2021 NFL Offseason Thread

#451
#451
The only time I would draft a guy like Barkley in the top 5 is if my team is already pretty stacked and RB is a need. Giants had so many problems at the time. Tackles, Ends, and QBs last 12+ years. Gotta think more long term when you're that bad.
 
#452
#452
n_huffhines said:
The only time I would draft a guy like Barkley in the top 5 is if my team is already pretty stacked and RB is a need. Giants had so many problems at the time. Tackles, Ends, and QBs last 12+ years. Gotta think more long term when you're that bad.
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If you are already stacked, you shouldn’t be in the top 5.
 
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#457
#457
Boston Vol said:
Didn’t really see this coming. I guess the Mac Jones era is still to begin.
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Warren Sharp was on a pod yesterday literally saying this will happen soon (but opined trade) and then it happened the next day, LOL. He was saying there is no way Cam is going be on the sidelines as a backup.
 
#462
#462
n_huffhines said:
I thought they offered him too much in 2019, TBH. He proved after that he was worth it but I would let him walk over this last contract. The goal is to win a SB. Let somebody else tie an anchor around their neck. I think Mahomes is the best QB I've ever seen and I doubt he'll win a SB once he starts making $40-$50m per year.

Here are what the SB QB's were making as a % of the salary cap in the last 10 years.

Foles = 2.4%
Eli = 11.6%
Flacco = 6.7%
Kaepernick = 0.8%
Wilson = 0.5%, 5.2%
Peyton = 14.2%, 12.2%
Cam = 9.1%
Matt Ryan = 15.2%
Goff = 4.3%
Jimmy G = 10.6%
Mahomes = 2.3%, 2.7%
Brady = 6.7%, 11.1%, 8.9%, 8.4%, 12.5%, 12.6%

Like I said, only a handful of QB's have won the SB making 12% of the cap (and I was wrong, Eli isn't one of them). It's hard to just make the SB commanding that much money and we got 3 guys in the $40m club who will be making 20% of their team's cap.

Think of all the good QB's making bank who didn't make a SB in the last 10 years (Big Ben, Philip Rivers, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Carson Palmer, Andrew Luck, Tony Romo). It's not a winning formula.
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Update:

Stafford = just under 11% of cap
Burrow = 5%
 
#464
#464
butchna said:
Update:

Who is the last game manager type to win one of these mother buggers?
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Foles, Peyton, and Flacco

But that's beside the point because there is a lot of wiggle room between "game manager" and a "QB earning over 12% of the salary cap" which is the point.
 
#465
#465
n_huffhines said:
Foles, Peyton, and Flacco

But that's beside the point because there is a lot of wiggle room between "game manager" and a "QB earning over 12% of the salary cap" which is the point.
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Flacco was a franchise QB…10+ years of frontline status and they needed every bit of it to reach that SB, much less WIN it. Foles outplayed any game manager status in those playoffs and replaced Wentz who was playing at a MVP pace before going down…and handsomely compensated. So you’re down to Peyton being carried by his defense…7 seasons ago. Going to come to a head when your recent theory hits reality. Stafford pulled $23 million down this season and Aaron Donald $22.5 million on the defensive side. Your unbending declaration that paying elite QBs their market value is dead in it’s tracks. It suffers from recentitis and lack of vetting.
 
#470
#470
butchna said:
Flacco was a franchise QB…10+ years of frontline status and they needed every bit of it to reach that SB, much less WIN it. Foles outplayed any game manager status in those playoffs and replaced Wentz who was playing at a MVP pace before going down…and handsomely compensated. So you’re down to Peyton being carried by his defense…7 seasons ago. Going to come to a head when your recent theory hits reality. Stafford pulled $23 million down this season and Aaron Donald $22.5 million on the defensive side. Your unbending declaration that paying elite QBs their market value is dead in it’s tracks. It suffers from recentitis and lack of vetting.
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You can be a franchise QB and a game manager. Mac Jones is a franchise QB and a pro bowler, but he played the role of game manager this year. Flacco never once finished top 6 in yards, TD's, or completion %. Not one time. He only finished top 10 like once. He's been conference offensive player of the week 3x in 14 years. He's never been to a pro bowl. Think about that. He certainly wasn't a star.

Foles is a game manager. He can't even land a permanent starting gig. Stop kidding yourself. Who would even argue that point? Probably just you...and Wentz was still on his rookie contract, but I guess you call that "handsome compensation"?

Yes, the D carried Peyton to SB victory. Obviously.

Don't move the goalposts and include Stafford. He falls under the 12% rule. He's not an exception. 8 QB's are making $30m+. 12 made more than him this year and you think Stafford at $23m isn't a bargain? You bring Aaron Donald into it when I never once argued that the best defensive player doesn't deserve 10% of the cap.

Your entire post is erroneous.
 
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#471
#471
BTW, the 12% rule is probably going to have to increase because QB's are making more now. When I first heard about the 12% rule, the top paid guys were barely surpassing it at 12 - 14%. Now we got guys who will be making close to 20%. Stafford being the 13th most paid at 11% tells you how much the pay scale has slid.
 
#472
#472
n_huffhines said:
You can be a franchise QB and a game manager. Mac Jones is a franchise QB and a pro bowler, but he played the role of game manager this year. Flacco never once finished top 6 in yards, TD's, or completion %. Not one time. He only finished top 10 like once. He's been conference offensive player of the week 3x in 14 years. He's never been to a pro bowl. Think about that. He certainly wasn't a star.

Foles is a game manager. He can't even land a permanent starting gig. Stop kidding yourself. Who would even argue that point? Probably just you...and Wentz was still on his rookie contract, but I guess you call that "handsome compensation"?

Yes, the D carried Peyton to SB victory. Obviously.

Don't move the goalposts and include Stafford. He falls under the 12% rule. He's not an exception. 8 QB's are making $30m+. 12 made more than him this year and you think Stafford at $23m isn't a bargain? You bring Aaron Donald into it when I never once argued that the best defensive player doesn't deserve 10% of the cap.

Your entire post is erroneous.
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I disagree. Your entire theory is unsustainable. The Rams are the worst in recent memory of sacrificing both present and future draft picks and winning now. The quarterbacks that keep bringing their teams to conference championship games are either already making top contracts or pending. The whole argument about “game managers” centers on your declaration long ago that spending most of your money elsewhere and then picking up a game manager is the practical way to build a Super Bowl team. Then every year an elite QB is hoisting that trophy. Rams don’t reach the SB without an elite QB…no matter the contrived percentage you allow them to be compensated. Mahomes ain’t done knocking on that door and neither is Rodgers. Now that Allen is above your artificial threshold, when Burrow makes bank it’s looking like Message Board Hell for future big games. I’m here for it. 😎
 
#473
#473
butchna said:
I disagree. Your entire theory is unsustainable. The Rams are the worst in recent memory of sacrificing both present and future draft picks and winning now. The quarterbacks that keep bringing their teams to conference championship games are either already making top contracts or pending. The whole argument about “game managers” centers on your declaration long ago that spending most of your money elsewhere and then picking up a game manager is the practical way to build a Super Bowl team. Then every year an elite QB is hoisting that trophy. Rams don’t reach the SB without an elite QB…no matter the contrived percentage you allow them to be compensated. Mahomes ain’t done knocking on that door and neither is Rodgers. Now that Allen is above your artificial threshold, when Burrow makes bank it’s looking like Message Board Hell for future big games. I’m here for it. 😎
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You're bringing other conversations into this, and getting those conversations wrong. Nobody is talking about draft picks ITT.

What does a pending top contract prove? Nothing in this conversation.

Stafford is not an elite QB and he wasn't being paid like an elite QB.

When a dozen (over 1/3 of starters) QB's make 12% of the salary cap, there is a good chance that one of them makes the SB. Mahomes will make the SB again. Is he going to make 4 CCG in a row again? I kinda doubt it.

Again, 17 of the last 22 SB QB's were making below 12%.
 
#474
#474
n_huffhines said:
You're bringing other conversations into this, and getting those conversations wrong. Nobody is talking about draft picks ITT.

What does a pending top contract prove? Nothing in this conversation.

Stafford is not an elite QB and he wasn't being paid like an elite QB.

When a dozen (over 1/3 of starters) QB's make 12% of the salary cap, there is a good chance that one of them makes the SB. Mahomes will make the SB again. Is he going to make 4 CCG in a row again? I kinda doubt it.

Again, 17 of the last 22 SB QB's were making below 12%.
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How many times are you counting the same QB…Tom Brady? Skews your science. And quarterbacks making this percentage is a very recent occurrence. Price of doing business will be the norm. Basic crux of my argument is that you need an elite quarterback (not a game manager) to reach and/or win a Super Bowl. A Burrow doing it in the second year of their rookie deal is going to be the exception. And they’ll have to beat quarterbacks making the top percentage. Stop counting back to Roger Staubach. He had to sell real estate in the off-season. 😉
 
#475
#475
butchna said:
How many times are you counting the same QB…Tom Brady? Skews your science. And quarterbacks making this percentage is a very recent occurrence. Price of doing business will be the norm. Basic crux of my argument is that you need an elite quarterback (not a game manager) to reach and/or win a Super Bowl. A Burrow doing it in the second year of their rookie deal is going to be the exception. And they’ll have to beat quarterbacks making the top percentage. Stop counting back to Roger Staubach. He had to sell real estate in the off-season. 😉
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You will literally say anything instead of just accepting a point.

Tom Brady does skew my numbers. He skews them in favor of paying over 12%. He went to the SB 5x in this time period and was paid 12% in two of those game. 2/5 > 5/22

I didn't count back to Staubach. 22 SB QB's = the last 11 years
 
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