I respect Fulmer a little more after each game we lose

#276
#276
hog88 said:
Fulmer lost to Memphis State with one of the most talented teams to ever play for UT. He lost to LSUs 3rd string QB with a berth in the NC game on the line, can we say Peach Bowl blowouts?
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Arkansas 99, when we were ranked #2, Maryland and Clemson in 2002 and 2003 bowl games, Vandy in 2005, in addition to the games above plus always finding new and creative ways to get embarrassed by Florida.
 
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#277
#277
VolArmy74 said:
Johnny won more games in his career. Rebuilt more programs. Won more conference championships, won the national title himself at a program he completely rebuilt. Fulmer lost to Memphis State with an NFL All-Pro team. Fulmer had his fingers in that Arkansas loss too. He was calling plays. Of course he was working on getting Johnny fired behind the scenes at the time too.
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Phil and Johnny both made very questionable game day decisions and lost games they should have easily won. Johnny seemed to have a mental breakdown vs Bama (outside of the 4 years in 80s) and Phil had the same issue with Florida. Both were too conservative and played not to lose vs playing to win. They are both VFLs as players and coaches but UT has had only one great coach. I think what Dickey accomplished is more impressive because he had a total rebuild. Had he stayed longer he would have easily been our 2nd best coach.
 
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#278
#278
Volizona said:
Phil and Johnny both made very questionable game day decisions and lost games they should have easily won. Johnny seemed to have a mental breakdown vs Bama (outside of the 4 years in 80s) and Phil had the same issue with Florida. Both were too conservative and played not to lose vs playing to win. They are both VFLs as players and coaches but UT has had only one great coach. I think what Dickey accomplished is more impressive because he had a total rebuild. Had he stayed longer he would have easily been our 2nd best coach.
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Majors had a total rebuild
 
#281
#281
whobethis16 said:
The rebuild wasn't as big as many act. It's not like he inherited 3 straight losing seasons. There were none. Yes, he had to turn it around, but it wasn't a dumpster fire like you're claiming.
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If you actually read my my post, I never claimed it was a dumpster fire. I accurately claimed it was a total rebuild.

Damn, we have some dumbass posters
 
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#282
#282
utfantilidie said:
We make a big deal about winning games nowadays he use to win blindfolded. I’m not sure we will ever get back within being 75% of the win production he produced . Recruiting is the key. Must needs. Vol for life , hate losing especially to Georgia.
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Pining away over your ex girlfriend is not healthy. Neither is pining away over a long gone coach. Time to move on.
 
#283
#283
sjt18 said:
You're talking about Heupel, right?

No. Not "really bad" teams. UT beat USCe and UK who both beat UF. UT is now in the upper tier of "middling". That's better than they've been in several years without accounting for what most people considered a really bad situation for Heupel to step into. Outside of a few of us on this board... most didn't expect UT to be as competitive as they've been. Many if not most thought UT would win less than 6 games. Some said 4 with only one SEC win.

This is by no means a "done deal". You are correct that UT lost two games to teams with less overall talent... though both are lead by serious Heisman candidates who made a huge difference in those games. Not "tooting my horn" but a few of us said before the season that UT had more talent even after the departures than 9 opponents. But I also predicted 6-8 wins because UT has not depth problems but quality of depth problems- and we've seen it.

There were some missed opportunities and are some remaining concerns around roster building. However three things have me positive.

One- What he did with the situation he inherited is very good considering the roster losses. He got a lot of production out of guys who had not previously produced much of anything.

Two- He has changed the culture amazingly fast. Players believe in him and are talking about it in VERY positive terms.

Three- And... buzz. I resisted when people were talking UT down earlier in the year but since they were able to pound that narrative into the minds of fans and recruits... they set the bar low enough that 7 wins has the talking heads praising UT and Heupel. I don't think he "overachieved" as much as the narrative will be if they take care of business and finish with 7 wins. If they add a bowl win then against a good opponent then it will ramp up even more.


IMO, his success now and in the future depends on what he does to build the roster before next fall. He needs to find quality HS players without regard to stars. But more importantly he needs to turn the table on the portal. He needs to bring in some great players who elevate both depth and quality of talent.
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He is still at a huge disadvantage until the sanctions or whatever we get have been determined. We know other schools are using that against him. His only hope until then in my opinion is hitting the portal hard, like the NFL waiver wire, or the Juco ranks. What do you say to a recruit deciding between Fla and Tn when they ask if Tn will be eligible for a bowl? In the case of Fla one might respond with is their coach going to be there.
 
#284
#284
USAFgolferVol said:
If you actually read my my post, I never claimed it was a dumpster fire. I accurately claimed it was a total rebuild.

Damn, we have some dumbass posters
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A total rebuild with the prospect of scholarship reductions, and a bowl ban. Difficult to rebuild quickly with those hanging around
 
#288
#288
beamerman said:
He is still at a huge disadvantage until the sanctions or whatever we get have been determined. We know other schools are using that against him. His only hope until then in my opinion is hitting the portal hard, like the NFL waiver wire, or the Juco ranks. What do you say to a recruit deciding between Fla and Tn when they ask if Tn will be eligible for a bowl? In the case of Fla one might respond with is their coach going to be there.
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You say yes. You tell the truth and say that the NCAA hasn't even initiated an investigation or sent notice of investigation. You tell them that UT has taken very aggressive action in response to the violations and that you do not anticipate the NCAA will be more severe or that any investigation they might conduct will conclude for a long time. Potentially someone signing now could complete their eligibility before the NCAA is done regardless of what they conclude.

I'm sure the staff is battling back. The doubts raised by rival recruiters aren't helpful. But catching rival recruiters in lies and exaggerations... is VERY helpful. That's the angle I would take.
 
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#289
#289
Fullfillmer said:
I dislike Fulmer a little more after each game we lose. I had to see him at the basketball game today, so I guess I dislike him a little more after each game we win as well. Isn't he the guy that brought in Jeremy Pruitt and gave himself a big raise in the middle of the night? Asking for a friend.

The world was different when Fulmer was coaching - he was a good recruiter but grew tired of it. I will give you that he does look good when measured up against Dooley, Butch, and Pruitt - but then again everyone looks good compared to those clowns.
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I don't think he grew "tired" of recruiting. I think he grew tired of evaluating. He was too busy looking at the forest to really check out the trees. He thought he would be OK throwing together a bunch of highly ranked players, and seeing what happened. But to build a championship team, you need the RIGHT highly ranked guys who turn that group of highly ranked players into a team that would give trouble to Urban Meyer and Steve Spurrier. When you become less hungry for championships, and more interested in your own legacy, you just become a legend in your own mind. And in the minds of those who just argue statistics all day long.
 
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#291
#291
Dudleys87 said:
I’m not sorry for the following and maybe I’m the only one with this opinion:

Fulmer lost all credibility and respect when he tried to railroad the program and the university.
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No, you are not. But it was not just Fulmer doing it. The biggest problem with Fulmer was some of his good friends in the boosters and within the administration. The fact that while Currie was our AD, a special position was created to Phil Fulmer, told me that Currie's time at Tennessee was going to be short. And when Currie was heading up to Ohio State to interview Schiano, don't tell me Fulmer had no idea. That is laughable. That whole coaching search was a joke, and the people advising Currie? Hell, that just showed what a rudderless ship the university had become. Fulmer's buddies wanted him back, and he was a special assistant for reasons of convenience. And we all know how that turned out.
 
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#292
#292
Volizona said:
Agree. Of all of the coaches mentioned in this thread, only Fulmer didn’t have a rebuild in year one.
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Fulmer stepped into a fully loaded powerhouse. One he had helped build as an assistant, but it's much different having to do it as a head coach. One of the reasons he didn't get the offers he thought he would when he was ousted at UT. He made it well known publicly and through his agent he was on the market
 
#293
#293
USAFgolferVol said:
Fulmer stepped into a fully loaded powerhouse. One he had helped build as an assistant, but it's much different having to do it as a head coach. One of the reasons he didn't get the offers he thought he would when he was ousted at UT. He made it well known publicly and through his agent he was on the market
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Why does Cutcliffe get so much credit as OC for Fulmer's success, while Fulmer gets ignored for his role in Majors' success? Fulmer was OC for 2 of the 3 SEC championships Majors has.
 
#294
#294
whobethis16 said:
Why does Cutcliffe get so much credit as OC for Fulmer's success, while Fulmer gets ignored for his role in Majors' success? Fulmer was OC for 2 of the 3 SEC championships Majors has.
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I'm not sure who has denied Fulmer credit for his work under Majors.

The difference between Fulmer's career with and without Cut is stark. When you have time, count not just the wins but the number of points scored, yards gained, etc.

Any leadership team you build has to have a good make up of complimentary talent, personalities, and leadership. Fulmer never found that without Cut.
 
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#295
#295
sjt18 said:
I'm not sure who has denied Fulmer credit for his work under Majors.

The difference between Fulmer's career with and without Cut is stark. When you have time, count not just the wins but the number of points scored, yards gained, etc.

Any leadership team you build has to have a good make up of complimentary talent, personalities, and leadership. Fulmer never found that without Cut.
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Style doesn't matter. Not sure why # of points matters when the Ws were still pretty damn good.
 
#296
#296
sjt18 said:
I'm not sure who has denied Fulmer credit for his work under Majors.

The difference between Fulmer's career with and without Cut is stark. When you have time, count not just the wins but the number of points scored, yards gained, etc.

Any leadership team you build has to have a good make up of complimentary talent, personalities, and leadership. Fulmer never found that without Cut.
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I've made this point so many times it's like going on auto-pilot. Fulmer with Cut won 81% of his games - without Cut the pct. dropped to 66.
 
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#297
#297
therealitytheory said:
I've made this point so many times it's like going on auto-pilot. Fulmer with Cut won 81% of his games - without Cut the pct. dropped to 66.
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Nobody argues that there wasn't a bit of a dropoff. The argument is that it wasn't as bad as so many people believe it was, and we are now almost 15 years removed from Fulmer and the program winning percentage is below 50% in that time.
 
#298
#298
whobethis16 said:
Nobody argues that there wasn't a bit of a dropoff. The argument is that it wasn't as bad as so many people believe it was, and we are now almost 15 years removed from Fulmer and the program winning percentage is below 50% in that time.
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Which only means UT did an extraordinarily bad job of managing the football program during that period hiring a succession of coaches that never should have gotten an interview. It wasn't just a "bit of a dropoff". It was the difference between "greatness" and average.

All that said, I'm not arguing that it was all Cutcliffe. His career away from Fulmer hasn't been stellar either. IMO it was the unique chemistry and complimentary relationship between Fulmer, Cut, and Chavis that made all 3 more successful together than any were apart.
 
#299
#299
whobethis16 said:
Style doesn't matter.
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I didn't mention style. I talked about production. Production matters. It is how you get W's.

Not sure why # of points matters when the Ws were still pretty damn good.
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Really? You don't understand what kind of advantage it is or what it means when you score more points over time? It is a measure of performance... of excellence.... of consistent execution.
 
#300
#300
whobethis16 said:
Why does Cutcliffe get so much credit as OC for Fulmer's success, while Fulmer gets ignored for his role in Majors' success? Fulmer was OC for 2 of the 3 SEC championships Majors has.
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Majors won a national championship and rebuilt multiple programs without Fulmer. Fulmer had one good season without Cutclife and still managed to blow that massively talented squad vs Saban.
 
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