15 Numbers: November Edition

#251
#251
MemphisCanes said:
Well, you can be worried about your offense if you'd like. Your defense what you need to be MORE worried about though.

Your offense is putting up points, your defense can't stop anybody.
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I'm worried about both, I just think it's funny when people say our efficiency is good so our offense is fine. You can watch us for 5 minutes and see our offensive issues, it's getting bailed out by 2 things which skews numbers and we look (numbers wise) like a good offense. A good coach has and will capitalize on that, and until the offense is fixed we are in trouble against good teams.

A defensive coach that can't coach defense, I'd rather not talk about that issue.
 
#252
#252
If you are relying on missed shots and putbacks to have a high eff % and effective offense, it will catch up to you. I think we had in single digits as far as offensive rebounds against wichy state after probably averaging 15+ in our wins and shockingly, the eff rate was down.
 
#253
#253
BadJerry20 said:
I'm worried about both, I just think it's funny when people say our efficiency is good so our offense is fine. You can watch us for 5 minutes and see our offensive issues, it's getting bailed out by 2 things which skews numbers and we look (numbers wise) like a good offense. A good coach has and will capitalize on that, and until the offense is fixed we are in trouble against good teams.

A defensive coach that can't coach defense, I'd rather not talk about that issue.
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I never said your offense was fine, it's just playing efficiently.
 
#254
#254
MemphisCanes said:
I never said your offense was fine, it's just playing efficiently.
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It's efficient against lesser competition because Stokes tends to beast, against top competition not so much. And I think that's what Sparty is getting at, when offensive rebounding fails us our offense is in trouble. If we had a better offense we could survive those nights, we don't and we can't. Therefore our efficiency rating can be misleading.
 
#255
#255
The offense sucks. It has since he got here. That's the main reason why we can't get in the tourney. Who cares if a suckass offense that peaks with first round nit losses is categorized by some fool staring at a number as efficient. Top 20 in efficiency equals soon to be fired if its not fixed by better spacing and improved individual skillsets.
 
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#256
#256
Spartacavolus said:
The offense sucks. It has since he got here. That's the main reason why we can't get in the tourney. Who cares if a suckass offense that peaks with first round nit losses is categorized by some fool staring at a number as efficient. Top 20 in efficiency equals soon to be fired if its not fixed by better spacing and improved individual skillsets.
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Agreed
 
#257
#257
Spartacavolus said:
If you are relying on missed shots and putbacks to have a high eff % and effective offense, it will catch up to you. I think we had in single digits as far as offensive rebounds against wichy state after probably averaging 15+ in our wins and shockingly, the eff rate was down.
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Our Effective Possesion Ration against WS was terrible.
This one might be a little more important though.
Might be scary for the stat lovers.
Defensive Efficiency

3 Virginia 0.848
14 Wichita St 0.886
18 LSU 0.895
31 Florida 0.910
39 Kentucky 0.919
41 Missouri 0.921
48 Arkansas 0.932
56 Mississippi 0.941
62 Alabama 0.945
96 S Carolina 0.964
129 Tennessee 0.991
 
#258
#258
calban said:
Our Effective Possesion Ration against WS was terrible.
This one might be a little more important though.
Might be scary for the stat lovers.
Defensive Efficiency

3 Virginia 0.848
14 Wichita St 0.886
18 LSU 0.895
31 Florida 0.910
39 Kentucky 0.919
41 Missouri 0.921
48 Arkansas 0.932
56 Mississippi 0.941
62 Alabama 0.945
96 S Carolina 0.964
129 Tennessee 0.991
Click to expand...

Preach.
 
#259
#259
calban said:
Our Effective Possesion Ration against WS was terrible.
This one might be a little more important though.
Might be scary for the stat lovers.
Defensive Efficiency

3 Virginia 0.848
14 Wichita St 0.886
18 LSU 0.895
31 Florida 0.910
39 Kentucky 0.919
41 Missouri 0.921
48 Arkansas 0.932
56 Mississippi 0.941
62 Alabama 0.945
96 S Carolina 0.964
129 Tennessee 0.991
Click to expand...

meh. Just a quick glance at the LSU schedule and you see they gave up 92 to UMASS and have had their best def eff rates against Xavier of N.O., New Orleans, SW Louisiana and UL Monroe, or inferior competition, just as our off eff rating is so high due to playing 6 cupcakes.
 
#262
#262
Spartacavolus said:
meh. Just a quick glance at the LSU schedule and you see they gave up 92 to UMASS and have had their best def eff rates against Xavier of N.O., New Orleans, SW Louisiana and UL Monroe, or inferior competition, just as our off eff rating is so high due to playing 6 cupcakes.
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Everyone has played about 6 cupcakes so far, Wooden.
 
#264
#264
Spartacavolus said:
yet you are "preach"ing about def eff stats for other teams based on them playing some of the worst teams in D1. More brilliance from statboy.
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Everyone has played the same amount of cupcakes, generally. Therefore there is no strength of schedule bias/prejudice for any of these teams. Their numbers are all comparable.

Your grasp of numbers continues to amaze me. You simply don't like stats because you don't comprehend them. But keep on digging that hole.
 
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#265
#265
you are so fos. It has nothing to do with liking or disliking stats. It has to do everything else that has to do with that one stat. You can only look at one #, while I look at the entire picture as to what factors into a final stat and you can't comprehend/don't like looking at it that way. Too bad.
That's why you think we have an efficient offense while any other schmuck watching knows our offense sucks and the only thing making it efficient are offensive rebounds. Learn the game that happens on the floor a little, then come back for discussion as evidently, you don't know jack **** about basketball other than stats, which is why you are a statboy.
Or are you going to "back peddle" again, genius.
 
#266
#266
Spartacavolus said:
you are so fos. It has nothing to do with liking or disliking stats. It has to do everything else that has to do with that one stat. You can only look at one #, while I look at the entire picture as to what factors into a final stat and you can't comprehend/don't like looking at it that way. Too bad.

That's why you think we have an efficient offense while any other schmuck watching knows our offense sucks and the only thing making it efficient are offensive rebounds. Learn the game that happens on the floor a little, then come back for discussion as evidently, you don't know jack **** about basketball other than stats, which is why you are a statboy.
Or are you going to "back peddle" again, genius.
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YOU DO HAVE AN EFFICIENT OFFENSE. That's not my opinion, that's simply the truth based on the numbers. The numbers do not lie, Coach.

You don't seem to comprehend this, but offensive rebounds are part of the game of basketball. You say that UT doesn't have an efficient offense, despite what the numbers are telling you; then out of the other side of your mouth you say that UT's offense is only efficient because of offensive rebounds. Which is it, efficient or inefficient?

This is the kind of stuff you learn when you play HS ball. Rudimentary, bottom-rung type of understanding of how the game works. The game has simply passed you by if you can't comprehend what everyone in this thread is trying to teach you.
 
#267
#267
Spartacavolus said:
you are so fos. It has nothing to do with liking or disliking stats. It has to do everything else that has to do with that one stat. You can only look at one #, while I look at the entire picture as to what factors into a final stat and you can't comprehend/don't like looking at it that way. Too bad.
That's why you think we have an efficient offense while any other schmuck watching knows our offense sucks and the only thing making it efficient are offensive rebounds. Learn the game that happens on the floor a little, then come back for discussion as evidently, you don't know jack **** about basketball other than stats, which is why you are a statboy.
Or are you going to "back peddle" again, genius.
Click to expand...

Are you saying our offense is efficient?
 
#269
#269
MemphisCanes said:
YOU DO HAVE AN EFFICIENT OFFENSE. That's not my opinion, that's simply the truth based on the numbers. The numbers do not lie, Coach.

You don't seem to comprehend this, but offensive rebounds are part of the game of basketball. You say that UT doesn't have an efficient offense, despite what the numbers are telling you; then out of the other side of your mouth you say that UT's offense is only efficient because of offensive rebounds. Which is it, efficient or inefficient?

This is the kind of stuff you learn when you play HS ball. Rudimentary, bottom-rung type of understanding of how the game works. The game has simply passed you by if you can't comprehend what everyone in this thread is trying to teach you.
Click to expand...

Offensive rebounds are a component of the offense, hence the term "offensive".

I think the hangup is in the definition of an efficient offense. Statistically, it essentially boils down to points per possession. Doesn't matter how it goes in, just that it does (novel concept!). On the other hand you can watch us play and see that Tennessee doesn't score at ease, thus it's not efficient - and they are just being bailed out by offensive boards.
 
#270
#270
golfballs said:
Are you saying our offense is efficient?
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offensive rebounding skews the eff stat. I guess I have to repeat it 100 times. If you want to think our bottom of the conference fga/fgm/fg% is efficient, feel free. You fools are too dense to realize it's "efficient" due to off rebs against cupcakes.
Like I posted yesterday, you can have your skewed efficient offense and talk about it being top 20 till your face is blue. Nobody cares about efficiency when your offense sucks, which makes the top 20 eff stat absolutely worthless.
 
#271
#271
golfballs said:
Offensive rebounds are a component of the offense, hence the term "offensive".

I think the hangup is in the definition of an efficient offense. Statistically, it essentially boils down to points per possession. Doesn't matter how it goes in, just that it does (novel concept!). On the other hand you can watch us play and see that Tennessee doesn't score at ease, thus it's not efficient - and they are just being bailed out by offensive boards.
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nailed it. Looking at an eff stat on a sheet of paper is one thing. Knowing what is happening on the floor is another. Combine them and you have good analysis. Stopping at eff rate to analyze is stupidity and that's what he's been doing. "The sheet says it, so it must be true", isn't how the game is analyzed.
 
#272
#272
Spartacavolus said:
nailed it. Looking at an eff stat on a sheet of paper is one thing. Knowing what is happening on the floor is another. Combine them and you have good analysis. Stopping at eff rate to analyze is stupidity and that's what he's been doing. "The sheet says it, so it must be true", isn't how the game is analyzed.
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That's what we've been trying to tell you for pages now.

You claim that Offensive Efficiency is to be discarded because it takes into account offensive rebounds, which makes no sense. It takes into account everything on the offensive end of the ball, even down to an individual players' FT%.

Then you turn around and claim that UT's offense isn't efficient, and then in the same breath claim that it is.
 
#273
#273
Spartacavolus said:
offensive rebounding skews the eff stat. I guess I have to repeat it 100 times. If you want to think our bottom of the conference fga/fgm/fg% is efficient, feel free. You fools are too dense to realize it's "efficient" due to off rebs against cupcakes.
Like I posted yesterday, you can have your skewed efficient offense and talk about it being top 20 till your face is blue. Nobody cares about efficiency when your offense sucks, which makes the top 20 eff stat absolutely worthless.
Click to expand...

EVERYTHING on the offensive side of the ball "skews" the offensive efficiency stat, genius.

You just think the offense sucks because the team isn't doing well, so you can't accept what the numbers are telling you. You can argue that the team isn't executing properly (which you haven't tried to argue yet), but you can't argue that the team isn't scoring efficiently. That's simply not the case.
 
#274
#274
MemphisCanes said:
That's what we've been trying to tell you for pages now.

You claim that Offensive Efficiency is to be discarded because it takes into account offensive rebounds, which makes no sense. It takes into account everything on the offensive end of the ball, even down to an individual players' FT%.

Then you turn around and claim that UT's offense isn't efficient, and then in the same breath claim that it is.
Click to expand...


I'm saying you have to look at fga/fgm/fg% when discussing an efficient offense while you only want to look at one #, without watching one game, and come to a conclusion. That's idiotic. But go figure. Same fool thinks backpeddle is a word.
 
#275
#275
golfballs said:
Offensive rebounds are a component of the offense, hence the term "offensive".

I think the hangup is in the definition of an efficient offense. Statistically, it essentially boils down to points per possession. Doesn't matter how it goes in, just that it does (novel concept!). On the other hand you can watch us play and see that Tennessee doesn't score at ease, thus it's not efficient - and they are just being bailed out by offensive boards.
Click to expand...

At what point do the offensive boards stop being an anomaly??? Cuonzo's offense was 63rd in the country last season (the defense was a woeful 122nd), and the Vols were 38th in the country in offensive rebounding rate. This year his offense is 21st (defense a putrid 67th) and the Vols are 5th in O rebounding rate.

I can't see why these rebounds are "bail outs" when that's what his offense has been focusing on for at least 2 years now. Seems to be a pattern. But put back buckets count as much other baskets.
 
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