4th down aggressiveness

[hUTch2002]

I’ve seen a recent trend where coaches are being overly aggressive on 4th down. I thought we did it twice yesterday. It turned out fine in our game obviously but if we take the early FG and then punt there at the end of the half we’re up 17 (3 scores) rather than 11 at the half. Instead of cutting it to 4 early in the second half they’d have never gotten closer than 10. Here are 3 examples in the last 2 weeks where being overly aggressive likely cost their team the game.

1. Arkansas went for it on 4th and 2 from the 50 yesterday against LSU with a backup QB and LSU’s offense doing absolutely nothing. At that point it was 6-3 LSU and that led to LSU’s only TD on the way to a 13-10 win. Arkansas should’ve punted and made LSU drive the field as the play call was bad too and lost more than 10 yards, setting up a short field.
2. Ole Miss had an early FG from the 12 and decided to go for 4th and 2 instead yesterday against Bama. They lost by 6 when they were down at the goal line there at the end. Take the early FG and you can kick a FG to go to OT.
3. Auburn passed on an early second half FG against Miss St last week when down 12 and instead went for 4th and 4. That game went to OT.

Of course we all saw how LSU being too aggressive on 4th down cost them against us. I get it a little more when it’s a yard or less but most of these calls aren’t. The same is happening when going for 2. Bama went 0/2 against LSU in 2-point tries in regulation and they lost by 1 in OT. It just seems to me that coaches, overall, are getting too cute and being too aggressive. It worked out fine for us yesterday but none of these other examples did and when we’re in the playoff those calls could be the difference between winning and losing. What says VN?

 

[Iam4utalways]

Sometimes you just have to roll the dice.

 

[CR-vol]

We can afford to be aggressive like that against most teams.

 

[hUTch2002]

Sometimes you just have to roll the dice.

I certainly agree with that and I’d certainly rather lose being aggressive than not but a lot of these decisions just didn’t make sense in the situation.

 

[HuntlandVolinColo]

Well, it's a whole lot easier to get 10 yards in 4 tries vs 3. Some will use the analytics word.

Bottom line if you are playing a high-powered offense or you have a poor defense then you need to try and stay on the field to score, 7 preferably. Also, if your PK sucks, then you have a tendency to go for it more often.

Of course, when you fail, you lose opportunities for FGs and create field position nightmares for your defense.

 

[wmcovol]

I thought it was a mistake by Arkansas to do it due to their situation at QB & how well their defense was playing.

Obviously looking back, you can second guess Heupel but how many drives have been extended by going for it? Tennessee was 17-24 on 4th downs this year so you gotta take the bad with the good.

 

[hUTch2002]

I thought it was a mistake by Arkansas to do it due to their situation at QB & how well their defense was playing.

Obviously looking back, you can second guess Heupel but how many drives have been extended by going for it? Tennessee was 17-24 on 4th downs this year so you gotta take the bad with the good.

Well put.

 

[davethevol]

I remember a few times when Butch did it, and it actually worked, it really pumped up the team and the fans. It can be a real momentum changer either way, and obviously there are so many factors at play with regards to field position/clock/score……. I think it helps chances having a really fast and powerful back that get that additional yard or so in those situations.

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

Don't come back with any bullets.

 

[Iam4utalways]

I certainly agree with that and I’d certainly rather lose being aggressive than not but a lot of these decisions just didn’t make sense in the situation.

Often times the matchups that are needed to win while being conservative just aren’t there. So cutting a corner to gain an edge is the way to get an extra possession or a few points here and there.

 

[Volador]

It for sure is a trend in College Football and the Pros. I think part of it amounts to the immense pressure on the HC and staff to win games. At any cost. Conservative (college) football is turning into Russian roulette. Will Punters become something of the past???

 

[TnVol!]

I'm not ever going to 2nd guess scorng 66 points on a jackwagon like drinknumnuts.

 

[Scot Harvath]

How spoiled are we? I told my wife yesterday during the game that this team has spoiled us so much. Being 69 years old I remember so many games in the past where we struggled to score in the red zone, rarely went for it on fourth down and had trouble completing a pass of more than 20 yards. Now we expect to have a chance to score from any point on the field. What an amazing turn around.
I used to get so depressed watching Steve Superior outsmart our coaching staff year after year with wide open and inventive offensive plays. Now it is us on the other side of things after many years in the land of irrelevancy. Enjoy the ride, don't nitpick and pray for Coach Heupel and his staff to continue to be successful here for a long time. GBO!

 

[adammav9]

How spoiled are we? I told my wife yesterday during the game that this team has spoiled us so much. Being 69 years old I remember so many games in the past where we struggled to score in the red zone, rarely went for it on fourth down and had trouble completing a pass of more than 20 yards. Now we expect to have a chance to score from any point on the field. What an amazing turn around.
I used to get so depressed watching Steve Superior outsmart our coaching staff year after year with wide open and inventive offensive plays. Now it is us on the other side of things after many years in the land of irrelevancy. Enjoy the ride, don't nitpick and pray for Coach Heupel and his staff to continue to be successful here for a long time. GBO!

Gave you a like for the comment and for the screen name alone. Big Brad Thor fan

 

[Scot Harvath]

Gave you a like for the comment and for the screen name alone. Big Brad Thor fan

I see you have great taste, lol. Old Tom Clancy fan here. Retired so I sarted reading novels again and started with the Jack Carr books with the James Reece character that inspired the Terminal List series starring Chris Pratt. Finished the 22 book series by Thor and thinking of checking out the Jack Reacher series. Any experience with Lee Child's Jack Reacher series.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

 

[Volprofch05]

I’ve seen a recent trend where coaches are being overly aggressive on 4th down. I thought we did it twice yesterday. It turned out fine in our game obviously but if we take the early FG and then punt there at the end of the half we’re up 17 (3 scores) rather than 11 at the half. Instead of cutting it to 4 early in the second half they’d have never gotten closer than 10. Here are 3 examples in the last 2 weeks where being overly aggressive likely cost their team the game.

1. Arkansas went for it on 4th and 2 from the 50 yesterday against LSU with a backup QB and LSU’s offense doing absolutely nothing. At that point it was 6-3 LSU and that led to LSU’s only TD on the way to a 13-10 win. Arkansas should’ve punted and made LSU drive the field as the play call was bad too and lost more than 10 yards, setting up a short field.
2. Ole Miss had an early FG from the 12 and decided to go for 4th and 2 instead yesterday against Bama. They lost by 6 when they were down at the goal line there at the end. Take the early FG and you can kick a FG to go to OT.
3. Auburn passed on an early second half FG against Miss St last week when down 12 and instead went for 4th and 4. That game went to OT.

Of course we all saw how LSU being too aggressive on 4th down cost them against us. I get it a little more when it’s a yard or less but most of these calls aren’t. The same is happening when going for 2. Bama went 0/2 against LSU in 2-point tries in regulation and they lost by 1 in OT. It just seems to me that coaches, overall, are getting too cute and being too aggressive. It worked out fine for us yesterday but none of these other examples did and when we’re in the playoff those calls could be the difference between winning and losing. What says VN?

We went for it on 4th at least 3 times in the first half, when we were at the 27, 37, and 33 yard lines. Those are all no-man’s land and would’ve been really long fgs. Odds of getting 2-4 yards by our offense are probably comparable better.

We were 1/3 on those and one led to a touchdown. The last one, even though we didn’t make it, was a good decision because there wasn’t much time left. We shouldn’t have given up the long run by the qb, and we would’ve been fine.

I’m fine with all of those decisions.

 

[hUTch2002]

We went for it on 4th at least 3 times in the first half, when we were at the 27, 37, and 33 yard lines. Those are all no-man’s land and would’ve been really long fgs. Odds of getting 2-4 yards by our offense are probably comparable better.

We were 1/3 on those and one led to a touchdown. The last one, even though we didn’t make it, was a good decision because there wasn’t much time left. We shouldn’t have given up the long run by the qb, and we would’ve been fine.

I’m fine with all of those decisions.

I thought the 27 would be a fairly easy FG and make it 10-0 early so I’d have taken the points. On the 37 with little time left should’ve been a punt to me. That way they have no shot at points. Obviously, Heupel is aggressive and I like that so with that comes some good decisions and some bad and even ones that are bad sometimes work out while some good ones don’t. If there’s a 50/50 call he will play aggressively every time. And with that I’m certainly good.

 

[hUTch2002]

I remember a few times when Butch did it, and it actually worked, it really pumped up the team and the fans. It can be a real momentum changer either way, and obviously there are so many factors at play with regards to field position/clock/score……. I think it helps chances having a really fast and powerful back that get that additional yard or so in those situations.

Our short yardage offense has been so much better this year. I love that our coaches adjust. We had no under center packages last year and this year we do it pretty frequently on 3rd and 4th and short. We are very blessed with this staff.

 

[hUTch2002]

How spoiled are we? I told my wife yesterday during the game that this team has spoiled us so much. Being 69 years old I remember so many games in the past where we struggled to score in the red zone, rarely went for it on fourth down and had trouble completing a pass of more than 20 yards. Now we expect to have a chance to score from any point on the field. What an amazing turn around.
I used to get so depressed watching Steve Superior outsmart our coaching staff year after year with wide open and inventive offensive plays. Now it is us on the other side of things after many years in the land of irrelevancy. Enjoy the ride, don't nitpick and pray for Coach Heupel and his staff to continue to be successful here for a long time. GBO!

It’s just a discussion point. I’m not spoiled at all as I’ve been a lifelong Falcons fan, Braves fan through the 80s, and UT the last 20 years. I’m enjoying every minute but the discussion is bigger than UT. Pittman’s decision against LSU was truly puzzling given the situation but it helped us so I’m glad he did it. I do love this staff though. Heck, I enjoyed last year immensely and we lost 6 games. It was such a breath of fresh air after Pruitt. Under Pruitt even our wins were hard to watch.

 

[volfeeva]

Going for it on 4th down has historically been based on a couple of things= where the ball is, and what is the distance to get a first down. Going for it if you're close to the goal line is seen as less risky,( you don't want to give opponents a short field to score if you don't make it ) and going for it on 4th and short is reasonable but not so much if it's 4th and 8. Some of the times we went for it yesterday, not sure they'd do it when we're playing a must win game where points are hard to come by. Coach looks brilliant when it works, second-guessed when it doesn't

 

[Zues1]

I've watched this progress over the last couple of years..Teams going for 4th on their side of the field early in the game. On long yardage. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. People call that aggressive play.
But if you mention going for two early in the game, (Mizzou should have) people respond with.. you're wrong, you don't go chasing points early in the game! Is that not being aggressive as well?

 

[VFL-82-JP]

I’ve seen a recent trend where coaches are being overly aggressive on 4th down. I thought we did it twice yesterday. It turned out fine in our game obviously but if we take the early FG and then punt there at the end of the half we’re up 17 (3 scores) rather than 11 at the half. Instead of cutting it to 4 early in the second half they’d have never gotten closer than 10. Here are 3 examples in the last 2 weeks where being overly aggressive likely cost their team the game.

1. Arkansas went for it on 4th and 2 from the 50 yesterday against LSU with a backup QB and LSU’s offense doing absolutely nothing. At that point it was 6-3 LSU and that led to LSU’s only TD on the way to a 13-10 win. Arkansas should’ve punted and made LSU drive the field as the play call was bad too and lost more than 10 yards, setting up a short field.
2. Ole Miss had an early FG from the 12 and decided to go for 4th and 2 instead yesterday against Bama. They lost by 6 when they were down at the goal line there at the end. Take the early FG and you can kick a FG to go to OT.
3. Auburn passed on an early second half FG against Miss St last week when down 12 and instead went for 4th and 4. That game went to OT.

Of course we all saw how LSU being too aggressive on 4th down cost them against us. I get it a little more when it’s a yard or less but most of these calls aren’t. The same is happening when going for 2. Bama went 0/2 against LSU in 2-point tries in regulation and they lost by 1 in OT. It just seems to me that coaches, overall, are getting too cute and being too aggressive. It worked out fine for us yesterday but none of these other examples did and when we’re in the playoff those calls could be the difference between winning and losing. What says VN?

All who have been taught how to perform risk assessments are going to get this at a glance.

When you live mostly in Column E, as our lads do 80% of the time, it is understandable if you take risks more often.

It simply can't hurt us as much as, say, an Arkansas.

So it's not really so much about sheer, bald aggressiveness as it is about proper risk management.

Go Vols!

 

[Scot Harvath]

It’s just a discussion point. I’m not spoiled at all as I’ve been a lifelong Falcons fan, Braves fan through the 80s, and UT the last 20 years. I’m enjoying every minute but the discussion is bigger than UT. Pittman’s decision against LSU was truly puzzling given the situation but it helped us so I’m glad he did it. I do love this staff though. Heck, I enjoyed last year immensely and we lost 6 games. It was such a breath of fresh air after Pruitt. Under Pruitt even our wins were hard to watch.

Wasn't directing at you, just general random thoughts. Every decision these coaches make have the potential to make them look good or bite them in the butt. Glad I don't have to make those decisions then defend them when they don't work out. Just glad to have a competent staff in charge. Have a Great day and GBO.

 

[hUTch2002]

I've watched this progress over the last couple of years..Teams going for 4th on their side of the field early in the game. On long yardage. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. People call that aggressive play.
But if you mention going for two early in the game, (Mizzou should have) people respond with.. you're wrong, you don't go chasing points early in the game! Is that not being aggressive as well?

Oh you are absolutely correct. That’s why I mentioned Bama against LSU. Bama kicks XPs rather than going for 2 and they win that game. They went 0/2 on 2-point conversion attempts in a game that went to OT. I grew up under the whole, “don’t go for two until you absolutely have to” mantra. Granted, today’s game is different but I still think that mantra applies. I see more teams mess up by not taking the XP than teams that work out because they converted 2 when it wasn’t absolutely needed. Now, I admit that could be confirmation bias as it’s purely anecdotal and of course the failure will stand out more. What I do think teams should do more aggressively is when they score a TD to go up 7 and an XP would make it 8 I think that’s a great spot to go for 2 because going up 9 makes it 2 scores but 7 vs 8 isn’t a massive difference. To me, that’s smart aggression but I never see teams do it.