I think his lack of experience has been exacerbated in this strange pandemic situation.

I remember Coach Mike K (basketball) , talking about a 5 star player he recruited to Duke. Duke was losing games that season and the fans were irate that Coach K was not playing his 5 star player at all; then he played him occasionally; then the player got in for a few minutes a game. The fans were clamoring for the 5 star to start and play more. He finally said, "He will play, when he is ready to play."

CJP is not stupid. But it would be supremely stupid to play kids you know are not really ready to play to satisfy the whims of fans in the stands.
It is okay to be dissatisfied, I know I am. But trust the process and let it play out. And Trust Phil.
 
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#52
#52
volfan_89 said:
Sure we have a choice, my choice is I’m spending my Saturdays doing something worth my time, energy and money until Tennessee decides they care about winning or at least being competent again. I haven’t watched since Kentucky and I won’t until a change is made.
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Good luck with your choice, but don't think it will make any difference to the Vol football program.
 
#53
#53
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
To me this is why you gotta cut Pruitt lose right now. The likelihood he turns it around is unlikely. Most great coaches show that they're great by Year 3 or sooner. If there was a long history in recent years of coaches being terrible for 3 years then suddenly turning into powerhouses then there might be reason to hold out hope. But there isn't. So Tennessee would be stupid to hang on to Pruitt hoping he's the outlier rather than the rule.
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9-2
6-5-1
6-6
7-5
6-6

That's Nick Saban's 1st 5 years as HC with Toledo yr 1 and then Michigan st. He would've been fired at UT after 4th yr at Michigan St.
 
#55
#55
1967vol said:
Good luck with your choice, but don't think it will make any difference to the Vol football program.
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I doubt it will either, unless more fans start to make the same choice. My Saturdays have been immensely more enjoyable without watching the debacle that Tennessee football has become. If Tennessee doesn’t care about winning, why should I care about watching?
 
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#57
#57
tennesseeduke said:
9-2
6-5-1
6-6
7-5
6-6

That's Nick Saban's 1st 5 years as HC with Toledo yr 1 and then Michigan st. He would've been fired at UT after 4th yr at Michigan St.
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Also I went and looked up their record pre Saban...
Saban replaced a guy that was barely better than .500 overall and in his time there moved them to .584
 
#58
#58
I think the problem is comparing guys who were coaching at Michigan State, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Iowa State, etc. with someone at Tennessee.
Rightly or wrongly, a lot of us fans feel our program has standards higher than those programs. A 7-5 record at Michigan State with a win over Notre Dame and 4th ranked Penn State seems far far superior to a 7-5 record at Tennessee with no wins over ranked opponents and a home loss to Georgia State, and certainly better than a 2-5 record at Tennessee with a blowout loss to Kentucky and an 11 point loss to Arkansas.
 
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#60
#60
Our team was in a really bad spot when Pruitt came here. QB is the main reason we've been held back and have been unable to sustain momentum built by this staff. I know many of you are tired of hearing that, but it's the truth. Let him develop his own QB before we fire the guy - Bailey/Salter.

As for you not willing to do that, I can tell you we're not about to fire Pruitt and his staff after the strangest season nobody could foresee coming, with the financial shortfall all SEC schools are experiencing. Buckle up folks. It's either going to be a fun ride or a bumpy one, but it's certain we're gonna ride it for a while.
 
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#62
#62
Frank Beamer was mentioned alot so I guess all Pruitt has to do is recruit the next Michael Vick level talent. Oh never mind, Pruitt would probably still think that Guarantano gives us the best chance to win.
 
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#63
#63
touchdown-tony said:
I think the problem is comparing guys who were coaching at Michigan State, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Iowa State, etc. with someone at Tennessee.
Rightly or wrongly, a lot of us fans feel our program has standards higher than those programs. A 7-5 record at Michigan State with a win over Notre Dame and 4th ranked Penn State seems far far superior to a 7-5 record at Tennessee with no wins over ranked opponents and a home loss to Georgia State, and certainly better than a 2-5 record at Tennessee with a blowout loss to Kentucky and an 11 point loss to Arkansas.
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Exactly this. We expect to be competing for the east every year. 7-5 just isn’t going to cut. That should be our floor year. I’m not saying I expect immediate results or to beat Georgia and Florida every year but we should be able to keep things close and handle the teams we should beat. If a coach hasn’t proven they can get it done by year 3 then I doubt they’re the answer. Of course they’re a few exceptions, but that’s mainly today’s college football landscape.
 
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#64
#64
Volunteer08 said:
Our team was in a really bad spot when Pruitt came here. QB is the main reason we've been held back and have been unable to sustain momentum built by this staff. I know many of you are tired of hearing that, but it's the truth. Let him develop his own QB before we fire the guy - Bailey/Salter.

As for you not willing to do that, I can tell you we're not about to fire Pruitt and his staff after the strangest season nobody could foresee coming, with the financial shortfall all SEC schools are experiencing. Buckle up folks. It's either going to be a fun ride or a bumpy one, but it's certain we're gonna ride it for a while.
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That’s part of the problem, Bailey is “his guy” And he refuses to play him. I get that Bailey wasn’t ready to be the starter but he should’ve been given meaningful playing time from the start, this year is a free year eligibility wise and it wouldn’t have counted against him. It’s basically a redshirt year except Bailey could’ve played all year without it counting. There’s literally no reasonable excuse not to play him.
 
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#65
#65
volfan_89 said:
I doubt it will either, unless more fans start to make the same choice. My Saturdays have been immensely more enjoyable without watching the debacle that Tennessee football has become. If Tennessee doesn’t care about winning, why should I care about watching?
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For you, that is certainly the best choice. I watch more out of curiosity.
 
#66
#66
I saw this a while back, it is interesting.

Looking at past SEC Champions and their coaches' records in year 2 and 3 at the program they won the championship:

Orgeron: Year 2: 9-4/6-2 Year 3: 10-3/5-3

Saban (Bama): 12-2/8-0 division champ 14-0/8-0 SEC champ

Smart: 13-2/7-1 SEC Champ 11-3/7-1 division champ

Malzahn: Won SEC first year 8-5/4-4 7-6/2-6

Miles: Won division first year 11-2/6-2 12-2/6-2 SEC Champ

Chizik: 14-0/8-0 SEC Champ 8-5/4-4

Meyer: 13-1/7-1 SEC Champ 9-4/5-3

Richt: 13-1/7-1 SEC Champ 11-3/6-2

Tuberville: 9-4/6-2 division champ 7-5/5-3 division champ

Saban (LSU): 10-3/5-3 SEC Champ 8-5/5-3 division champ

Spurrier: 10-2/7-0 SEC Champ 9-4/6-2 division champ

DuBose: 7-5/4-4 10-3/7-1 SEC Champ

Fulmer: 10-2/7-1 8-4/5-3

Stallings: 7-5/5-2 11-1/6-1


Every coach had either won an SEC title, a division title, or won double digit games by year 3.
 
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#67
#67
I think the thread should be.....Has there even been a coach whose fan base turned on him so abruptly?

After Game 2 this year, he was on track to be one of our best coaches and after game 4 he is one of our worst coaches. I think that is the fastest turnaround I have ever seen on this board. Not saying its wrong, but just saying it was quick.
 
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#69
#69
GoBigOrangeVols said:
Frank Beamer was a combined 11-21-1 his first 3 seasons at Virginia Tech.

Johnny Majors was a combined 11-20 his first 3 seasons as a head coach (at Iowa State). He was also a combined 16-17-1 his first three seasons on the Hill (and he went 5-6 in his 4th year).
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Different time, coaches made 5 figures not 7 or 8 figures
 
#72
#72
05_never_again said:
There was nothing that indicated he was going to win a national title, especially at a place like LSU, which had been down for a considerable period of time when he took the job. His last season at Michigan St was nice, but it was also just one season.
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He'd recruited extremely well there. In 1997 Superprep, which was early in the recruiting coverage game, said Saban was out recruiting Michigan State's ranking more than any coach in the nation. He was recruiting in the top 15 nationally.

It was a process, he never had a losing season there even though they got placed on probation with scholarship losses, right after he took the job. They hadn't had a winning season in 5 years before he got there and he had one in year one.

He beat highly ranked Penn State, Michigan and #1 Ohio State even in the years before his final top 10 season. There were plenty of signs he'd be very good.

The massive amount of talent in Louisiana, and the SEC West being really bad for years, worked out well for him, and obviously he is a great great coach.
 
#74
#74
1967vol said:
All of these threads about firing Pruitt are useless. Just grin and accept it. You really have no choice because he isn't going anywhere regardless of the results this year. He will get another two years to show significant progress.
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I think he gets next season, but by no means is he guaranteed two more seasons. He has to show something in 2021.
 
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