2019 NFL Offseason Thread

#201
#201
zjcvols said:
What else are they supposed to do? He’s never had a good coach, never a consistent OL, never a good run game. If he played for an organization that hadn’t been an abject failure for 60 years he’d get a lot more love. He’s 4,000+ yards, 65% comepletion, 25-30 TD’s guarantee a year (and never misses a start). Theres like only 10 guys in the league who do that

BTW, despite that monster contract hit, they still went and spent plenty this offseason. Spent $90M on Flowers, $36M on Coleman, got Jesse James at TE. They still have like $10M in cap space after the draft too
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To me, it boils down to is he a top 5 QB? Since the answer is he may not even be top 8, he shouldn't be the highest paid.
 
#203
#203
zjcvols said:
That’s not how professional sports works lol.
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Are you sure pro sports "work" that way? IDK, I'm of the opinion that the Patriots are the professional sports team that "works" the best. They have one of the truly elite QB's, they are underpaying him, and they are always competitive because they invest in depth rather than big contracts. There have only been 4 QB's in the salary cap era to win a SB taking up 11%+ of their team's cap (Peyton x 2, Brady x 2, Eli, Young). Stafford is getting paid 16% this year.

NFL teams are paying quarterbacks way too much money and here's the proof
 
#204
#204
n_huffhines said:
Are you sure pro sports "work" that way? IDK, I'm of the opinion that the Patriots are the professional sports team that "works" the best. They have one of the truly elite QB's, they are underpaying him, and they are always competitive because they invest in depth rather than big contracts. There have only been 4 QB's in the salary cap era to win a SB taking up 11%+ of their team's cap (Peyton x 2, Brady x 2, Eli, Young). Stafford is getting paid 16% this year.

NFL teams are paying quarterbacks way too much money and here's the proof
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Brady first off is such an anomaly and has played for so long/married to a supermodel/tons of endorsement money that trying to use him as an example is so terrible. What I mean anyways is that sometimes the truly elite players don’t always make the most money.

And again you still haven’t told me exactly what else could Detroit have done. Let Stafford be a FA and try to draft a good QB again? Stafford has all the leverage. He was gonna get his money either way. Because I could give a whole list of times Detroit has tried that and has failed.

Either way, his contract isn’t hampering Detroit from making moves as evidenced by their FA signings this year. They signed Slay long term and anyone else they’ve wanted too.
 
#205
#205
zjcvols said:
Brady first off is such an anomaly and has played for so long/married to a supermodel/tons of endorsement money that trying to use him as an example is so terrible. What I mean anyways is that sometimes the truly elite players don’t always make the most money.

And again you still haven’t told me exactly what else could Detroit have done. Let Stafford be a FA and try to draft a good QB again? Stafford has all the leverage. He was gonna get his money either way. Because I could give a whole list of times Detroit has tried that and has failed.

Either way, his contract isn’t hampering Detroit from making moves as evidenced by their FA signings this year. They signed Slay long term and anyone else they’ve wanted too.
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Was somebody else even going to give him the biggest contract in the NFL? If so, I say you let him walk, hopefully to a rival.

I don't care to do the research and try to examine every move they could have tried, but suffice it to say, you can overpay to get a dozen quality guys for the money they are giving to Stafford. 7 of 12 playoff teams last year were led by a QB on a rookie contract. 7 of the top 10 highest paid QB's did not make the playoffs.
 
#206
#206
n_huffhines said:
Was somebody else even going to give him the biggest contract in the NFL? If so, I say you let him walk, hopefully to a rival.

I don't care to do the research and try to examine every move they could have tried, but suffice it to say, you can overpay to get a dozen quality guys for the money they are giving to Stafford. 7 of 12 playoff teams last year were led by a QB on a rookie contract. 7 of the top 10 highest paid QB's did not make the playoffs.
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So let’s say the Lions let Stafford walk after 2017 season like you are suggesting. You then would expect the Lions to draft a QB in the 2018 draft. They had the #20 pick....so basically you’re asking me if the Lions should pay Stafford big money or take Lamar Jackson at QB on a rookie contract. Or tank this year and draft Kyler Murray or Dwayne Haskins. I’ll take Stafford.
 
#207
#207
zjcvols said:
So let’s say the Lions let Stafford walk after 2017 season like you are suggesting. You then would expect the Lions to draft a QB in the 2018 draft. They had the #20 pick....so basically you’re asking me if the Lions should pay Stafford big money or take Lamar Jackson at QB on a rookie contract. Or tank this year and draft Kyler Murray or Dwayne Haskins. I’ll take Stafford.
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Consider they could have traded back 10 spots and ended up with Jackson and a #40 pick in this draft...a pick that could be traded for Josh Rosen right now. If one wins the job, the other is a tradable asset. Maybe neither one of them work out, you might be down for a year or two or you might totally fail, but at least you're playing the odds.
 
#208
#208
zjcvols said:
So let’s say the Lions let Stafford walk after 2017 season like you are suggesting. You then would expect the Lions to draft a QB in the 2018 draft. They had the #20 pick....so basically you’re asking me if the Lions should pay Stafford big money or take Lamar Jackson at QB on a rookie contract. Or tank this year and draft Kyler Murray or Dwayne Haskins. I’ll take Stafford.
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Z, you sound like Verc when you two were going back and forth about Barnes not being worth 5 million. You'd rather have the known, good solid QB/coach, than the unknown, who could be a Lamar Jackson or Donnie Tyndall. Jmo
 
#209
#209
Notorious B.E.N said:
Z, you sound like Verc when you two were going back and forth about Barnes not being worth 5 million. You'd rather have the known, good solid QB/coach, than the unknown, who could be a Lamar Jackson or Donnie Tyndall. Jmo
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I said I would rather keep Barnes instead of the alternative but still felt $5M for Barnes was ludicrous.
 
#210
#210
n_huffhines said:
Consider they could have traded back 10 spots and ended up with Jackson and a #40 pick in this draft...a pick that could be traded for Josh Rosen right now. If one wins the job, the other is a tradable asset. Maybe neither one of them work out, you might be down for a year or two or you might totally fail, but at least you're playing the odds.
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Have you seen how bad Rosen’s stats were last year? We still don’t know if Jackson is any good throwing the ball.
 
#211
#211
zjcvols said:
Have you seen how bad Rosen’s stats were last year? We still don’t know if Jackson is any good throwing the ball.
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I watched a lot of Rosen. He had the worst combination of OL, WR's, and TE's in the entire NFL. He had some throws that give you hope, that's for sure. We know about as much about Haskins as we do Rosen.

I don't like Lamar's sustainability, but I'm not sure winning is any less sustainable for him on a rookie contract than it is for Stafford as the highest paid.
 
#212
#212
n_huffhines said:
I watched a lot of Rosen. He had the worst combination of OL, WR's, and TE's in the entire NFL. He had some throws that give you hope, that's for sure. We know about as much about Haskins as we do Rosen.

I don't like Lamar's sustainability, but I'm not sure winning is any less sustainable for him on a rookie contract than it is for Stafford as the highest paid.
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I agree the Cardinals suck and too quick to start saying he’s a bust but still a lot of questions. He was the 4th QB taken in 2018.
 
#213
#213
zjcvols said:
I agree the Cardinals suck and too quick to start saying he’s a bust but still a lot of questions. He was the 4th QB taken in 2018.
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Lions may bust out a couple real good seasons and if so, great. That's at least break even on the contract, but personally, I just always want my team making choices towards a Super Bowl. It's a hard choice, especially for a franchise like the Lions who need a break from total failure, but that kind of fear of loss thinking is likely part of the franchise's problems.
 
#215
#215
For what it’s worth but in my humble opinion I think Murray has bust written all over him... bad coach with a bad team and they will expect him to come in and do way too much... it takes discipline to win championships and I just don’t think the HC will instill that... but kid has great talent just seems like a bad situation...
 
#216
#216
n_huffhines said:
Lions may bust out a couple real good seasons and if so, great. That's at least break even on the contract, but personally, I just always want my team making choices towards a Super Bowl. It's a hard choice, especially for a franchise like the Lions who need a break from total failure, but that kind of fear of loss thinking is likely part of the franchise's problems.
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I disagree. We know Stafford is better than some of the QB’s have made the Super Bowl this decade. The decision they made makes it more likely they make a Super Bowl in the next five years than that they don’t. If you miss on a QB after letting Stafford walk, you aren’t going anywhere for the next 3-5 years. So if they Stafford walk after 2017, draft Lamar Jackson, and he is a bust...you are done till 2022. With Stafford, you get the right coaching staff, or hit on some draft choices, or sign the right couple guys, you are right there.
 
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#217
#217
zjcvols said:
I disagree. We know Stafford is better than some of the QB’s have made the Super Bowl this decade. The decision they made makes it more likely they make a Super Bowl in the next five years than that they don’t. If you miss on a QB after letting Stafford walk, you aren’t going anywhere for the next 3-5 years. So if they Stafford walk after 2017, draft Lamar Jackson, and he is a bust...you are done till 2022. With Stafford, you get the right coaching staff, or hit on some draft choices, or sign the right couple guys, you are right there.
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That's precisely my point tho. You either need a bargain QB or an elite QB. Having a good, overpaid QB is not the best way to succeed. We've had 0 of those guys in the SB the last 7 years. Flacco was on a modest contract when he went. Ryan was on a modest contract when he went. Even Aaron Rodgers was on a modest contract when he went. I think Eli is the only good, overpaid QB to win a SB since maybe Aikman*?

*I'm not counting old game managers Peyton and Elway x2. They may have been overpaid, but I think they are a different category.
 
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#224
#224
Anybody going to the draft? I'm leaving Knoxville to head that way around lunchtime tomorrow. I've wanted to see the first round of the draft for about 20 years. Hopefully tomorrow will be my day!
 
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