We are an entitled, petty, barbaric country: Handicapped parking shooting

#876
#876
n_huffhines said:
I've seen you in that thread. You're harder on cops than I am. I find this hard to believe.
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Frankly, I don’t care what you believe. I have no trouble with a person, cop or not, responding to uninitiated violence with greater violence. I argue more about the institutional aspect of the policing profession itself and the belief of authority.
 
#879
#879
Reaching for a weapon is an exaggerated motion, just like we see from the POS on the ground.
You can’t reac h for a weapon with your hands at your side.
You have to raise your elbow and shoulder
 
#880
#880
Vol0725 said:
I’d like to see the next few seconds of the video, after the shooter gets back up and walks away...wonder if he puts glasses back on?
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I posted earlier that I wondered the same thing about glasses, after watching the video the first time, when dude leans over to retrieve something off the ground.
 
#881
#881
Vol0725 said:
I’d like to see the next few seconds of the video, after the shooter gets back up and walks away...wonder if he puts glasses back on?
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After the victim enters the store after the shooting, the shooter reaches to his right and picks up something that could be his glasses........The angle of the shove would have thrown his glasses in that direction as he went down.....
 
#883
#883
DynaLo said:
You know it from watching the video..the assaulted guy didn't have that luxury in the 5 or 6 seconds that lapsed between his getting assaulted and discharging his weapon in what he immediately determined/felt was a self defense situation.

Can you state with fact that the attacker did not verbally threaten him with more bodily harm or death at the time of the assault?
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Here's what I can state for a fact: a person walking away from someone, not just backed up but still in the actual process of creating space, without a weapon or any object that could be construed as a weapon, with his hands acting in no way abnormally for someone doing nothing other than continuing to walk away, being shot.

It's as though this term that's in the legal criteria for self-defense doesn't exist or is considered so malleable by some as to have no relevant meaning; reasonable. The pulling of the gun itself was entirely reasonable. Hell, if the guy had immediately pulled the trigger it would almost certainly have been considered reasonable given the circumstances leading up to that moment. Instead the above happened.
 
#884
#884
n_huffhines said:
Here is the video. I feel like some of you need to watch it again. MM pushes Drejka. His momentum carries him a little forward. Then he stops. Then he retreats. He does not reach for a weapon. And he's shot. I'm a 2A supporter who thinks opponents are lunatics. If this isn't careless use of a firearm, then opponents of 2A suddenly become a lot more sympathetic.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idbrk0c2KpU[/youtube]
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Watched over and over again, shooter reaches for something on ground after shooting, brings item into him, and appears to wipe and unfold something. Glasses? We just don’t know, the video cuts off.
 
#885
#885
Roustabout said:
Reaching for a weapon is an exaggerated motion, just like we see from the POS on the ground.
You can’t reac h for a weapon with your hands at your side.
You have to raise your elbow and shoulder
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Only if you hip or appendix carry and just to disprove your point about having to raise your shoulder or elbow, I carry cross draw, no shoulder, elbow or exaggerated movements required.
 
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#887
#887
#888
#888
Vol0725 said:
Watched over and over again, shooter reaches for something on ground after shooting, brings item into him, and appears to wipe and unfold something. Glasses? We just don’t know, the video cuts off.
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I have to admit it makes for a very interesting (no idea how legally compelling) argument what impaired eyesight could bring to the discussion.
 
#891
#891
#894
#894
CABVOL said:
I thought shell casing when I watched it.
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Possible, but unlikely. He takes in to both hands and doesn’t make hand actions like he’s hold a shell casing.

If you go back and look...He reaches down for something on he left arm or lap area, feels around, doesn’t find it, looks and reaches for the item...appears to possibly wipe off and maybe unfold glasses...not a clear image, would need to see video enhancements
 
#896
#896
n_huffhines said:
You can't shoot someone who is retreating. The fact that this is not clear to other 2A guys is scary.
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To Louder...I came late to this thread and didn't read all the pages. I took the shooter to be a senior, and I took him to be taking up for himself ...to find out it was his mother who is disabled. However.... many disabled folk are young, the age of a disabled person needing HC parking is immaterial. I've needed 6 mos. temporary HC hangtags from my early 20s. Probably only needed one half a dozen times until a few years ago and I got a permanent one. But when you really need one and all are taken and you see a non HC car taking one up it's really irratating. I tell myself maybe they forgot to hang it up.

The guy teaching the Concealed Carry course I took pounded into our heads that once the decision to draw the weapon was made we were holding life in our hands, not just the gun. We had to believe our life or body was in imminent danger...we had to have provocation.

Then the act of unlimbering/exposing the concealed weapon becomes a threat of the use of deadly force.
After exposing the weapon
we had to think on three things because just seeing a gun may cause the agressor to pull one. So, immediately:

1. Release the safety,
2. Put your finger on the trigger
3. We are responsible for our bullet, are there innocent bystanders, etc.
4. So, DO NOT directly aim at the aggressor but safely just away and KNOW you're life or serious bodily harm is in IMMINENT danger. If so, center your sights.
5. Aim in center of chest to STOP the aggressor, not wound, they can kill you wounded. Use as many rounds as necessary.

I don't see provocation to take deadly aim after he exposed his weapon. I can't hear anything.

He had already been viciously attacked and knocked to the ground.

Personally, I can't call it murder. It may be manslaughter.
He may go free.
 
#897
#897
Vol0725 said:
The pause & step back lasted 1.5-2 seconds before we notice a victim reaction to the shot. Happened fast. Shooter may have never noticed pause/step back. We just don’t know.

By the way, does the shooter wear glasses? (Based on photos I’ve seen, yes)
Were they knocked off or sideways?
We’re they on? Near-sighted, far-sighted or legally blind without them?
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Pretty fancy shooting if he couldn't see very well.
 
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#898
#898
If you kept every detail exactly the same, except give the person with the gun a vay-jj, does your opinion or pov change?
 
#900
#900
DynaLo said:
If you kept every detail exactly the same, except give the person with the gun a vay-jj, does your opinion or pov change?
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Doesn't for me, same as if it were an LEO. However, to the point to which you allude, I'm 100% sure it would for some.
 
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