1997 heisman trophy

who should have won the 1997 heisman trophy

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#26
#26
Agreed, Nobody in there right mind would take Woodson over Manning if they were putting a team together and Manning is by far a better player at this point but Woodson was the more outstanding all around player that year. I am a huge Manning fan and cannot stand Michigan or Woodson but I refuse to let orange goggles blind me.
 
#27
#27
Originally posted by Crew@Oct 3, 2005 5:57 PM
I love what peyton did for us... But, If he wanted that trophy he should've beaten florida.

You don't leave it to the voters...make it impossible for them to vote against you. Woodson was a flashy, fast gamebreaking conrerback on an undefeated team. Peyton was a great Qb who never beat Florida.
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That's why the Heisman is a joke now. It shouldn't be about winning and losing...it should be about who's the best player in college football. That player can't help what the people around him do. That's why Hornung won it. He was the best player in college football even though his team went 2-8. It's not supposed to be a stat award. Tommie Frazier was one of the best college football players I ever had the pleasure of watching...but his stats weren't exciting, so...
 
#28
#28
Originally posted by holdemvol@Oct 3, 2005 3:25 PM
I would hope a QB would have better point production than a DB.  How many times did Manning get an INT?  Comparing point production to a defensive player's is a pretty weak argument.
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He won the Heisman because he played offense too! My comparison was to show that Woodson's influence over a game was no where near the level of Manning's. 17.5 points per game... even "prevented" points is alot to overcome by a defensive player.

Let's see, Manning attempted 477 passes, rushed the ball another 49 times... that's at least 526 plays where Manning had a direct influence... not including audibles to running plays after reading the defense.

Woodson had 5 rushes, 12 receptions, 36 punt returns, 47 total tackles, 9 pbu, and 8 interceptions for a grand total of 117 plays where he had a direct influence.

Let's face it.... it was a novelty for an all-american defensive back to play on offense.... and he returned 1 punt against Ohio State for the game winning touchdown. That is all he had to do to win the Heisman. Champ Bailey was a better all-around player and athlete than Woodson.

Who was more important to the success of their team?
 
#29
#29
Originally posted by Crew@Oct 3, 2005 5:57 PM
I love what peyton did for us... But, If he wanted that trophy he should've beaten florida.

You don't leave it to the voters...make it impossible for them to vote against you. Woodson was a flashy, fast gamebreaking conrerback on an undefeated team. Peyton was a great Qb who never beat Florida.
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Football is a team game and thus I blame the losses to Florida on the Tennessee team and coaching staff as whole. Just like I attribute Michigan's wins to the whole team. Let's face it, Woodson was a good defensive back, but average at everything else he did. He was a novelty and should not have won the Heisman. Give the Heisman to Leaf that season or Moss if you want, but Woodson was not the best player in the country nor was he the most valuable.
 
#30
#30
Originally posted by tvolsfan@Oct 2, 2005 1:49 PM
i no im a volsfan but i honestly say charles woodson. peyton manning threw for 3800 yards, and today that would be plenty. (only good qb's win today).

but consider this, the heisman goes to the most OUTSTANDING cfb player. i think that was woodoson. he was the most outstanding player. peyton lead us to a great season 11-2 but woodson lead the woverines to 12-0. woodson made huge plays whenever it counted. he was the most outstanding player. he did everything. he was like reggie bush (who i think should win more then lineart for the same outstanding reason).
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Was Hines Ward in the running that year? He played all over the field for GA. I was hoping Eli would have won it and given it back because of the screw job Peyton got! But like you say, thats water under the bridge!
 
#31
#31
Originally posted by allvol@Oct 4, 2005 1:51 PM
Football is a team game and thus I blame the losses to Florida on the Tennessee team and coaching staff as whole.  Just like I attribute Michigan's wins to the whole team.  Let's face it, Woodson was a good defensive back, but average at everything else he did.  He was a novelty and should not have won the Heisman.  Give the Heisman to Leaf that season or Moss if you want, but Woodson was not the best player in the country nor was he the most valuable.
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woodson was more valuable then you think.

when you have dangerous punt returns, game changing pics, momentum changing big play catches to set up td's all over, you are pretty good.

one more thing that goes ignored about woodson. how effective is it when you shut down your opponets star recievers. it really hurts the other team. woodson pretty much took the othe reciever out of the game.
 
#32
#32
Originally posted by allvol@Oct 4, 2005 12:48 PM
He won the Heisman because he played offense too!  My comparison was to show that Woodson's influence over a game was no where near the level of Manning's.  17.5 points per game... even "prevented" points is alot to overcome by a defensive player.

Let's see, Manning attempted 477 passes, rushed the ball another 49 times... that's at least 526 plays where Manning had a direct influence... not including audibles to running plays after reading the defense.

Woodson had 5 rushes, 12 receptions, 36 punt returns, 47 total tackles, 9 pbu, and 8 interceptions for a grand total of 117 plays where he had a direct influence. 

Let's face it.... it was a novelty for an all-american defensive back to play on offense.... and he returned 1 punt against Ohio State for the game winning touchdown.  That is all he had to do to win the Heisman.  Champ Bailey was a better all-around player and athlete than Woodson.

Who was more important to the success of their team?
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That argument holds no water. The only way you could compare direct influence is if the opposing QB threw in Woodson's direction on every single passing play in every game, because manning touched the ball on every offensive snap. Comparing a QB and a DB is like comparing apples and oranges. If we are going to base it all on stats......Manning threw 190 incompletions that year. That equals 190 lost downs that manning was responsible for in part. He also threw 11 interceptions, how many turnovers did Woodson commit? The argument I just made was obviously ridiculous, but my point is that you cannot just throw stats around to determine who was more outstanding that year when comparing a QB and DB. If it worked like that then every QB in the country would have deserved it more than Woodson because they all had more plays where they had a "direct influence".
 
#33
#33
I'd like to see Peyton throw a few balls towards Charles Woodson, and when that sh!t gets taken back the other way for a score, Woodson can plant his foot in Manning's chest and strike the Heisman pose as Peyton attempts to make the tackle...
 
#35
#35
Probably nothing... Jmx just has a foot planted more firmly in reality than most other posters here.
 
#36
#36
as a vol fan, i would have liked to see manning get it obviously, but i think woodson deserved it...besides he's done more as a heisman winner than 90% of the cats who've recieved it since '90.
 
#37
#37
Originally posted by craigb_702@Oct 5, 2005 2:16 AM
as a vol fan, i would have liked to see manning get it obviously, but i think woodson deserved it...besides he's done more  as a heisman winner than 90% of the cats who've recieved it since '90.
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What have they done since?
 
#38
#38
it doesn't matter what theyve done since. the trophy isnt awarded to the player who is thought to do the most in the nfl. if that were the case then ryan leaf wouldnt have even been in new york that night.
 
#39
#39
Originally posted by duckman398686@Oct 5, 2005 2:45 PM
it doesn't matter what theyve done since. the trophy isnt awarded to the player who is thought to do the most in the nfl. if that were the case then ryan leaf wouldnt have even been in new york that night.
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Exactly. It is not the "most NFL potential" trophy.
 
#41
#41
Originally posted by holdemvol@Oct 5, 2005 5:31 PM
Exactly.  It is not the "most NFL potential" trophy.
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Im well aware of the "meaning" behind the award. I guess over the years for me, it has lost a touch of luster. All of the preseason hoopla, to the late season politicking.

The words, "Heisman Trophy" and "NFL Draft" sure are used alot in the same (media/TV) sentences. :question:
 
#43
#43
Originally posted by duckman398686@Oct 4, 2005 11:32 PM
What do you have against Peyton jmx????? :huh:
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Nothing, I love Peyton and I watch the Colts everytime they are on
 
#44
#44
Originally posted by milohimself@Oct 5, 2005 12:04 AM
Probably nothing... Jmx just has a foot planted more firmly in reality than most other posters here.
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That's why I love you, Milo...
 
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