A closer look at the pass D

#27
#27
sjt18 said:
I think I'm going to look at it like this. Any time UT can hold an opponent under its season average for scoring, I'm going to call it a win. They've done it against every opponent except UF and we all know the "luck" they experienced at the end to go with coverage that was too soft.

UT's pass D hasn't been good. However LSU was a better passing team than UF with much better WR's. UT improved statistically against them but also while stepping up a bit in competition. Their receivers weren't as open or as consistently open as UF's.

I'll take progress right now.
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Agreed. I also think that was the result of Banks understanding he NEEDED to pressure the QB more often with stunts and blitzes since it helps the DBs out more. I think he called that up way more vs LSU than he did FLA. At least it looked that way to me.
 
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#28
#28
BanditVol said:
We all know they give up a lot of yards. On the other hand, teams HAVE to pass against us, for two reasons. One, we score so much. Two, we are actually really good against the run (11th nationally). Let me add that's not just because teams don't try to run, we are 7th in yards per carry.

So we are 128th in passing yards allowed. That's not good.

But a closer look shows the following:

42nd in yards per attempt
41st in yards per completion
52nd in pass efficiency D

The last one of those is a lot more meaningful than the 128th in the country pass yards allowed which is definitely skewed by teams trying to keep up with our offense.

Let me make clear that I am not saying 52nd in the country is great, that's very mediocre. But it is a HELLUVA lot better than 128th! :p

As for by far the most important stat in defense, we are 22nd in the country in scoring defense. I know that's skewed a bit by Akron and Ball State but we also did play three ranked teams and every other team out there has also played multiple cupcakes, so I think it evens out.

Bottom line...on a closer look maybe the Pass D is not so awful as it seems at a quick glance.
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I'd really like to see Dee Williams worked in at CB. I think he gives us an athletic element we lack right now. And if that happens, maybe Charles moves back to Safety, where he looked good last year before getting hurt and then getting moved.
 
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#30
#30
This week they rushed the passer about the correct amount and got to the QB 4 times. DB's looked a lot better when the Dline took the air out of the bag. Any SEC QB will rip you if he has time.
 
#31
#31
BigOrangeTrain said:
You ca put lipstick on a pig but it’s still a pig. Go back and even watch our game against Ball State. They had WRs running open for large parts of the game. If they had a good QB, they would have scored more. We have made 2 mediocre QBs look great.

Look at Richardson. He threw for 453 yards 2 TDs against us. Wanna know how much he has thrown for in his last 2 games total? 306 yards and 3 TDs. And those teams were Missouri and Eastern Washington. Daniels had his best passing day in the SEC against us.

There is no other way to spin it. Our pass defense is terrible. OSU and Bama both score like we do, how are their pass defenses? Oh right they are in the top 15 nationally.
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We are 5-0 and ranked #6 in the country!
 
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#32
#32
We are always playing a soft zone. Until the scheme changes then it will continue to be bad
 
#33
#33
BigOrangeTrain said:
Anything to make our defense look better than it actually is I see.
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No, you don't see. Games are decided by points, not yards. Tennessee's scoring defense is ranked at 22nd. On average, we're giving up about 7 more points per game than Georgia. I'll acknowledge that our pass defense needs to improve, but our defense is more stingy than our pass defense stats would indicate.
 
#34
#34
BanditVol said:
We all know they give up a lot of yards. On the other hand, teams HAVE to pass against us, for two reasons. One, we score so much. Two, we are actually really good against the run (11th nationally). Let me add that's not just because teams don't try to run, we are 7th in yards per carry.
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The rushing numbers aren't a fluke either. Pitt's top RB just ran for treefiddy against VT. We've done better against running QBs too. But maybe we are "overfocusing" on stopping the run and leaving our secondary covering too much space?
 
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#36
#36
BigOrangeTrain said:
You ca put lipstick on a pig but it’s still a pig. Go back and even watch our game against Ball State. They had WRs running open for large parts of the game. If they had a good QB, they would have scored more. We have made 2 mediocre QBs look great.

Look at Richardson. He threw for 453 yards 2 TDs against us. Wanna know how much he has thrown for in his last 2 games total? 306 yards and 3 TDs. And those teams were Missouri and Eastern Washington. Daniels had his best passing day in the SEC against us.

There is no other way to spin it. Our pass defense is terrible. OSU and Bama both score like we do, how are their pass defenses? Oh right they are in the top 15 nationally.
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Our pass defense isn’t terrible unless you use one stat which is yards total which is skewed as stated above.

We face the second most pass attempts per game in the entire country yet rank top 50 in the numbers that matter as stated in the OP. And that doesn’t even consider our ability to get to the QB.

Are we great? No. Is it terrible? No. It’s above average compared to the rest of the country. You’re ignoring facts and logic.
 
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#37
#37
zjcvols said:
Our pass defense isn’t terrible unless you use one stat which is yards total which is skewed as stated above.

We face the second most pass attempts per game in the entire country yet rank top 50 in the numbers that matter as stated in the OP. And that doesn’t even consider our ability to get to the QB.

Are we great? No. Is it terrible? No. It’s above average compared to the rest of the country. You’re ignoring facts and logic.
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Pick and choose whatever numbers to fit your narrative. You can say they are skewed or whatever. Sorry but our pass defense is ranked 128th. 128th is terrible. Sorry that bothers you.
 
#38
#38
90 Vol said:
No, you don't see. Games are decided by points, not yards. Tennessee's scoring defense is ranked at 22nd. On average, we're giving up about 7 more points per game than Georgia. I'll acknowledge that our pass defense needs to improve, but our defense is more stingy than our pass defense stats would indicate.
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All I am saying is our pass defense is horrid. Run defense is good. Overall defense is decent.
 
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#39
#39
BigOrangeTrain said:
Pick and choose whatever numbers to fit your narrative. You can say they are skewed or whatever. Sorry but our pass defense is ranked 128th. 128th is terrible. Sorry that bothers you.
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People don’t use total yards. It’s a near pointless stat because it doesn’t provide any sort of context and also because yards doesn’t equate to points. Football people don’t use total yards anymore

There are better metrics than total yardage to showcase how good a team is

Intro to Football Analytics: Why Rate Stats are Better than Totals

You see Jayson Daniels throw for 300 yards and assume “wow that sucks” yet let’s look at it more in depth. He needed 45 attempts, which is 6.7 YPA, which is above average defensively. He had to throw so much because Tennessee was up 27-7 after the first drive in the third quarter and we held their backs to 20 yards rushing. He was sacked five times. Outside of that he had to run 11 times. So let’s say out of 55 potential drop backs (since I’d say half his runs were designed, maybe more) we gave up 300 yards passing, had five sacks and his longest run was 17. Longest completed pass was 23 yards. That’s pretty good!

For more context. Down 37-7, Daniels on his final two drives had 145 yards passing. So, please tell me if holding an SEC QB on the road to a 165 yards passing through 42 minutes and getting out to a 37-7 lead is good or not.

Also, you’re being a hypocrite. You’re saying I’m picking stats to fit my narrative. Well, you keep using just one stat to say we are terrible defending the pass despite having evidence of other numbers. Others in this thread are providing multiple stats and context to say “Hey here’s why that number may be skewed.” Can you provide any other stat other than yards allowed to show we have a bad pass defense? It’s like if you used batting average to judge a hitter or points per game to judge a NBA player. Well sure that can be helpful, but it’s pointless if I don’t get OBP or FG% to go with it.
 
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#40
#40
I am not sure I buy 52nd. I don't think anyone thinks we are 128th either.

Reasonably, we have a decent pass rush and a secondary that gets picked apart by Power 5 teams. Probably 70-100th range which isn't horrible but will never win a championship (though our offense is borderline unfathomably good, an elite RB away)
 
#41
#41
UT is currently 22nd in scoring D. That really is an amazing stat. Minus the unusual mayhem at the end of the UF game they'd be top 20. Interesting that USC and Clemson are actually lower than UT. tOSU who has played worse competition is 15.7 ppg vs 17.8 for UT.
 
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#42
#42
orangemadam said:
Against Bama expect this :
If Young plays full game - 395 yds passing
If Milroe plays full game - 245 yds passing.

I like my chances if Milroe starts.
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Idk Slovis had nearly 200 yards in a half vs us. Young (if he’s healthy) is a better qb with better personnel around him. Honestly it doesn’t matter if Bama stacks up yardage it’s all about whether we can get a turnover or big play sack. If we can limit Bama to FGs and get a turnover I think we can win. Gibbs is also special, I don’t even know how to describe him; you stop him you stop most of their offense.
 
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#46
#46
Powder and shot said:
Hard for the casual fan to see the performance during the game. They looked to be in good position last game most plays. Total yards stats don’t concern. Clearly last game the passing yardage was ineffective For LSU.
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And one can't continuously harangue the pass D unless counterbalancing with the rushing D, and the pace of the offense. Teams have had to pass to overcome their inability to run and to keep pace with our scoring.
 
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#47
#47
PEPPERJAX said:
Scoring defense is the most important statistic.
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I agree and I'm no expert but I think part of the reason our scoring defense ranks so much higher than our pass defense is that our pass defense is much better in the red zone than they are outside the redzone. Flowers is a liability in open space... but in the redzone he's made two of the best defensive plays we've seen this year. Banks has taken some heat this season for not calling plays aggressively, but because he hasn't called plays aggressively we haven't given up many TDs over 20 yards. It's a classic bend but don't break style defense... which I don't think is something Banks WANTS to do but he's realized it's something he NEEDS to do in order to keep opposing offenses out of the end zone.
 
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#48
#48
At 5-0, until and unless our defense gets smoked by some team and causes us to lose a game we should have won, I've got nothing bad to say about the D.
 
#49
#49
Total yards don't matter. Here are the stats we should pay attention to:
Wins: 5
Losses: 0
Total Points Allowed: 22nd
3rd Down percentage: T-32nd (.320 - not terrible but not great)
4th Down percentage: T-47th (.500 - not good but was better)

If other teams get more chances they get more yards. Fundamentally we want to keep them to the fewest points possible and get them off of the field on 3rd down so our O can do its thing.
 
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