'16 NJ RB Kareem Walker

#351
#351
Volunteer_Kirby said:
Butch is one of the best recruiters in the business right now. Top 5 guy in my book, especially if he maintains another top 5 or 6 class in 2016 (which is looking more and more doable as times moves forward). It's going to be incredibly difficult for anyone to surpass Nick Saban as top dog. He has that spot nailed down 8 years straight.
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Thinking about our record over the last 4 years, it's amazing the level of talent Butch has gotten the last two classes.
 
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#352
#352
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#354
#354
BigOrangeTrain said:
I like me some Butch but you're wrong. Butch hasn't signed a #1 recruiting class yet. Much less the last 4 in a row. He is definitely in the top 5 though.
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You could make a debate out of it. The top 5 classes to a .500 team vs. the #1 classes to a title contender. But i'm with you.
 
#355
#355
Catbone said:
We would win the SEC with those numbers.
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No offense Bone, but 2000 total yards from Hurd-Kamara just ain't that much. For example, the top 3 rushing teams in the SEC each ran for 3000+yds last year....none of them won the SEC. As a matter of fact, Arkansas had two 1,100 yard rushers and didnt sniff the SECCG. I think we'll need more from those 2 and many, many other things to go in our favor before we'll have to chance to win the league.
 
#357
#357
KBVol said:
No offense Bone, but 2000 total yards from Hurd-Kamara just ain't that much. For example, the top 3 rushing teams in the SEC each ran for 3000+yds last year....none of them won the SEC. As a matter of fact, Arkansas had two 1,100 yard rushers and didnt sniff the SECCG. I think we'll need more from those 2 and many, many other things to go in our favor before we'll have to chance to win the league.
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Oh okay. I didn't expect us to win it anyway. Still say 7-5 or 8-4.
 
#358
#358
Catbone said:
Oh okay. I didn't expect us to win it anyway. Still say 7-5 or 8-4.
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You remind me of the psychologist from the movie What about Bob... "Baby steps"

I think we will do better than that, with the only thing that could change my mind being Dobbs gets hurt or some other Big issue that could not have been predicted imo.
 
#359
#359
BigOrangeTrain said:
I like me some Butch but you're wrong. Butch hasn't signed a #1 recruiting class yet. Much less the last 4 in a row. He is definitely in the top 5 though.
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Top 5 after 5-7 and 7-6 seasons though. Easy to pull a top 5 recruiting class when you're winning conference or national championships, not so much when you're cleaning up after Derek Doolittle.
 
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#361
#361
Spirit_of_98 said:
Top 5 after 5-7 and 7-6 seasons though. Easy to pull a top 5 recruiting class when you're winning conference or national championships, not so much when you're cleaning up after Derek Doolittle.
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Bingo! It's what makes Butch's success on the recruiting trail stuff that legends are made of.
 
#362
#362
KBVol said:
No offense Bone, but 2000 total yards from Hurd-Kamara just ain't that much. For example, the top 3 rushing teams in the SEC each ran for 3000+yds last year....none of them won the SEC. As a matter of fact, Arkansas had two 1,100 yard rushers and didnt sniff the SECCG. I think we'll need more from those 2 and many, many other things to go in our favor before we'll have to chance to win the league.
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Alabama won the SEC and their top 2 rushers had less than 1900 yds. Throw in the 500 that Dobbs is likely to have and you have something.
 
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#363
#363
jp1 said:
Alabama won the SEC and their top 2 rushers had less than 1900 yds. Throw in the 500 that Dobbs is likely to have and you have something.
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I think his point was that a 2000 yard tandem alone doesn't result in a SECCG. Bama also had a 100+ reception receiver that couldn't be stopped.
 
#365
#365
BigOrangeTrain said:
I like me some Butch but you're wrong. Butch hasn't signed a #1 recruiting class yet. Much less the last 4 in a row. He is definitely in the top 5 though.
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You can't just look at the rankings. You have to look at the circumstances.

Saban has 4 rings and is recruiting to the most historically successful college football program that is an All-SEC, All-American, and NFL draft pick factory in the deep South.

Butch is recruiting to a program that hasn't been nationally relevant in over 10 years and the only "proof" that we're on the rise is a TaxSlayer Bowl trophy and a 7-6 season.

I have no doubt that Butch will start pulling in absurdly loaded classes as early as this cycle if we start winning some real games again.
 
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#366
#366
Aesius said:
You can't just look at the rankings. You have to look at the circumstances.

Saban has 4 rings and is recruiting to the most historically successful college football program that is an All-SEC, All-American, and NFL draft pick factory in the deep South.

Butch is recruiting to a program that hasn't been nationally relevant in over 10 years and the only "proof" that we're on the rise is a TaxSlayer Bowl trophy and a 7-6 season.

I have no doubt that Butch will start pulling in absurdly loaded classes as early as this cycle if we start winning some real games again.
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Let's not exaggerate... It's bad enough as it is... It hasnt been over 10 years since we were relevant. It's been 7 years. I consider being SEC east champs, playing in the SECCG, winning 10 games and being ranked in the top 10 or 11 to still be relevant. That was 2007.. We won 9 the year before, etc.
 
#367
#367
CWGvol said:
Let's not exaggerate... It's bad enough as it is... It hasnt been over 10 years since we were relevant. It's been 7 years. I consider being SEC east champs, playing in the SECCG, winning 10 games and being ranked in the top 10 or 11 to still be relevant. That was 2007.. We won 9 the year before, etc.
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Saying we were relevant in 2004 is actually the exaggeration. In reality, we haven't been a threat to win a national title or make a BCS bowl since 2001. The East title in 2007 was due to a big upset of a better UGA team and other teams in the division beating up on each other. Florida and a 7-6 Bama team demolished us that year.
 
#368
#368
Aesius said:
Saying we were relevant in 2004 is actually the exaggeration. In reality, we haven't been a threat to win a national title or make a BCS bowl since 2001. The East title in 2007 was due to a big upset of a better UGA team and other teams in the division beating up on each other. Florida and a 7-6 Bama team demolished us that year.
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The matter of relevancy is highly subjective and also meaningless if given no context to work from such as being relevant to who or what. In 2004, Tennessee ended Georgia's 17 game home winning streak when the Dawgs were ranked 3rd and finished 7th. 2 of Tennessee's 3 losses were to Auburn who finished undefeated (and Tenn was competitive in the SECCG). Had Tenn not been down to their 3rd string QB in the 2nd half vs Notre Dame an 11-2 season would have been likely (10-3 not bad anyway). Tennessee also won the Cotton Bowl in a blowout and finished the season ranked 13th in the AP poll. Define relevant however you like but that was a solid season by a very good team that didn't have much luck staying healthy.
 
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#369
#369
KBVol said:
No offense Bone, but 2000 total yards from Hurd-Kamara just ain't that much. For example, the top 3 rushing teams in the SEC each ran for 3000+yds last year....none of them won the SEC. As a matter of fact, Arkansas had two 1,100 yard rushers and didnt sniff the SECCG. I think we'll need more from those 2 and many, many other things to go in our favor before we'll have to chance to win the league.
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You're measuring two RBs against entire teams.

Throw in 500-600 from Dobbs plus 300-400 from backups, jet sweeps, ends around, etc., and we're right there in the mix.
 
#370
#370
Aesius said:
Saying we were relevant in 2004 is actually the exaggeration. In reality, we haven't been a threat to win a national title or make a BCS bowl since 2001. The East title in 2007 was due to a big upset of a better UGA team and other teams in the division beating up on each other. Florida and a 7-6 Bama team demolished us that year.
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I agree. Relevant from a national perspective means two losses or less with regularity, playing in major bowl games, churning out draft picks, consistently getting picked as a national title contender, etc. We haven't been at that level in a long time. Is what it is.
 
#372
#372
vol2002 said:
I agree. Relevant from a national perspective means two losses or less with regularity, playing in major bowl games, churning out draft picks, consistently getting picked as a national title contender, etc. We haven't been at that level in a long time. Is what it is.
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Well, you did at least give the word relevant (most overused word on college football message boards by far) a little context with 'national perspective' but that's still highly subjective. If the criteria you have given is truly what it takes to be relevant from a national perspective then I guess we will just have to live with being irrelevant along with 95% of the other teams in college football because it's just not going to happen.
 
#373
#373
Aesius said:
Saying we were relevant in 2004 is actually the exaggeration. In reality, we haven't been a threat to win a national title or make a BCS bowl since 2001. The East title in 2007 was due to a big upset of a better UGA team and other teams in the division beating up on each other. Florida and a 7-6 Bama team demolished us that year.
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You said relevant, not title contenders. I didn't mention 2004, only 2006 and 2007. But yes, we were relevant in 2004 as well. National title contenders... No.
 
#374
#374
BowlBrother85 said:
Well, you did at least give the word relevant (most overused word on college football message boards by far) a little context with 'national perspective' but that's still highly subjective. If the criteria you have given is truly what it takes to be relevant from a national perspective then I guess we will just have to live with being irrelevant along with 95% of the other teams in college football because it's just not going to happen.
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Not every team can be in the national championship conversation every year, but IMO relevancy applies to teams that are in the picture at least once every 3-4 years and that stay inside the top 25 the rest of the time.

BCS bowls and conference championships are another big indicator.

I would put the 2004 and 2007 seasons roughly on par with Missouri's past two seasons, and they weren't really "relevant" when compared to teams like Bama, FSU, Ohio State, TCU, Baylor, Oregon, Michigan State, etc.

Of course, it's all subjective. We as a fanbase will undoubtedly consider the Vols relevant if we crack the top 25 this year, and we will be based on the "comeback" story, but eventually you have to move up from a perennial 9-10 win, postseason #15 ranking to reach that next level of prestige and respect. Fulmer had a tough time doing that after 2001.
 
#375
#375
Aesius said:
Not every team can be in the national championship conversation every year, but IMO relevancy applies to teams that are in the picture at least once every 3-4 years and that stay inside the top 25 the rest of the time.

BCS bowls and conference championships are another big indicator.

I would put the 2004 and 2007 seasons roughly on par with Missouri's past two seasons, and they weren't really "relevant" when compared to teams like Bama, FSU, Ohio State, TCU, Baylor, Oregon, Michigan State, etc.

Of course, it's all subjective. We as a fanbase will undoubtedly consider the Vols relevant if we crack the top 25 this year, and we will be based on the "comeback" story, but eventually you have to move up from a perennial 9-10 win, postseason #15 ranking to reach that next level of prestige and respect. Fulmer had a tough time doing that after 2001.
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I would agree with all of this... I would just add that a run like '95 to '01 may very well never happen again but I do expect a run like '85 to '93 to happen again and pretty soon. I think that would turn heads nationally and be just fine with our fan base.
 
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