2017 Recruiting Class & Early Enrollees

#26
#26
junder13 said:
Ha, I hear this line all the time on here. Good grief. I don't just accept someone's ability or skill or opinion in anything in life, no matter what their reputation or track record says. I evaluate everything from an objective lense (as objective as my subjective mind can be, at least) and form my own opinion. I could give a **** if Butch Jones wins the recruiting championship 10 years in a row. If that eleventh class has 3 composite four stars and 14 composite three stars eight months before NSD, and about 20-30 top 250 players have stated publicly that UT is a major consideration for their signature, I'm going to question that coaches recruiting strategy. And I will always question a recruiting strategy that involves backing out of commitments with players for reasons outside of grades, discipline problems, or athletic apathy simply because another higher rated player wants on board at a later date. If that could be the case, don't publicly accept the player's commitment who is lower on your board so early in the recruiting cycle. A majority of others seem to feel differently, that is fine.

But Jones' recruiting track record does not make him above question and reproach, and it never will (at least in my eyes as a fan and independent thinker).
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Unless you're familiar with the inner workings of the recruiting process, I don't know what you're getting your panties in such a wad over. You complain about having so many three stars commit then get upset about CBJ accepting a higher rated prospect's commitment over their's. Which is it? Would you rather him not accept these current commitments year in and year out, leading to the possibility of us having to scrape together a class in the waning moments of the recruiting process if everything doesn't work out?
 
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#27
#27
junder13 said:
Ha, I hear this line all the time on here. Good grief. I don't just accept someone's ability or skill or opinion in anything in life, no matter what their reputation or track record says. I evaluate everything from an objective lense (as objective as my subjective mind can be, at least) and form my own opinion. I could give a **** if Butch Jones wins the recruiting championship 10 years in a row. If that eleventh class has 3 composite four stars and 14 composite three stars eight months before NSD, and about 20-30 top 250 players have stated publicly that UT is a major consideration for their signature, I'm going to question that coaches recruiting strategy. And I will always question a recruiting strategy that involves backing out of commitments with players for reasons outside of grades, discipline problems, or athletic apathy simply because another higher rated player wants on board at a later date. If that could be the case, don't publicly accept the player's commitment who is lower on your board so early in the recruiting cycle. A majority of others seem to feel differently, that is fine.

But Jones' recruiting track record does not make him above question and reproach, and it never will (at least in my eyes as a fan and independent thinker).
Click to expand...

If these kids had already played their Senior year of football i would see your arguement but at this point it is a waste of key strokes. What is so hard to understand this is a fluid situation? At this point you sign potential and continually evaluate through the season. Its not hard to understand unless you are a simple star gazer and are inclined to complain.
 
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#28
#28
junder13 said:
Ha, I hear this line all the time on here. Good grief. I don't just accept someone's ability or skill or opinion in anything in life, no matter what their reputation or track record says. I evaluate everything from an objective lense (as objective as my subjective mind can be, at least) and form my own opinion. I could give a **** if Butch Jones wins the recruiting championship 10 years in a row. If that eleventh class has 3 composite four stars and 14 composite three stars eight months before NSD, and about 20-30 top 250 players have stated publicly that UT is a major consideration for their signature, I'm going to question that coaches recruiting strategy. And I will always question a recruiting strategy that involves backing out of commitments with players for reasons outside of grades, discipline problems, or athletic apathy simply because another higher rated player wants on board at a later date. If that could be the case, don't publicly accept the player's commitment who is lower on your board so early in the recruiting cycle. A majority of others seem to feel differently, that is fine.

But Jones' recruiting track record does not make him above question and reproach, and it never will (at least in my eyes as a fan and independent thinker).
Click to expand...

Did you just skip where I said a lot of the time coaches know what schools a lot of players will go to? If that was the case schools like bama and OSU would sign 10-15 5*'s and the rest 4*'s every single year!


You can't just have a class of 8 lower rated players in janurary and hope all those high rated players will pick you. Half these guys that committed won't be apart of our class lol.

It doesn't matter if Butch cuts them either, ya know why? Recruiting is a bussiness, not to mention those players do the same stuff. Vonn Bell day before NSD: "Tennessee is my leader" *signs with osu*
 
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#29
#29
Not to mention Butch doesn't care about * ratings lol. We all know AT LEAST Henderson, Fant, Labruzza, Bumphus, Jackson, Membry are all high on the board.
 
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#30
#30
junder13 said:
Ha, I hear this line all the time on here. Good grief. I don't just accept someone's ability or skill or opinion in anything in life, no matter what their reputation or track record says. I evaluate everything from an objective lense (as objective as my subjective mind can be, at least) and form my own opinion. I could give a **** if Butch Jones wins the recruiting championship 10 years in a row. If that eleventh class has 3 composite four stars and 14 composite three stars eight months before NSD, and about 20-30 top 250 players have stated publicly that UT is a major consideration for their signature, I'm going to question that coaches recruiting strategy. And I will always question a recruiting strategy that involves backing out of commitments with players for reasons outside of grades, discipline problems, or athletic apathy simply because another higher rated player wants on board at a later date. If that could be the case, don't publicly accept the player's commitment who is lower on your board so early in the recruiting cycle. A majority of others seem to feel differently, that is fine.

But Jones' recruiting track record does not make him above question and reproach, and it never will (at least in my eyes as a fan and independent thinker).
Click to expand...

Yer so smart ... run fer mayor.
 
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#31
#31
Lol. This has gotten to stupidity levels. It's June. 4 of our three stars will be 4 stars. Plus, the remaining spots will almost certainly be reserved for 4 stars and a 5 star. At the end of the day, we have 10 or 11 3 stars max which is pretty normal for most top 10 classes. Get your panties out of a twist. Top 10 class at the end of the day, why doubt? Its not being a sheep to Butch, but hes always come through in recruiting. Even last year, 14th class with limited spots was pretty damn solid. It'll be fine unless we just stink it up this upcoming season.
 
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#32
#32
junder13 said:
Below is a breakdown of our current 17 commitments: six on offense, ten on defense, and one on special teams. Three of our current commits are composite four stars on 247 (Gray, Crosby, Nixon), the remaining 14 are composite three stars.

Offense - 6 commits, 4 estimated remaining spots

QB -
RB - Trey Coleman (875)
WR - KD Nixon (290), Princeton Fant (525), Jacquez Jones (819)
TE - Chase Rogers (832)
OL - Jordan Tucker (676)

Defense - 10 commits, 2 estimated spots remaining

DE - LaTrell Bumphus (438), Tre Lawson (537), Marquez Bembry (614)
DT - Eric Crosby (193)
LB - Jaquan Henderson (402), Solon Page (882), Mo Burnam (884)
CB - Cheyenne Labruzza (437)
NB - Maleik Gray (59)
S - Theo Jackson (385)

Special Teams - 1 commit, 0 estimated remaining spots

K - Brent Cimaglia

Using the best case scenario of taking 25 signees in the 2017 class -- a prospect I previously never thought possible based on the number of current scholarship players we have, rising seniors this season, and anticipated juniors who may leave for the NFL early -- we would have eight spots left for our 2017 class.

Now consider who were are still in on with what we have been led to believe is a realistic chance of landing. I listed the players that I am familiar with based on this forum. I added gray font to any player whose composite rating is below the highest rated current commit at his position.

QB - Jack Sears (205), Ty Brock (733)
RB - Cam Akers (16), Ty Chandler (111), Devan Barrett (247), Damon Williams (412), Chase Hayden (427)
WR - Tee Higgins (15), Jerry Jeudy (44), Jaylen Harris (167), Jeremiah Holloman (220)
TE - Tre McKitty (450)
OT - Jedrick Wills (36), Trey Smith (48), Andrew Thomas (49), Chuck Filiaga (93), Tony Gray (127), Kendall Randolph (174), Obinna Eze (212), TJ Moore (226), Adrian Ealy (249), Riley Locklear (642)
OG - Nick Brahms (153), Billy Ross (362), Jalen McKenzie (439)

DE - Robert Beal (30), Jordan Williams (183), Zachary Carter (97), Malik Herring (99), LaBryan Ray (102), Ryan Johnson (187), Markaviest Bryant (194), MJ Webb (240), Michael Allen (359), Elijah Conliffe (441)
DT - Fred Hansard (165), Breyon Gaddy (275), Donovan Jeter (278), Kivon Bennett (452), Brandon Gaddy, Malik Young (JUCO)
LB - Justin Foster (79), Tyler Taylor (227), Marchiol (269), Kenney Britt (313)
CB - Deangelo Gibbs (34), Jamyest Williams (52), Lamont Wade (53), Amir Riep (115), Yusuf Corker (315), TJ Carter (466), Gentry Bonds (648)
S - JaCoby Stevens (24), Devon Hunter (58), Derek Pitts (435)

It would appear that many of the fans celebrating today's string of seven 2017 commitments are not familiar with the principle of "opportunity cost", or they were too busy "booming" from a cascade of composite three star commits to realize our 2017 class just crossed the 2/3 full mark with only have three composite four star commits.

Granted, Jones has a history of dropping lower rated kids at the 11th hour right before NSD, and that may happen again. But that strategy may eventually make the "family atmosphere" at UT look very superficial. It's also likely to lead to media scrutiny and negative press. I realize the VN circus of follow-the-leader, Jonestown Kool-Aid drinker fans will pass off the possibility of dropping lower rated kids before NSD as the nature of the business, as well as claim that these lower rated prospects are destined to shoot up the rankings once their undiscovered tape gets out. But we have too many big-time prospects left on our board to take on so many diamonds-in-the-rough, nor should we still be relying on a strategy of pump (in spring/summer) and dump (in Jan./Feb.) at this point in Butch's tenure. It was *perhaps* more understandable the first few years as we were pulling ourselves and our roster from the depths of Dooley despair, but we should be past that strategy now.

We currently have a top 10 roster of talent. But this current 2017 class is not reloading that same skill level of talent based on current commits rankings. The uncommitted prospects giving us a serious look, however, would more closely reflect a comparable level of talent -- thus the rub I have with our string of commits today.

Fire away (Butch)Jonestown sheeple lapdog ballsniffers.
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:lolabove::lolabove::crazy: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.gstatic.com/tv/thumb/movieposters/90510/p90510_p_v8_aa.jpg&imgrefurl=http://google.com/search%3Ftbm%3Disch%26q%3DChicken%2520Little&h=1440&w=960&tbnid=L3u5QCiGKySUmM:&tbnh=186&tbnw=124&docid=_UkVAabW7JWjCM&itg=1&usg=___NxjVxriBShRFJLNEeg3KybrPsE=
 
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#33
#33
Butch is playing the recruiting game here the same way he always has here and at Cincy. It is the way it has to be played and you and LEB/CRUNCH can't handle it.

You can't wait till January and end up empty handed or you will kill a program. You take some guys that you may have to drop for more talented guys later.

Don't talk about Bama and OSU. We are not where we can pick and choose who we want and normally get those highly rated players early. Our team has sucked the last decade and Jones does not have Saban or Meyer's resumes yet.

If 2016 and 17 produce championship type seasons, then we might be close to doing that for those classes. At least the guys we are competing for players are now top programs like LSU, FSU, and OSU ECT. If you want to make cute with a reference of Jim Jones and Jamestown and Kool Aid and death and compare it with what the Tennessee program is presently doing, that is fine. However, it show an ignorance to the difference our Jones and staff have done to turn what was a horrible program around that was having trouble winning any conference games.

Take the early commits and drop who you have to and build a top program. See how OSU has dropped a four star RB this week. I am ok if we can one say do that. Big time college football has changed. You don't have to like it but Jones better embrace it if Tennessee is going to be a top 10 program year in and year out.
 
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#34
#34
Everyone can keep comparing our recruiting to Bama or OSU until your blue in the face but the hard truth is we are not Bama or OSU, not at this point and time. This is a pivotal year for our program long term that has the potential to spring us into the CFB elites for years to come. We won't recruit like the elites until we are there, but we have to win first.
 
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#35
#35
Since none of us are involved in the conversations between Butch and a player wanting to commit, it's impossible for us to know exactly what a lower rated player is expecting at the time of their commitment. I could be missing some, but I don't recall a recruit or his family trashing UT or the staff for the way they handled the recruiting process. It's possible they are told the possibility of being recruited over and understand it when it happens. Not saying they are happy, as they wanted to be a vol, but understood it could happen.
 
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#36
#36
Big151Orange said:
Since none of us are involved in the conversations between Butch and a player wanting to commit, it's impossible for us to know exactly what a lower rated player is expecting at the time of their commitment. I could be missing some, but I don't recall a recruit or his family trashing UT or the staff for the way they handled the recruiting process. It's possible they are told the possibility of being recruited over and understand it when it happens. Not saying they are happy, as they wanted to be a vol, but understood it could happen.
Click to expand...

Agreed........nothing sinister here. Just the way it is played. But, I do think the recruits know about it.
 
#37
#37
I'm sure the situation is mutually agreed upon, we may recruit over you but you get the exposure of being a SEC commit and if you ball out your senior year you will either have us fighting to keep you or you will have plenty of offers. Its a process and they know that.
 
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#38
#38
I'm not thrilled with cutting lower ranked players loose as better ones want to commit, but as long as we do it with class and respect, and we do what's best for the kids, I guess I'm ok with it. Better they go to a smaller school rather than stand on the sidelines as Vols. I'd rather us make the decisions than leave them out there.

I guess we'll do even more of it this year, with us already having 17 recruits... (side question: how many 'ships do we have this year?)

It was important to get guys like Jackson, Fant, Bumphus; the in-state kids, we always wanna strengthen ties in that part of the state. And in this case those kids are among the most talented of Saturday's commits.

Guys like Jones, Burnam, Rogers?,.. I'm not sure we should hang on to those guys
much longer. Let them move on to schools where they have a better chance to thrive.
 
#39
#39
I thought about how quickly our coaches appear to be trying to fill up our signing class and it is a reoccurring pattern every year. It dawned on me that this is a strategy of Jones and staff. I suspect the idea is to fill up the core of the class before the season starts so as to not have unnecessary distractions during the season. Some of the more elite players who tend to wait until NSD can then be more of the focus, as well as on-the-field results (we need to see them). The staff will also choose to make "upgrades" as some of these more elite players reveal their intentions (publicly or privately). I would hope that any and all "dropped" players would get dropped before January (I'll leave my opinion on this at that one statement for this post).

Anyway, turning back to the class, here's how I see it developing:

Offense - 6 commits / Defense - 11 commits / Special Teams - 1 commit

QB -
RB - Trey Coleman (875)
WR - KD Nixon (290), Princeton Fant (525), Jacquez Jones (819)
TE - Chase Rogers (832)
OL - Jordan Tucker (676)

DE - LaTrell Bumphus (438), Tre Lawson (537), Marquez Bembry (614)
DT - Eric Crosby (193), Kivon Bennett (452)
LB - Jaquan Henderson (402), Solon Page (882), Mo Burnam (884)
CB - Cheyenne Labruzza (437)
NB - Maleik Gray (59)
S - Theo Jackson (385)

K - Brent Cimaglia

I could see a scenario where we might ask our kicker to blue/gray shirt. He's an instate recruit with good grades and would likely not have to pay tuition his first year anyway. Plus, he'll likely be redshirted, assuming the Medley in the second half of last season shows up in 2016/2017 and not the dreadful version from the first half of the season.

So, if we have 25 spots for offense and defense (a number that is still hard to fathom, honestly) that would allow us to take a class that might look like this:

Offense - 12 total / Defense - 13 total

QB - 0/1
RB - 2/3 (depending on if we take a QB)
WR - 4
TE - 1
OL - 4

DE - 3
DT - 3
LB - 2/3
CB - 2
NB - 1
S - 1/2 (depends on whether Gibbs is destined for S or LB)

Here are the prospects that appear to be at the top of the board and that we have at least some probability of landing at this time:

QB Jack Sears (very low probability -- likely west coast)
RB Ty Chandler (high probability)
RB Cam Akers (medium probability due to CRG and playing time)
WR Tee Higgins (high probability)
WR Jeremiah Holloman (high probability)
OT Trey Smith (medium-to-high probability)
OT Jedrick Wills (low-to-medium probability -- UK, Bama, UT -- think we are more likely than most appear to believe)
OT/OG Riley Locklear (low-to-medium probability -- FSU or UT)
OG Billy Ross (medium probability)
DE Fred Hansard (medium probability -- we seem to lead after OCD)
LB Justin Foster (medium probability -- Clemson or UT)
CB Lamont Wade (low-to-medium probability -- PSU, OSU, UT)
S Derek Pitts (medium probability)
S JaCoby Stevens (very low probability at this point but since he's instate I'll include -- likely UGA or LSU)

The list of remaining targets (to the extent that I know) appears to be as follows:

QB - Jack Sears (205), Ty Brock (733)
RB - Cam Akers (16), Ty Chandler (111), Devan Barrett (247), Damon Williams (412), Chase Hayden (427), Darrian Felix (600)
WR - Tee Higgins (15), Jerry Jeudy (44), Jaylen Harris (167), Jeremiah Holloman (220)
TE - Tre McKitty (450)
OT - Jedrick Wills (36), Trey Smith (48), Andrew Thomas (49), Chuck Filiaga (93), Tony Gray (127), Kendall Randolph (174), Obinna Eze (212), TJ Moore (226), Adrian Ealy (249), Riley Locklear (642)
OG - Nick Brahms (153), Billy Ross (362), Jalen McKenzie (439)

DE - Robert Beal (30), Jordan Williams (183), Malik Herring (99), LaBryan Ray (102), Ryan Johnson (187), Markaviest Bryant (194), MJ Webb (240), Michael Allen (359), Elijah Conliffe (441)
DT - Fred Hansard (165), Breyon Gaddy (275), Donovan Jeter (278), Brandon Gaddy, Malik Young (JUCO)
LB - Justin Foster (79), Tyler Taylor (227), Kenney Britt (313)
CB - Deangelo Gibbs (34), Jamyest Williams (52), Lamont Wade (53), Amir Riep (115), Yusuf Corker (315), TJ Carter (466), Gentry Bonds (648)
S - JaCoby Stevens (24), Devon Hunter (58), Derek Pitts (435)

Some may be "upgrades", some may have a spot still unoccupied. I used red font for players that we appear to have passed on, are thought to have grade issues, or have indicated we are not in their top group of considerations at this time.
 
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#40
#40
For the record, here's the 2017 class I want (that's somewhat realistic):

Offense (11), Defense (14), Special Teams (1)

QB -
RB - Ty Chandler, Cam Akers, Darrian Felix
WR - Tee Higgins, Jeremiah Holloman, Princeton Fant, Jacquez Jones or a natural slot (perhaps Felix goes here)
TE - Chase Rogers
OL - Trey Smith, Obinna Eze, 2 of the 3: Jedrick Wills, Riley Locklear, Billy Ross

DE - LaTrell Bumphus, Marquez Bembry, x
(not sure who is realistic at the third spot -- J Williams, LaBryan Ryan, M Herring seem to favor Clemson, Bama, UGA, respectively)
DT - Fred Hansard, Kivon Bennett, Eric Crosby
(I wonder where JUCO Malik Young is on our board)
LB - Justin Foster, Jaquan Henderson, Solon Page
CB - Lamont Wade, Cheyenne Labruzza
NB - Maleik Gray
S - Theo Jackson, Derek Pitts
NB/S/LB - DeAngelo Gibbs

K - Brent Cimaglia

*I have one too many on offense and defense but I'm not sure who to remove so I left it as is...
 
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#41
#41
junder13 said:
Ha, I hear this line all the time on here. Good grief. I don't just accept someone's ability or skill or opinion in anything in life, no matter what their reputation or track record says. I evaluate everything from an objective lense (as objective as my subjective mind can be, at least) and form my own opinion. I could give a **** if Butch Jones wins the recruiting championship 10 years in a row. If that eleventh class has 3 composite four stars and 14 composite three stars eight months before NSD, and about 20-30 top 250 players have stated publicly that UT is a major consideration for their signature, I'm going to question that coaches recruiting strategy. And I will always question a recruiting strategy that involves backing out of commitments with players for reasons outside of grades, discipline problems, or athletic apathy simply because another higher rated player wants on board at a later date. If that could be the case, don't publicly accept the player's commitment who is lower on your board so early in the recruiting cycle. A majority of others seem to feel differently, that is fine.

But Jones' recruiting track record does not make him above question and reproach, and it never will (at least in my eyes as a fan and independent thinker).
Click to expand...

So you're saying that if he shows for 10 years he knows what he's doing and given one chance to complain you will most definitely do so on year 11? Because by making your statement publicly about the job he is doing is complaining about a proven coach. You call it what you want.
 
#42
#42
Let's say that 3 move to 4 stars and 2 move on. That gives us 6 4 stars and 9 three stars. That's a very realistic scenario.

What's the problem?
 
#45
#45
Smokey49 said:
So...it's only okay to speculate when you're theorizing our coaches are evil?
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Evil? No. Butch isn't evil. Just is ok with some recruiting tactics I'd like to see him get away from.

As for guessing who gets a bump in the rankings, I wait. Seems it's always less getting a bump than expected.
 
#46
#46
CrunchingTheVolz said:
Evil? No. Butch isn't evil. Just is ok with some recruiting tactics I'd like to see him get away from.

As for guessing who gets a bump in the rankings, I wait. Seems it's always less getting a bump than expected.
Click to expand...

Give me your numbers for 2017. Break it down for me how you see it.
 
#48
#48
CrunchingTheVolz said:
Want some of my numbers?
I see it as Butch took too many commitments on OCD from kids he will likely dump here shortly.
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Happens every year all around the country and will continue to happen. Stop acting like a guy getting recruited over is the end of the world for them. These arent 10 year old kids.
 
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#49
#49
CrunchingTheVolz said:
Want some of my numbers?
I see it as Butch took too many commitments on OCD from kids he will likely dump here shortly.
Click to expand...

Yep. I can see us getting 11 more commitments at least. It may be more of a wish list. Do we take more than 25 this class?

I always liked the numbers thread because no one knows and it was kinda entertaining.
 
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#50
#50
Mick said:
Yep. I can see us getting 11 more commitments at least. It may be more of a wish list. Do we take more than 25 this class?

I always liked the numbers thread because no one knows and it was kinda entertaining.
Click to expand...

25 seems like a reasonable expectation. I'd imagine we'll see at least another half dozen or so roster spots freed up.
 
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