Tom Fornelli: Vol's SEC Most Overrated Team, Will Finish 3rd in the East

#27
#27
lawgator1 said:
That's true. But I have sensed a pattern here on VN of late where, when a commentator picks you to be in the SEC cship game, he's an excellent judge of talent and knows what he's talking about; whereas, if he is a skeptic of the Vols, he's a hack.

Just sayin.'
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It's all fine and dandy to have the opinion that TN won't win the East. We certainly need to prove it this year. But it makes you look foolish when you are a supposed professional sports writer who gets paid a real salary to write articles like this and make the claim that this is the same TN team since 2004 that has played Florida and Georgia.

The fact that he doesn't concede that the talent level is nothing like that of our doldrum years of 2008-2013 or that we have had coaching turnover issues for close to a decade now is ignorant.

TN very well might not win the East this year, but to make such pedestrian and amateur statements such as those makes you lose all credibility in my eyes. It's just lazy journalism and shows to me you have either extreme bias against that team, or you just don't want to do your due diligence and look further into roster upgrades or experience.
 
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#30
#30
When I read the opening post, all I could think...


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#31
#31
lawgator1 said:
That's true. But I have sensed a pattern here on VN of late where, when a commentator picks you to be in the SEC cship game, he's an excellent judge of talent and knows what he's talking about; whereas, if he is a skeptic of the Vols, he's a hack.

Just sayin.'
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Good point.

We are going to beat Florida. I AGREE
 
#32
#32
lawgator1 said:
That's true. But I have sensed a pattern here on VN of late where, when a commentator picks you to be in the SEC cship game, he's an excellent judge of talent and knows what he's talking about; whereas, if he is a skeptic of the Vols, he's a hack.

Just sayin.'
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Well there are quality reasons to believe we'll have our best year in quite some time and only the haters refuse to see that.

Talent to compete

Alabama 941.34
LSU 846.19
Auburn 808.01
Tennessee 781.29
Georgia 780.48
Texas A&M 765.07
Florida 730.11
Ole Miss 695.12
South Carolina 657.25
Miss State 641.65
Kentucky 630.47
Arkansas 612.95
Vanderbilt 590.67
Missouri 588.43

2016 College SEC Football Team Talent Composite

Experience - Returning Starters

LSU 17
Tennessee 17
Vanderbilt 16
Arkansas 14
Georgia 13
Kentucky 13
Mississippi State 13
Missouri 13
South Carolina 13
Texas A&M 13
Florida 12
Alabama 11
Auburn 11
Ole Miss 9

SEC teams with the most returning starters in 2016

I think most fans would admit that anything can happen but to dismiss how far this program has come since the "Foundation Class" of 2014 simply because we were down before is not being a skeptic; it's being mindless. It's true and everyone knows that those freshmen didn't win the SEC either in their freshman year or the sophomore year and the excuse they gave was you really need more than one class. So we got another class in 2015 and now we mostly have juniors and sophomores. They've improved every year as they've grown, matured, and gained experience. It is only reasonable to expect that trend to continue at Tennessee just like it does everywhere else - unless you are just a hater. It's.just.that.simple. :hi:
 
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#33
#33
To be fair, in context he's saying he gets it that there is potential there, but he wants to see it before handing you the SECe trophy.

Tennessee: The Vols might be really good this season. They might win the SEC East. These things definitely fall within the realm of possibility. It's just, this is the same Tennessee team that hasn't beaten Florida since 2004 and hasn't won against Georgia in Athens since 2006. It's also 3-13 against ranked teams under Butch Jones, so while I see the potential, I'm still approaching with caution. -- Tom Fornelli (In agreement: Jon Solomon, Jerry Palm)
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That seems reasonable to me.
 
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#34
#34
If the players see this and start to work harder we are in trouble.

I'm sure our guys are preparing to demolish this year's schedule and end up in Tampa come January 9th.

And as for the "I've got to see it to believe it" crowd. I've got to see ole butter teeth come into to Knoxville and get the win before I will believe it.
 
#36
#36
FLVOL_79 said:
Well to be fair most of them are..
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Actually, none of them are. Neither players nor coaches. Not a single one.

Just a handful of them have been around to lose 5 in a row.

The average member of Team 120 has lost 2.

Almost a third of them have lost 0 to the Gators.

Hoping those who have lost 0 will be able to continue saying that their entire lives. :)

And 120 certainly isn't the same team as any of its predecessors.

Go Vols!
 
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#37
#37
lawgator1 said:
To be fair, in context he's saying he gets it that there is potential there, but he wants to see it before handing you the SECe trophy.




That seems reasonable to me.
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I couldn't see it being reasonable to most fair-minded people. It largely discounts everything that has been done since the rebuilding of our program started and tries to tie this team to a past that they were not even remotely connected with. It's basically saying no matter how much talent you get, no matter how much development, maturity, and experience you get, we're going to assess your potential on what you did when you didn't have much talent or quality experience. None of that rebuilding counts in Tennessee's case because back in 2004 and 2006, etc. #Idiots.
 
#38
#38
lawgator1 said:
That's true. But I have sensed a pattern here on VN of late where, when a commentator picks you to be in the SEC cship game, he's an excellent judge of talent and knows what he's talking about; whereas, if he is a skeptic of the Vols, he's a hack.

Just sayin.'
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As a UF fan let me get your opinion on the legitimacy of sports writers predictions like this. When they discount Del Rio by saying "...who couldn't win the starting job at Oregon State" do you think they are talking about him not being able to beat out future 2nd Rd pick and all time Pac 12 passing leader Sean Mannion in 2014? Or maybe not being able to convert from a prostyle QB to a duel threat QB to match the new coach's system in 2015? Or just maybe, and this is a stretch here, these guys haven't done much research at all and are just going off things they've heard from ESPN and message boards?
 
#39
#39
lawgator1 said:
To be fair, in context he's saying he gets it that there is potential there, but he wants to see it before handing you the SECe trophy.




That seems reasonable to me.
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Yea...but then he has to go and say "don't sleep on Vandy". All reasonability seems to just disappear then.
 
#40
#40
lawgator1 said:
That's true. But I have sensed a pattern here on VN of late where, when a commentator picks you to be in the SEC cship game, he's an excellent judge of talent and knows what he's talking about; whereas, if he is a skeptic of the Vols, he's a hack.

Just sayin.'
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Yeah, that never happens on the messageboards of other teams. *rolling eyes*
 
#41
#41
VFL-82-JP said:
Actually, none of them are. Neither players nor coaches. Not a single one.

Just a handful of them have been around to lose 5 in a row.

The average member of Team 120 has lost 2.

Almost a third of them have lost 0 to the Gators.

Hoping those who have lost 0 will be able to continue saying that their entire lives. :)

And 120 certainly isn't the same team as any of its predecessors.

Go Vols!
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There you go throwin' in facts again. :)
 
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#42
#42
wtmvol said:
I laugh at the term "expert". These writers putting out these predictions are absolutely no more equipped to predict anything than the average VN poster. I'd say the same thing if this "expert" had us winning the SEC East.
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you should be ashamed even mentioning this "expert" in the same sentence with any "experts" on VN...:)

GO VOLS!
 
#43
#43
ChattaTNVol said:
I couldn't see it being reasonable to most fair-minded people. It largely discounts everything that has been done since the rebuilding of our program started and tries to tie this team to a past that they were not even remotely connected with. It's basically saying no matter how much talent you get, no matter how much development, maturity, and experience you get, we're going to assess your potential on what you did when you didn't have much talent or quality experience. None of that rebuilding counts in Tennessee's case because back in 2004 and 2006, etc. #Idiots.
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I understand but the perception has been that UT had the better team on a number of occasions last year, at least on paper, but did not get it done against the better teams. That the "on paper" team was not measuring up to the reality.

And so I think what people want to see is the reality catching up to the hype. Its hard to argue with that, especially when (and this is not a Tennessee issue) we year after year see teams that SHOULD do well end up being pretty mediocre. And a lot of the time there just is no consensus explanation.

So look at UT last year. What was it? Timid coaching? Conditioning late in games? A talent problem?

You've got more talent than you've had in the past. Check. More experience. Check. But is that what the issue is or has been?

I don't know. Its probably more than one thing. And it might be one thing in the first quarter, and something different in the second. What is clear is that something (or somethings) have been holding you back.

While I certainly agree that you ought to be in Atlanta this fall, and should beat everyone in the East, I admit I have some doubt. And yes, its because of the outcomes of the last couple of years, not just the issue of what is the potential this year.


08Vol said:
As a UF fan let me get your opinion on the legitimacy of sports writers predictions like this. When they discount Del Rio by saying "...who couldn't win the starting job at Oregon State" do you think they are talking about him not being able to beat out future 2nd Rd pick and all time Pac 12 passing leader Sean Mannion in 2014? Or maybe not being able to convert from a prostyle QB to a duel threat QB to match the new coach's system in 2015? Or just maybe, and this is a stretch here, these guys haven't done much research at all and are just going off things they've heard from ESPN and message boards?
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I readily concede your point. I agree with you.

But it seems like you want them to say that you ARE going to be better, and that you WILL win the east, when despite predictions of dramatic improvement in the last 2 years we have yet to see it.

To be clear, I DO expect to see it. I really think you are the team to beat in the east and should end up in the cship game. Again, though, I've seen this movie before and so I just want to see it happen before I commit.
 
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#44
#44
RollerVol said:
you should be ashamed even mentioning this "expert" in the same sentence with any "experts" on VN...:)

GO VOLS!
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Ha! Well, in my defense, I didn't put this guy against our VN experts. Just our average posters. We've got some real knuckleheads on here that really drags our average down.
 
#45
#45
LawGator, a problem with your argument is that you start off with revisionist history, then build from that.

Last year, thanks to being informed by smart folks like Phil Steele, DAJ, and others, those of us who were paying attention did NOT believe "that UT had the better team [by this I assume you mean more talent] on a number of occasions last year, at least on paper, but did not get it done...." (your words). Fact is, we knew that (1) Bama still had significantly more talent than us, (2) Florida and Georgia still had a slight edge in talent, and (3) Oklahoma was more or less a peer-equal. This is all well-documented in threads from almost exactly a year ago.

Fact is, the only time we had "more talent" but "didn't get it done" was against Arkansas.

Now, granted, we totally blew that game. And yes, our losses against Oklahoma and Florida were heartbreaking in the way they played out.

But your initial premise is flawed, and the entire rest of your argument sits on top of that premise.

So your argument fails.

I don't fault you for adopting a "prove it" attitude. Heck, many Vols fans have that same outlook.

But your argument is off base from the start.

Go Vols!



p.s. It was a combination of factors. A very few bad coaching decisions (our opponents and their fans want to believe that is a sign of some deep-seated and permanent flaw in Butch...not buying that) ... a lack of depth so that we got relatively tired out in the 4th Qtr ... and yes, against Bama a talent deficit. So you did get that part right, imo. :good!:
 
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#46
#46
lawgator1 said:
I readily concede your point. I agree with you.

But it seems like you want them to say that you ARE going to be better, and that you WILL win the east, when despite predictions of dramatic improvement in the last 2 years we have yet to see it.

To be clear, I DO expect to see it. I really think you are the team to beat in the east and should end up in the cship game. Again, though, I've seen this movie before and so I just want to see it happen before I commit.
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But we have improved in the last 2 years, in pretty measurable ways. Whether that improvement has been "dramatic" is in the eye of the beholder I guess. But we've gone from a dumpster fire in 2013 to a team that finished the year ranked in the top 25 in 2015. Now, it's time to continue the trajectory. One month from today will be everyone's answer whether that happens or not. Lose that, and things could get extremely nasty.
 
#47
#47
lawgator1 said:
To be clear, I DO expect to see it. I really think you are the team to beat in the east and should end up in the cship game. Again, though, I've seen this movie before and so I just want to see it happen before I commit.
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I don't understand that part. Why do you think anyone here is waiting for you, a gator, to commit on Team #120? You just better be glad Georgia Southern isn't on your schedule this year. :)

BTW, I thought last year we could have done better but that was relying on too many of the 2015 freshmen. I mean, come on, rarely does an SEC champion field that many freshmen in back to back years and when teams do field talented young teams like that - it almost always eventually pays dividends - just not immediately to the instant gratification crowd (btw, I was in that crowd before it was cool).

As Tennessee fans we're going to look at our team differently than gator fans would but not differently than gator fans would see their own team in similar circumstances. :hi:
 
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#49
#49
VersaceButch said:
Fornelli also states that this is just "the same TN team from years past that hasn't beaten Florida since 2004." How can you even make that statement as a supposed professional sports writer? So this is the exact same team as the 2004-2015 teams? Same players? Same coach?

He really thinks our talent level/experience is the same as the 2011/2012 TN teams that played Florida? I mean this is some quality ignorance right there for a major sports network writer.
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Oh plez plez plez prognoticators of football amongst the SEC of the NCAA

Oh not great ones...

Continue with your ignorance, your ineptitude..

Do it daily ...

As the great Obi Wan Nobodi might write in sports pages throughout the South...

The Volunteers, Tennessee of..great not so very are they

And Noooooobody gonna see the light at the end of the tunnel as The Big Orange Train commin at em what gonna make em flatter than a new penny on a railroad track.
 
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