Non-Lady Vol Basketball News 2023-24

[LadyOrange]

because people will never be ready for these type of discussions. People will always be set in their ways when it comes to race.

It's too bad, ya know. I thought I had to play for a biracial coach. How many of them are there, who identify as biracial? Luckily, I eventually realized I needed to play for the right coach, regardless of skin color, etc.

 

[creekdipper]

I get where she is coming from. However, she will end up splitting and alienating teams, coaches, and fans. I don't remember Pat ever using skin color as a criterion for selecting players and coaches. BTW, I'm biracial.

I get the representation angle and think it's imperative that all aspects of sports (coaching, playing, executive management, training, etc.) be open to all races, genders, ethnicities, etc. I love to see former players, regardless of background, succeed in the coaching ranks.

But she expressed the idea of players of certain skin color "needing" to be coached by peopke with similar skin color in stark color-biased terms. If she's not talking about physical appearance but instead aboutsome nebulous idea of a shared culture by all who share the same pigmentation, she needs to explain that. Otherwise, it comes across as racially-based at worst and self-serving at best (players with "Black bodies" need to play for coaches with "black bodies"...coincidentally, that just happens to include herself).

What's she trying to say? That other coaches can't relate to them? That they need to represent by helping her achieve success to advance others? Is there more context to the "Black bodies" term used that goes beyond physical characteristics?

 

[LadyOrange]

I get the representation angle and think it's imperative that all aspects of sports (coaching, playing, executive management, training, etc.) be open to all races, genders, ethnicities, etc. I love to see former players, regardless of background, succeed in the coaching ranks.

But she expressed the idea of players of certain skin color "needing" to be coached by peopke with similar skin color in stark color-biased terms. If she's not talking about physical appearance but instead aboutsome nebulous idea of a shared culture by all who share the same pigmentation, she needs to explain that. Otherwise, it comes across as racially-based at worst and self-serving at best (players with "Black bodies" need to play for coaches with "black bodies"...coincidentally, that just happens to include herself).

What's she trying to say? That other coaches can't relate to them? That they need to represent by helping her achieve success to advance others? Is there more context to the "Black bodies" term used that goes beyond physical characteristics?

Exactly. Believe me, there are plenty of Black women I know that in no way believe in that nebulous culture. They don't even like sports!

 

[LadyVol1908]

I get the representation angle and think it's imperative that all aspects of sports (coaching, playing, executive management, training, etc.) be open to all races, genders, ethnicities, etc. I love to see former players, regardless of background, succeed in the coaching ranks.

But she expressed the idea of players of certain skin color "needing" to be coached by peopke with similar skin color in stark color-biased terms. If she's not talking about physical appearance but instead aboutsome nebulous idea of a shared culture by all who share the same pigmentation, she needs to explain that. Otherwise, it comes across as racially-based at worst and self-serving at best (players with "Black bodies" need to play for coaches with "black bodies"...coincidentally, that just happens to include herself).

What's she trying to say? That other coaches can't relate to them? That they need to represent by helping her achieve success to advance others? Is there more context to the "Black bodies" term used that goes beyond physical characteristics?

I mean let’s call a spade a spade, she said what she said. What is there to explain? She believe African Americans, should be coached by African Americans. It’s racially charged and not appropriate but she said it. It’s a recruiting angle that’s working in this day and age. If you’re an elite level African American female basketball player, come play for someone who looks like you.

 

[shiverz]

I’m not going to judge the banner because it was a covid year… if she wants to celebrate her teams success this way I think she should. Did she post her team celebration videos after every win? Which is more self-aggrandizing? Depends on eye of the beholder. The ball… Excuses get made.

Don't know why the banner rub some people the wrong way. She did it for her players to commemorate a great season. Nothing on the banner claimed it as a "National Championship". The school also gave them rings.

 

[lvocd]

Dawn and Pat are two different people, raised in different parts of the country, in two different eras. Of course they're likely to have different styles and approaches. I don't know if you've been seeing, reading, watching any of the same things I have, but it's obvious to me that it's quite common among sports figures (including coaches) to be showy and braggy and social issue stand-taking.

For instance: Dawn wore a $4,500 designer letterman's jacket to the game. Is that something the culture I grew up in -- lower-middle-class, white, Tennessee mountain country-living, taught-to-be humble and to live simply -- values?

Well, no. But it doesn't bother me one bit that Dawn enjoys all the bling her millions can buy if that's what makes her happy. Just because she and I, culturally, are as different as night and day, it doesn't mean either of us is wrong in how we approach things.

I personally identify better with Pat's humble approach given we were raised similarly. But I think Staley is cool, too.

 

[creekdipper]

With the banner thing, I think most here just like to poke fun at opponents who are successful (at least, that's my motivation). The banner doesn't bother me in the least, and I applaud and admire the program for playing so well together. I admire certain other teams' players and systems, too, but that's not going to stop some good-natured ribbing of them.

 

[shiverz]

I guess you're referring to the Lady Vols' locker room vids? They posted those for the fans. They weren't taking themselves seriously. Dawn and her team take themselves VERY seriously.

The banner was raised for the fans and the players.

 

[LadyOrange]

The banner was posted for the fans and the players.

Being silly in the locker room is very different than hanging a banner.

 

[LadyOrange]

Dawn and Pat are two different people, raised in different parts of the country, in two different eras. Of course they're likely to have different styles and approaches. I don't know if you've been seeing, reading, watching any of the same things I have, but it's obvious to me that it's quite common among sports figures (including coaches) to be showy and braggy and social issue stand-taking.

For instance: Dawn wore a $4,500 designer letterman's jacket to the game. Is that something the culture I grew up in -- lower-middle-class, white, Tennessee mountain country-living, taught-to-be humble and to live simply -- values?

Well, no. But it doesn't bother me one bit that Dawn enjoys all the bling her millions can buy if that's what makes her happy. Just because she and I, culturally, are as different as night and day, it doesn't mean either of us is wrong in how we approach things.

I personally identify better with Pat's humble approach given we were raised similarly. But I think Staley is cool, too.

The bling bothers me. Almost all players, even those who get WNBA contracts, will never see that kind of money. I was fine with Dawn until recently. Just because a person’s skin is black doesn’t mean she needs to play for a black coach. How does a lesbian black player choose a coach? A black coach. A lesbian coach? A black lesbian coach? A black out lesbian coach?

 

[bballnut90]

Dawn and Pat are two different people, raised in different parts of the country, in two different eras. Of course they're likely to have different styles and approaches. I don't know if you've been seeing, reading, watching any of the same things I have, but it's obvious to me that it's quite common among sports figures (including coaches) to be showy and braggy and social issue stand-taking.

For instance: Dawn wore a $4,500 designer letterman's jacket to the game. Is that something the culture I grew up in -- lower-middle-class, white, Tennessee mountain country-living, taught-to-be humble and to live simply -- values?

Well, no. But it doesn't bother me one bit that Dawn enjoys all the bling her millions can buy if that's what makes her happy. Just because she and I, culturally, are as different as night and day, it doesn't mean either of us is wrong in how we approach things.

I personally identify better with Pat's humble approach given we were raised similarly. But I think Staley is cool, too.

Well put.

 

[LadyOrange]

Don't know why the banner rub some people the wrong way. She did it for her players to commemorate a great season. Nothing on the banner claimed it as a "National Championship". The school also gave them rings.

Don't know why the banner rub some people the wrong way. She did it for her players to commemorate a great season. Nothing on the banner claimed it as a "National Championship". The school also gave them rings.

It’s like the kids for the past how many years get a ribbon for farting. Everybody gets a trophy whether or not they do anything to earn it. Giving awards for everything diminishes the value of the awards for the best.

 

[Lucy]

I think we’re starting to get on a slipperyyyyy slope here people!

Agree! This is not where I was going with my original post which said I thought Boston seemed like a really good kid and Dawn had done a lot of good things for WBB but in my opinion could sometimes be a bit self promoting.
The good things I had in mind often had to do with her calling attention to and paving the way for young African American women to get into coaching. My small irritation comes when she seems to make it more about herself. Like Kim Mulkey tends to make it about herself.
I really do not believe Dawn would tell a black recruit to not play for a coach because they are white. That is totally the antithesis of what she seems to be dedicated to which is equal opportunity.
That banner is still ridiculous.

 

[shiverz]

nm

 

[CoryDallasLV]

Agree! This is not where I was going with my original post which said I thought Boston seemed like a really good kid and Dawn had done a lot of good things for WBB but in my opinion could sometimes be a bit self promoting.
The good things I had in mind often had to do with her calling attention to and paving the way for young African American women to get into coaching. My small irritation comes when she seems to make it more about herself. Like Kim Mulkey tends to make it about herself.
I really do not believe Dawn would tell a black recruit to not play for a coach because they are white. That is totally the antithesis of what she seems to be dedicated to which is equal opportunity.
That banner is still ridiculous.

I never thought you were going there but other posters are. Dawn Staley never said all Black players should only play for Black coaches.

 

[shiverz]

It’s like the kids for the past how many years get a ribbon for farting. Everybody gets a trophy whether or not they do anything to earn it. Giving awards for everything diminishes the value of the awards for the best.

Did you complain when Duke hung banners when they finished #1 during years when there was an official national champion?

 

[shiverz]

It’s like the kids for the past how many years get a ribbon for farting. Everybody gets a trophy whether or not they do anything to earn it. Giving awards for everything diminishes the value of the awards for the best.

Last time. It is a commemorative banner. It does not claim a National title. There was not a trophy given out.

 

[shiverz]

Agree! This is not where I was going with my original post which said I thought Boston seemed like a really good kid and Dawn had done a lot of good things for WBB but in my opinion could sometimes be a bit self promoting.
The good things I had in mind often had to do with her calling attention to and paving the way for young African American women to get into coaching. My small irritation comes when she seems to make it more about herself. Like Kim Mulkey tends to make it about herself.
I really do not believe Dawn would tell a black recruit to not play for a coach because they are white. That is totally the antithesis of what she seems to be dedicated to which is equal opportunity.
That banner is still ridiculous.

Walking around with a wet floor sign is ridiculous if the floor is not wet. But "to each their own".

 

[shiverz]

I never thought you were going there but other posters are. Dawn Staley never said all Black players should only play for Black coaches.

It is like they take pieces of stuff to push some type of hidden agenda.

 

[ATLVolFan06]

Sure it is. Do we see head coaches coming out as lesbian, gay, or transgendered? If I'm gay, does my coach have to be gay? No. If I'm black, does my coach need to be black? No. The skin color, sexual orientation, gender ,etc. of a coach does not mean the coach connects with a player or knows what's best for a player.

Respectfully, I think you may be missing the point here. There’s a certain lived experience when you’re black or lgbtq or a member of a minority group that resonates with players that are members of that same group. Sure, it doesn’t mean there won’t be problems but if problems do arise it won’t be because of their minority status. It’s truly about signaling that the environment is safe for the player to be themselves.

 

[Lucy]

Walking around with a wet floor sign is ridiculous if the floor is not wet. But "to each their own".

I’ll let you know when we hang that sign in the rafters at TBA

 

[lvocd]

The bling bothers me. Almost all players, even those who get WNBA contracts, will never see that kind of money. I was fine with Dawn until recently. Just because a person’s skin is black doesn’t mean she needs to play for a black coach. How does a lesbian black player choose a coach? A black coach. A lesbian coach? A black lesbian coach? A black out lesbian coach?

Given where we are societally with so much open hostility and discrimination and increasing denial by many White people that racism even exists in this country, having Black representation and role models is absolutely important. Not everyone seeks that out, but I am 100% certain that having the option to play for someone whom you know 100% understands you and what it's like to navigate life as someone with darker skin in this era, is extremely important.

Like I've said before, I feel like Staley understands that she can be that person for kids who may want/ need that extra bit of confirmation and support that one can often only get from people who look like you and sound like you and have had many of the same struggles.

It's a great time for a highly successful, Black, socially-active coach to be recruiting young, Black kids looking for a role model. And I'm okay with that!

Fortunately, our country born-and-raised, blond-haired, blue-eyed coach is about as sweet as honey, and just as genuine. Passionate about basketball, family, friends and the growth of her players -- on and off the court. Both Black and White kids can sense that, so Kellie's gonna get her share of players from all cultures.

It's all good!

 

[Lucy]

Did you complain when Duke hung banners when they finished #1 during years when there was an official national champion?

Yes, I think Duke Basketball and Coach K are pompous a$$s. Any program that allows Greyson Allen to remain on the team is reprehensible. You do not want SC to be the Duke of WBB.

 

[sisaq]

Well, Dawn expresses herself in a way that can credibly be described as racially-prejudiced.

About 15 minutes ago, I read an article about the importance of Staley as a "Black" coach (comparing her impact to that of John Thompson). The article talked about how "Black" athletes wanted to play for her (a "Black" coach) and how this was a good thing.

Staley said, "Our sport is filled with so many Black bodies; they need to be coached by other Black bodies."

I wonder if she applies that same logic to "White" players needing to be coached by "other White bodies."

I've said it be4 and will say it again. I don't really like how Dawn talks about "Blacks" to me it sounds like she recruiting just Blacks and some people are stating to get tired of it. My family barely watch her and they like can this coach give a speech without mentioning Blacks..

 

[creekdipper]

I never thought you were going there but other posters are. Dawn Staley never said all Black players should only play for Black coaches.

Just speaking for myself, I tried to make it clear that my problem is how she expresses herself. Unless she was misquoted, she said that "Black bodies" "need to be coached by other Black bodies." It can be argued that need is a stronger term than should. She didn't say "all," but she didn't say "some," either.

Unless there was a lot more she said to add more context/nuance, I think she certainly opened the door wide for her remarks to be viewed negatively. Everyone can understand that players likely play better under coaches to whom they can relate, but to tie that to skin color seems highly questionable. Are we to make of her remarks that people of the same skin color all share the same interests, life experiences, religious beliefs, family backgrounds, education goals, career goals, etc.? Or is she implying that this phenomenon only applies to one skin color?