2 things: Thoughs on Bajakian and Jason Croom...

#76
#76
Yeah, I'm still not sold on Bajakian's offense. It doesn't seem to have much potential to be really explosive. Maybe it is hamstrung at the moment with personnel, but when you tell me that you need top level players to run your system effectively, I think "You know what system is effective with top level players? ALL OF THEM." Why run a system if it doesn't give the players you have an advantage?

The thing that most worries me are the comparisons with Meyer's system (which only really worked well in the SEC with Tim Tebow running it) and the fact that we don't have, nor are we recruiting a big strong running QB like Tebow or like Lefevour that they had at Central Michigan. I just don't see how this system will ever be particularly explosive and I find it odd that we are using a system that seems designed to feature a big strong running QB when we don't have one and don't look like getting one anytime soon.

I've seen more big runs this year than I probably saw in the previous three combined-- with less talent. The pass to North in the last SC drive was pretty explosive. Cinci was also pretty explosive.

Would you rather implement one system now, and then go through the pains of system-implementation again two years from now when they change to their preferred system? Or would you rather take some lumps now while we are also building a roster? (Oh, and our roster hasn't shown it could do well as a pro-style either.)
 
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#78
#78
First off, just wanted to get an overall opinion of how everyone is feeling about OC Mike Bajakian. I, personally, think he is too dry and predictable. I mean Randy Sanders looks like Mike Leach compared to him! lol Yes, we won the game Saturday against SC, and have had some nice passing plays, but he can be dryer than a desert. Maybe we just don't have the talent he needs to be more creative, Im not sure.

Secondly, WHERE THE HELL IS JASON CROOM?!! lol This guy has been irrelevant other than the 4 yrd TD in Eugene and that 1st down catch on Saturday. He is a beast and should be playing like a beast! The guy is taller than any DB that plays against him. We should be using him like my Lions use Megatron. Did you see those leaping catches he made yesterday...unbelievable!! Croom could be doing these things! Is he simply underachieving?

Thoughts on both??

That dry predictability was pretty impressive when we went for it on those 4th downs against UGA.

That dry predictability got us the W last week.
 
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#79
#79
I've seen more big runs this year than I probably saw in the previous three combined-- with less talent. The pass to North in the last SC drive was pretty explosive. Cinci was also pretty explosive.

Would you rather implement one system now, and then go through the pains of system-implementation again two years from now when they change to their preferred system? Or would you rather take some lumps now while we are also building a roster? (Oh, and our roster hasn't shown it could do well as a pro-style either.)

Good post Crush.

There is no denying that our offense has improved this season.
 
#80
#80
I like the new offense. People worried about the spread being to finesse for the SEC, was highly over exaggerated. When we have a QB playing at a higher level, this offense will really be good. We really need a good blocking TE. On some of the plays that Clowney blew up, our TE was suppose to have picked him up.
 
#81
#81
Good post Crush.

There is no denying that our offense has improved this season.

Can't answer since I don't agree with anything you said.

Perhaps you should send them a note giving them tips on what and how they can improve their performances.
 
#84
#84
I'm OK with the vanilla playbook due to the WR's easing into things and realize he is limited in what he can call. I do think we could use them on a little more quick slant action with their size, which is pretty basic high school route running. The only real problem I have is this "read option" bs where everyone and their grandmother know by now that Worley is not going to keep the ball one single time. You can bet that AL and the rest of the teams on our schedule have already watched enough game tape to know to just stay home and concentrate on the RB. Our running game will be harder and harder to implement now that teams are figuring this out.
 
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#85
#85
Go back and watch some UC tape, and do not post anymore about the offense until you do.
GREAT POST!!!
Amen brother!!! We lack talent in a QB that has a bunch of footwork problems,and a bunch of young men in a whole
new system.... Worley and the team have done wonders
and improved every single game..
 
#86
#86
I'm wondering if Worley "sees" Croom (I know... how can you not). I say this because Worley seems to throw mostly to his first and second reads (North or Pig.. which is fine too). and usually to the receiver that he puts his eyes on first.

Maybe someone else with qb knowledge can help... Am I overthinking this? Do qb's start reads to the slot receiver often?

The ball needs to be in Croom's hands more... He's a load to bring down. I'm thinking...quick slants... something that he can run with from the slot.

all in all Croom is doing just fine!
 
#87
#87
It boils down to these kids do not execute consistently. He isn't giving them anything difficult to run. Which tells me when they do start clicking in a year or so we will be fun to watch. Think about it we just beat a top 15 team with a pretty bland offense
 
#89
#89
A little limited in what he can call, but seriously I thought maybe he had fallen asleep at the wheel a couple of times Saturday.
Croom may not know the play book.Surely bunching 2 receivers and 3 defenders in one corner of the end zone wasn't a called play.

Don't insult his intelligence. he's the ONEplayer that can tell you every play.

I guarantee you that.
 
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#90
#90
I don't think it's so much that Bajakian needs to be loaded with top level football players to run his system as it is he just needs greater depth and experience and guys who fit his system.

As it stands, almost non of our offensive starters were recruited to run this system. This is most glaring at QB (a QB who can tuck it and take 4-5 yards on a read option six or seven times a game would be HUGE in helping move the chains) and at TE (Downs seems to fit what we want to de decently, but isn't all that explosive and Branisel isn't far enough along blocking to get consistent reps. This also limits the number of 2TE sets we can use, which limits play calling.)

I think we have the guys we need at WR, but they need to continue to gain experience.

And as far as Meyer's offense goes, you're forgetting that he won a championship with Chris Leak. We haven't recruited someone like Lefavour/Tebow, but it wouldn't surprise me a bit if one of our true freshmen turned out to be as good or better than Leak.

No, I'm not forgetting Meyer won a championship with Leak. I recognize that offense didn't win them the championship, their defense did. Even Meyer would admit that offense wasn't very good. If we're aspiring to an offense like Meyer had with Leak, then we aren't aiming very high at all.
 
#91
#91
I've seen more big runs this year than I probably saw in the previous three combined-- with less talent. The pass to North in the last SC drive was pretty explosive. Cinci was also pretty explosive.

The two big North catches were great. Both were just "throw it up and hope your receiver comes down with it". They weren't emblematic of any kind of system. If those are all we can rely on to make big plays, then you could be running any kind of system.

Would you rather implement one system now, and then go through the pains of system-implementation again two years from now when they change to their preferred system? Or would you rather take some lumps now while we are also building a roster? (Oh, and our roster hasn't shown it could do well as a pro-style either.)

Yeah, this is what I don't get at all. If the system doesn't take advantage of the players you have now, why install it? Because you think you might have different players in a few years? Then why aren't you recruiting a QB, since that seems to be the glaring thing missing and the crucial piece to running this system?

And why does this system take so long to install anyway? Why do you have to start installing it in hopes of future teams running it? When I think of great offensive systems, I think of what Kingsbury is running at Texas Tech and what Sumlin is running at A&M and what Malzahn is running at Auburn and those systems were installed and effective almost immediately. Why do you need several years to make this one work? And what's the payoff? Cincinatti was no offensive juggernaut. They won as much with defense as anything else.
 
#92
#92
regarding the vanilla offense, I was listening to 104.5 the zone yesterday and they were discussing the Titan's loss. our defensive coordinator remarked that the best offenses are very boring and predictable. Those offenses are good because they execute and even though everyone in the stadium knows the plays they are running, the defense is hopeless stop them.
 
#93
#93
regarding the vanilla offense, I was listening to 104.5 the zone yesterday and they were discussing the Titan's loss. our defensive coordinator remarked that the best offenses are very boring and predictable. Those offenses are good because they execute and even though everyone in the stadium knows the plays they are running, the defense is hopeless stop them.

Yeah, they're talking about slow, run-it-right-at-you traditional offenses that move the chains and rarely ever go 3 and out. That's sort of the opposite of what we're running.
 
#94
#94
The two big North catches were great. Both were just "throw it up and hope your receiver comes down with it". They weren't emblematic of any kind of system. If those are all we can rely on to make big plays, then you could be running any kind of system.

Your logic, "If you don't count the explosive plays, this system is not explosive."

Yeah, this is what I don't get at all. If the system doesn't take advantage of the players you have now, why install it? Because you think you might have different players in a few years? Then why aren't you recruiting a QB, since that seems to be the glaring thing missing and the crucial piece to running this system?

It is an irrefutable fact: Every College Football team will have different players in the future.

CBJ has two Elite-11 QBs on his roster that fit his system. His system only plays one QB at a time. It plays linemen, WRs, TEs, DEs, CBs, LBs, etc... He has to use the limited number of scholarships to fill the most pressing needs.

And why does this system take so long to install anyway? Why do you have to start installing it in hopes of future teams running it?

Because it's his system, and future teams will be running it. It makes absolutely NO sense to invest the time/energy/disappointments of installing system [A] (with little assurance these players will win in that system anyway), knowing you will have to reinvest that same time/energy/disappointment in system two years from now.

When I think of great offensive systems, I think of what Kingsbury is running at Texas Tech and what Sumlin is running at A&M and what Malzahn is running at Auburn and those systems were installed and effective almost immediately. Why do you need several years to make this one work? And what's the payoff? Cincinatti was no offensive juggernaut. They won as much with defense as anything else.

Those systems are very, very similar to the one that we are implementing. So, in effect, your question is: "Why is CBJ implementing a great system here?"

Those schools already had the players needed to run that system. I guarantee you, if they hadn't, the staffs still would have implemented their system and took their lumps until they did have the players to run it.
 
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#95
#95
Those schools already had the players needed to run that system. I guarantee you, if they hadn't, the staffs still would have implemented their system and took their lumps until they did have the players to run it.

Then again, Malzahn didn't hesitate to grab a juco QB late this summer. But in general, Auburn's talent level is higher than UT's and in fact is the third highest in the conference, per Rivals.
 
#96
#96
Then again, Malzahn didn't hesitate to grab a juco QB late this summer. But in general, Auburn's talent level is higher than UT's and in fact is the third highest in the conference, per Rivals.

True.

CBJ didn't hesitate to take two Elite-11 QBs that fit his system. :)

And Auburn is very talented. Chizik did not leave them talent-broke. Malzahn is not implementing the system. He was their OC a couple of years ago, and UA went to the championship game with this very system.

Speaking of their system. It is VERY explosive. They put up over 20 points in one half against Bama not long ago. It's probably fairly indicative of what we will look like with play makers.
 
#97
#97
Your logic, "If you don't count the explosive plays, this system is not explosive."

There's a phrase called "the exception that proves the rule." It's been around for a long time. You might want to look it up and learn what it means.

It is an irrefutable fact: Every College Football team will have different players in the future.

CBJ has two Elite-11 QBs on his roster that fit his system. His system only plays one QB at a time. It plays linemen, WRs, TEs, DEs, CBs, LBs, etc... He has to use the limited number of scholarships to fill the most pressing needs.

Wait, we have 2 elite QBs on our roster that fit this system? Then why aren't they playing? Why on earth did he start Peterman at the Swamp if he had these guys and they were so good?



Because it's his system, and future teams will be running it. It makes absolutely NO sense to invest the time/energy/disappointments of installing system [A] (with little assurance these players will win in that system anyway), knowing you will have to reinvest that same time/energy/disappointment in system two years from now.


You do realize that every coaches' system changes year to year with their personnel right? Sometimes it changes in the middle of a year when a pocket QB goes down and you have a more mobile guy come in (or vice versa). That's happened plenty of times. You're saying Jones' system is uniquely rigid and complex that it can't be altered for personnel? That you have to keep running QB option plays with a QB that can barely (and hardly ever does) run, simply so you can run them next year?


Those systems are very, very similar to the one that we are implementing. So, in effect, your question is: "Why is CBJ implementing a great system here?"

I wish I could believe this. But those systems always seem to take advantage of the passing game and use alot of different routes and throw the ball around alot. Sumlin and Kingsbury and Malzahn have put up huge offensive numbers everywhere they have been and with all kinds of players. Jones didn't put up those kinds of numbers at Cincinatti.

Our system seems more like Rich Rodriguez and Urban Meyer's gimmicky option stuff and both of those have questionable success in major conference play without a super QB who is very good at running.

Those schools already had the players needed to run that system. I guarantee you, if they hadn't, the staffs still would have implemented their system and took their lumps until they did have the players to run it.

It seems rather like sophistry to declare "well, since they are successful, they already had the players to run it." But, Sumlin and Malzahn have each taken over a number of programs and had offensive success right out of the gate. It's kind of convenient that all of those programs just happened to have just the right players for them each time. They clearly adjusted their systems to get the most out of their personnel.
 
#98
#98
My only issues with the offense is our blocking scheme seemed strange against clowney at times, and we had success running vertical and we would get away from that.

We don't have speed, except howard, to burn teams on the edge.

Worley struggles to give his receivers a chance to make a play and was inaccurate after his hand hit the helmet.

You can't judge a ne offense based on the first year. It takes a long time to be implemented and get the players you need.


Actually he was more accurate... See one handed catch, North.
 
#99
#99
There's a phrase called "the exception that proves the rule." It's been around for a long time. You might want to look it up and learn what it means.

I'm not trying to be a smart-***. If you want to take it there, we can just part ways now and no hard feelings.

You listed two plays in one game. I can point to many more plays this year. It doesn't seem like "exception". It seems more like improvement.

If you want to see what CBJ's system is capable of, you can see it fully implemented at UC. It was explosive there, too.

Wait, we have 2 elite QBs on our roster that fit this system? Then why aren't they playing? Why on earth did he start Peterman at the Swamp if he had these guys and they were so good?

They are true freshmen. Obviously, they are not ready to play and don't give us the best chance to win at this time.

Again, I'm not trying to be a smart-***, but I have to ask... Do you really not understand this? If not, I'll leave the discussion to you and move along. Seriously. I don't think you're dumb. If you won't admit this much, you're arguing for the sake of argument.

You do realize that every coaches' system changes year to year with their personnel right? Sometimes it changes in the middle of a year when a pocket QB goes down and you have a more mobile guy come in (or vice versa). That's happened plenty of times. You're saying Jones' system is uniquely rigid and complex that it can't be altered for personnel? That you have to keep running QB option plays with a QB that can barely (and hardly ever does) run, simply so you can run them next year?

No coach that I know of changes their system completely. They may change the amount that they call certain plays within their system, but I promise you they do not change their system.

I think CBJ and staff are actually doing that. They've said that they are only calling the plays that the team are executing well in practice. They've said that's what they are doing.


But a "system" entails blocking philosophy, etc... And blocking philosophies, etc... generally cater to the system as a whole. You won't generally see a staff change that up "in the middle of the season".

You saw CBJ change his emphasis successfully when he had a more pure passing QB than he did when he had a dual threat. He never changed his "system", but he changed his playcalling and succeeded.


I wish I could believe this. But those systems always seem to take advantage of the passing game and use alot of different routes and throw the ball around alot. Sumlin and Kingsbury and Malzahn have put up huge offensive numbers everywhere they have been and with all kinds of players. Jones didn't put up those kinds of numbers at Cincinatti.

Jones has always been run-first, just as Malzahn is. He has always also had a very successful passing attack.

At UT this year, we've had Worley, Peterman and freshmen receivers. You sure you want him to throw it around and forego the run?

Our system seems more like Rich Rodriguez and Urban Meyer's gimmicky option stuff and both of those have questionable success in major conference play without a super QB who is very good at running.

OK. I understand you better. I'll leave it at that.

It seems rather like sophistry to declare "well, since they are successful, they already had the players to run it." But, Sumlin and Malzahn have each taken over a number of programs and had offensive success right out of the gate. It's kind of convenient that all of those programs just happened to have just the right players for them each time. They clearly adjusted their systems to get the most out of their personnel.

It seems more like sophistry to claim that Malzahn is implementing his system this year, after recruiting to it and winning a MNC with it, at Auburn, as the OC.

[Edit:] Would you consider something that is self-evident to be sophistry? I propose that:


[*]A system is implemented.

[*]There is success in that system.

[*]There are players to succeed in that system.

:hi:
 
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It's also worthy of note that Sumlin was expecting to take his lumps last year, but installed his system anyway. Johnny Football struggled mightily in practice before the season last year, and they were going into the season with question marks. What did he do? He installed his system and Johnny Football stepped up.

Jones installed his system this year. It has taken a while for the players to step up.

With the roster we have, our record would be exactly as good/bad as it is (or worse) with pretty much any system implemented. It is a useless discussion.
 
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