Vols rejecting Gary Patterson another lesson on incompetence

The climate in 2008 wasn't going to allow us to hire a gimmick coach. We (or I should say the traditionalist fanbase) wanted to run pro style offense and the allure of getting Kiffin, Monte Kiffin and Ed O were too hard to pass up.

The Kiffin hire wasn't a bad hire... the contract buyout was the problem.

How was it not a bad hire?

You drop what had been proven, with the program as a whole still in good shape, you have the opportunity to get something else proven, but instead you take Lane........someone who hadn’t proven anything.........yes it was a terrible hire. Given what Tennessee was and what Tennessee had.
 
How was it not a bad hire?

You drop what had been proven, with the program as a whole still in good shape, you have the opportunity to get something else proven, but instead you take Lane........someone who hadn’t proven anything.........yes it was a terrible hire. Given what Tennessee was and what Tennessee had.

One more time...

The climate in 2008 wasn't going to allow us to hire a gimmick coach. We (or I should say the traditionalist fanbase) wanted to run pro style offense...

Most Tennessee fans at that time were not going to go for Patterson at that time.
 
How was it not a bad hire?

You drop what had been proven, with the program as a whole still in good shape, you have the opportunity to get something else proven, but instead you take Lane........someone who hadn’t proven anything.........yes it was a terrible hire. Given what Tennessee was and what Tennessee had.

There were a lot of proven coaches on the staff. Kiffin hadn’t proven himself as a head coach, but he had the support crew around him to make you think he could figure it out.

Monte was a legend. Chaney is obviously well-regarded. James Cregg was a really good OL coach with Mitch Browning and Chaney backing him up. Orgeron is one of the best DL coaches around.

There was reason to think it would work and most were fairly optimistic after 2009.
 
No Behr, lol.

Are you saying you were happy with Botch? No, you’re not.

WSU won PACx championships in 1917, 1930, 1997, and 2002. You can’t say Leach isn’t a damn good coach. We’d be in much better shape
had we hired him rather than Kiffie, Drools, or Botch...take your pick.

I didn't say Leach wasn't a good coach. I just asked what your point was about the bowls against Big 10 opponents.

Anyway, again with hindsight and hypotheticals. Who knows if Kiffin had stayed. Who knows if we'd hired Charlie Strong? Who knows if we'd never fired Phil? Who knows if we'd kept Trooper as interim for a year? What if we'd hired Saban instead of Alabama? What if Jon Gruden had been hired? What if Aliens from outer space are real?
 
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I didn't say Leach wasn't a good coach. I just asked what your point was about the bowls against Big 10 opponents.

Anyway, again with hindsight and hypotheticals. Who knows if Kiffin had stayed. Who knows if we'd hired Charlie Strong? Who knows if we'd never fired Phil? Who knows if we'd kept Trooper as interim for a year? What if we'd hired Saban instead of Alabama? What if Jon Gruden had been hired? What if Aliens from outer space are real?
If I could go back and have a re-do of a single head coaching hire/fire decision, it would be the panic hire of Dooley after Kiffin left. Easy. It wouldn't be firing Phil, and it wouldn't even be the hiring of Kiffin.

IMO, the development that has the most to do with the depths we've reached is hiring Dooley in a panic after Kiffin left. The proper move there, and this isn't hindsight bias because there were people saying it at the time, was to appoint Kippy interim and then have a whole calendar year to conduct a proper, normalized coaching search. Either that, or if you believe the story that Cutcliffe was extremely interested, but turned off because Hamilton wasn't going to let him bring all his Duke assistants over. Either way, there were better courses of action there.

Instead Hammy panicked and hired Dooley, at a time on the calendar when everybody we would have talked to on the carousel had already found a job. Even if Hamilton didn't hire Dooley, the only other coaches available were guys at his level. It was such a weird, inconvenient time to be hiring a head coach.
 
One more time...



Most Tennessee fans at that time were not going to go for Patterson at that time.

Uhhhhh........that is not an answer to “it was a good hire.”

You say good hire. I say bad hire. Don’t get me wrong hind sight is 20/20; however, then Tennessee was in a good place. Tennessee could have hired several good and several proven coaches. Instead Tennessee hired someone who had proven nothing. Merely a name, and a very old DC who could come with him.

Hey I’m no coaching hire mastermind, and I’m not trying to be rude. I just don’t see the Lane hire as anything but bad.
 
Uhhhhh........that is not an answer to “it was a good hire.”

You say good hire. I say bad hire. Don’t get me wrong hind sight is 20/20; however, then Tennessee was in a good place. Tennessee could have hired several good and several proven coaches. Instead Tennessee hired someone who had proven nothing. Merely a name, and a very old DC who could come with him.

Hey I’m no coaching hire mastermind, and I’m not trying to be rude. I just don’t see the Lane hire as anything but bad.

Hiring Lane wasn't the problem. The best coach available and on the market at that same time period was another unproven coach that Clemson ended up hiring...

Plus, Kiffin was able to take a beaten and broken Johnathan Crompton and turned him into a decent quarterback in half a season. Again, the main issue was that Hamilton gave Kiffin the most ridiculous contract in the modern history of UT sports.
 
There were a lot of proven coaches on the staff. Kiffin hadn’t proven himself as a head coach, but he had the support crew around him to make you think he could figure it out.

Monte was a legend. Chaney is obviously well-regarded. James Cregg was a really good OL coach with Mitch Browning and Chaney backing him up. Orgeron is one of the best DL coaches around.

There was reason to think it would work and most were fairly optimistic after 2009.

Banking anything on a 90 year old DC, and a young coach who hadn’t done anything.........to replace what Tennessee had, and to forgo what Tennessee could have gotten.........to me was not wise (no matter the support staff). In fact I feel it was extremely dumb.

Tennessee thought they could capitalize on a young hot name. He would bring in coaches with recent nfl exp and some with USC ties.

The prob was you don’t sell the farm for magic beans. You sell the farm for the fully grown bean stalk.
 
Hiring Lane wasn't the problem. The best coach available and on the market at that same time period was another unproven coach that Clemson ended up hiring...

Plus, Kiffin was able to take a beaten and broken Johnathan Crompton and turned him into a decent quarterback in half a season. Again, the main issue was that Hamilton gave Kiffin the most ridiculous contract in the modern history of UT sports.

I don’t disagree. Lane could have been a decent hire......heck could have been a good one. But it wasn’t (for me at least). Because of a few proven coaches they could have landed.
 
Banking anything on a 90 year old DC, and a young coach who hadn’t done anything.........to replace what Tennessee had, and to forgo what Tennessee could have gotten.........to me was not wise (no matter the support staff). In fact I feel it was extremely dumb.

Tennessee thought they could capitalize on a young hot name. He would bring in coaches with recent nfl exp and some with USC ties.

The prob was you don’t sell the farm for magic beans. You sell the farm for the fully grown bean stalk.

Tennessee had a coach that was mediocre to bad against the guys he was coaching against at that particular moment and very good against the coaches from the 90's that were no longer around.

Kiffin was a very good coach as far as his offensive mind goes, and was pretty well-respected as a coordinator. It's a little crazy to say he hadn't done anything. After all, Phil was just an OC when he got promoted in the early 90's.
 
Hiring Lane wasn't the problem. The best coach available and on the market at that same time period was another unproven coach that Clemson ended up hiring...

Plus, Kiffin was able to take a beaten and broken Johnathan Crompton and turned him into a decent quarterback in half a season. Again, the main issue was that Hamilton gave Kiffin the most ridiculous contract in the modern history of UT sports.
I'd love to go back in a time machine and see who we would have ended up hiring if Hamilton just appointed Kippy interim for the 2010 season and had a full year to conduct a proper coaching search. Of course, he was so incompetent, perhaps it wouldn't have mattered how much time he had.

When he decided that he had to hire a coach before the end of that year's recruiting period in a shortsighted effort to preserve Kiffin's recruiting class, he was doomed to hiring a coach at Dooley's level. The Derek Dooleys of the world were the only guys available at that time. Everybody here should go watch Clay Travis's interview with DD from a couple years ago. Even Dooley himself was stunned he got a call from Tennessee.
 
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Banking anything on a 90 year old DC, and a young coach who hadn’t done anything.........to replace what Tennessee had, and to forgo what Tennessee could have gotten.........to me was not wise (no matter the support staff). In fact I feel it was extremely dumb.

Tennessee thought they could capitalize on a young hot name. He would bring in coaches with recent nfl exp and some with USC ties.

The prob was you don’t sell the farm for magic beans. You sell the farm for the fully grown bean stalk.

Nah, you don't ever sell the farm! You don't even put a mortgage on it!
 
Uhhhhh........that is not an answer to “it was a good hire.”

You say good hire. I say bad hire. Don’t get me wrong hind sight is 20/20; however, then Tennessee was in a good place. Tennessee could have hired several good and several proven coaches. Instead Tennessee hired someone who had proven nothing. Merely a name, and a very old DC who could come with him.

Hey I’m no coaching hire mastermind, and I’m not trying to be rude. I just don’t see the Lane hire as anything but bad.
Agree. Hamilton got pitched on the NFL staff he would bring. He did, but also brought a horrible culture. Carousing coaches. Penitentiary league players. We’re lucky he was only here one year.
 
Agree. Hamilton got pitched on the NFL staff he would bring. He did, but also brought a horrible culture. Carousing coaches. Penitentiary league players. We’re lucky he was only here one year.

We had players have to be dragged off the practice field because they were excited about where things were going. We've always had a few players getting in trouble as far back as I can recall. The culture was far, far worse under Dooley and Butch.
 
I'm plenty happy with Pruitt but Leach would have been a home run hire Imo. The man is a offensive guru and his personality is infectious. He would have been the second coming of the Spurrier imo.

To this day ever since Fulmer was fired, I have always felt the biggest home run hire would have been Petersen. Even if it had took putting down Orange turf.
 
Like who?
Depending on if you believe the reporting/rumor mill at the time, Cutcliffe could have been had after Kiffin left, provided he could bring his entire Duke staff over. Hamilton reportedly quashed that idea, wanted him to keep Kippy Brown (potentially among others) from the previous staff. Cutcliffe then said no thanks.

There's revisionist history about how the fanbase reacted to the Kiffin hire at the time. The mood the day he was hired certainly wasn't "Well, there are other proven coaches we could have had." Unless you were a Phil loyalist no matter what, most people were juiced about the hire, particularly at the fact that Monte was going to be the DC. That dude came straight from the NFL to Tennessee, was paid over $1m (almost unheard of for an assistant at the time), and wasn't all that far removed from a Super Bowl. These people in here now talking about "old Monte Kiffin" or poo-poohing how big a deal that was are doing some historical revisionism. Monte was the highest paid assistant in CFB at the time and the staff as a whole was paid the 4th most in the SEC, behind only Saban, Richt, and Urban. That's also a shot to the "we suck because we're cheap" narrative. Kiffin + staff was not a cheap hire, and ever since then we really haven't been in a position to pique a big-name coach's interest who would command a very large salary.
 
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Depending on if you believe the reporting/rumor mill at the time, Cutcliffe could have been had after Kiffin left, provided he could bring his entire Duke staff over. Hamilton reportedly quashed that idea, wanted him to keep Kippy Brown (potentially among others) from the previous staff. Cutcliffe then said no thanks.

There's revisionist history about how the fanbase reacted to the Kiffin hire at the time. The mood the day he was hired certainly wasn't "Well, there are other proven coaches we could have had." Unless you were a Phil loyalist no matter what, most people were juiced about the hire, particularly at the fact that Monte was going to be the DC. That dude came straight from the NFL to Tennessee, was paid over $1m (almost unheard of for an assistant at the time), and wasn't all that far removed from a Super Bowl. These people in here now talking about "old Monte Kiffin" or poo-poohing how big a deal that was are doing some historical revisionism. Monte was the highest paid assistant in CFB at the time and the staff as a whole was paid the 4th most in the SEC, behind only Saban, Richt, and Urban. That's also a shot to the "we suck because we're cheap" narrative. Kiffin + staff was not a cheap hire, and ever since then we really haven't been in a position to pique a big-name coach's interest who would command a very large salary.

Cutcliffe wouldn't really qualify as a big name hire now, let alone in 2010. He'd have done better than the idiots we hired instead, but he hadn't even managed to have a .500 season at Duke by that point.
 
Cutcliffe wouldn't really qualify as a big name hire now, let alone in 2010. He'd have done better than the idiots we hired instead, but he hadn't even managed to have a .500 season at Duke by that point.
He certainly was a bigger name than Dooley though.
 
Depending on if you believe the reporting/rumor mill at the time, Cutcliffe could have been had after Kiffin left, provided he could bring his entire Duke staff over. Hamilton reportedly quashed that idea, wanted him to keep Kippy Brown (potentially among others) from the previous staff. Cutcliffe then said no thanks.

There's revisionist history about how the fanbase reacted to the Kiffin hire at the time. The mood the day he was hired certainly wasn't "Well, there are other proven coaches we could have had." Unless you were a Phil loyalist no matter what, most people were juiced about the hire, particularly at the fact that Monte was going to be the DC. That dude came straight from the NFL to Tennessee, was paid over $1m (almost unheard of for an assistant at the time), and wasn't all that far removed from a Super Bowl. These people in here now talking about "old Monte Kiffin" or poo-poohing how big a deal that was are doing some historical revisionism. Monte was the highest paid assistant in CFB at the time and the staff as a whole was paid the 4th most in the SEC, behind only Saban, Richt, and Urban. That's also a shot to the "we suck because we're cheap" narrative. Kiffin + staff was not a cheap hire, and ever since then we really haven't been in a position to pique a big-name coach's interest who would command a very large salary.
Wait, Cutcliffe was only at Duke for just one season when Fulmer was fired in 2008. Scratch that... half a season.

The scenario you are talking about may have been possible (may) when Kiffin left after 2009 season.

Your timeline is off.
 
I wanted Kiffin or Patterson. So I was happy when we got Lane Kiffin with his father and Sheldon Cooper's dad as part of the package. In hindsight, we made the wrong choice. If we'd got Gary Patterson, he'd still be our Coach and we'd likely be in contention for the SEC today.

But we should have been concerned at the time with Hamilton and Haslam running the show. We didn't have to unload a dump truck full of cash to get him, but we also should not have made his buyout so low to where it was really easy for him to get out of his contract. I am sure that Hammy would say that we didn't foresee Pete Carroll leaving and Kiffin succeeding him, even though Kiffy told him that USC would be the job he'd leave for.

Let's be thankful that Mike Hamilton is long gone, even though we are still paying for his screw ups to this day.
 
Wait, Cutcliffe was only at Duke for just one season when Fulmer was fired in 2008. Scratch that... half a season.

The scenario you are talking about may have been possible (may) when Kiffin left after 2009 season.

Your timeline is off.
That's exactly what I said in the first sentence. Cutcliffe could have been had after Kiffin left.

There weren't "other proven coaches" we could have had after Fulmer was fired, though.
 
That's exactly what I said in the first sentence. Cutcliffe could have been had after Kiffin left.

There weren't "other proven coaches" we could have had after Fulmer was fired, though.
Possibly, but the main subject of the thread was regarding the year before when Kiffin was hired. That's what kind of threw me off a bit.
 

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