a country on eggshells?

[CSpindizzy]

Why yes. Not a problem sir.

Well we've never been very good with keeping these Jewish commandments. Our elected leaders throughout our history have failed to do this so you could say the tradition continues. As for the Sabbath, after going to many college football games on a nice Fall Saturday, I can say very few "God fearing Christians" follow that commandment.

 

[Lexvol]

Well we've never been very good with keeping these Jewish commandments. Our elected leaders throughout our history have failed to do this so you could say the tradition continues. As for the Sabbath, after going to many college football games on a nice Fall Saturday, I can say very few "God fearing Christians" follow that commandment.

If everything is relative there is no right direction. Capitalism however does depend on a certain moral code........that is in shambles as well. That said, if you take away the left tablets, much our laws certainly mirror 5-9 on the left side pretty well, and any wise person would pay close attention to number 10.

The right direction is a very personal thing. For me it excludes any unnecessary function that limits individual liberty, and promotes individual responsibility in every possible instance.

 

[CSpindizzy]

You're right. It is a personal thing. Values are to be instilled by families. When government becomes the parent, as it has, then the whole concept of democracy ultimately fails.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

It's our inability to secure our borders that is going to bring this country down.

There is a contractor that works on a project I'm associated with that is using a bunch of Hondurans/Mexicans to do construction work that the IBEW would normally on average get paid $22.00/hr to do. These guys are probably making $10.00 if their lucky. Meanwhile, seems like the IBEW's top brass don't even seem to be pushing the Dems on securing the border. Amazing.

You know the country is screwed when the Dems, the Reps, and the leadership (not the rank and file members) of major unions are all turning a blind eye to the border.

Not only does that border invite more workers to suppress wages here in USA, but it also invites more people to use social services intended for Americans... oh, and there is that little thing about security we should be concerned about, also.

 

[Lexvol]

You're right. It is a personal thing. Values are to be instilled by families. When government becomes the parent, as it has, then the whole concept of democracy ultimately fails.

I could not agree more. I see no reversal for the trend in the near future, but am hopeful that one day the pendulum will once again swing away from the influence of the "counter culture".

 

[CSpindizzy]

There is a contractor that works on a project I'm associated with that is using a bunch of Hondurans/Mexicans to do construction work that the IBEW would normally on average get paid $22.00/hr to do. These guys are probably making $10.00 if their lucky. Meanwhile, seems like the IBEW's top brass don't even seem to be pushing the Dems on securing the border. Amazing.

You know the country is screwed when the Dems, the Reps, and the leadership (not the rank and file members) of major unions are all turning a blind eye to the border.

Not only does that border invite more workers to suppress wages here in USA, but it also invites more people to use social services intended for Americans... oh, and there is that little thing about security we should be concerned about, also.

Unions hold little power compared to the old days. And the Democratic Party is more inclined to support more migrant workers. Actually many unions have quietly been pushing for more visas and work programs because unions can use these guys to fill the ranks again. In what is now dying out, non English speaking workers make good union workers.

What's your connection to IBEW?

 

[U-T]

We can "win" right now! We wont, due to diplomacy, but is it worth it?

Win what? We won't win because we have the complete and utter wrong thought-process to dealing with Iraq and many of its problems from the top to the bottom of the political food-chain. From Republicans to Democrats.

Military might, UN support, and other problems are just a small part of the Iraq mess. We can't "win" Iraq right now nor could we because we are too far from the finish line to even consider it. We should worry about the small fights before we think about coming close to ending this war. Many in this country have already gotten tired of Iraq. As they sit back and hear less & less news on Iraq, the assumption is that Iraq is progressing nicely when in reality the country is still far from where we want it to be.

It is time this country take responsibility for our own actions. If we want to get OUT of Iraq as quickly as possible, we need some realistic options then take into account the area that we are trying to stabilize and leave. This idea that military might will get us out quicker has been plaguing this current Admin. for some time. They just don't get "it"

Are these other "super nations" or nuclear powered nations really going to start something if we finish OUR buisness in the Mid east?

I think it is obvious countries are running as far away from Iraq as possible. Not sure I can blame them either, we have many in this country who want to get as far away from it as well.

If the direction in Iraq stays the same line as it has been for some time, I can understand those wanting to never enter this battle.

 

[shastacles]

In all of the talk of "we're heading in the wrong direction" I see no definition of the "right direction". Can someone define what the 'right direction' is?

The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net


enjoy.

 

[TXA&M07]

Ok, I can see your point, but my rebutle is this. Put the f n political food chain crap behind and get it done. If we truly wanted our boys home instead of the destiny (inwhich we are certainly moving towards) of a long term police force that patrols daily and is encountered daily, and losses men daily, then "win" the damn thing. End it. Simply, put politics aside, public opinon aside, global opinon aside and drop the shells. Not strategic, few at a time, "military installations", but rather, where the bad guys are kind of shells. Drop them by the thousands, bringing a rain of fire down on all that oppose and support those that do. Move our boys out of the danger zone and send in the blitz. To hell with what France, England, Japan, or any of the UN think about it. It is time for America to start thinking about America rather than worrying about public opionon. People in this country starve to death on the streets and live off the government, are unemployed, and homeless. We drop bombs on Monday and food on Tuesday in countries much crappier than ours why people in College Station will freeze to death this winter. Thats in TEXAS for Pete's sake. Lets put aside what the rest of the world thinks for 10 seconds and realize, they really dont care about us. News flash to all you politicians, They dont like us either. Ive said that before in here but its worth repeating. Blitz those s0b's and whipe them off the map. And if you say, "well its about the oil, and its not that easy", I say bull crap. It is that easy. We have been more than accomodating to the rest of the planet. Ie: immigration, public services to the global community, red cross, military protection, arms races, trade, policing, disaster reliefe. It is time for US to put US first. Its time for change in perception that the public has about our role on the globe. If we are to "think" we are as bad as we "think" we are, we need to act it. Othewise, this weak hearted, uninformed generation will lead us down the path of destruction and we'll all be eating Korean food when we are 80. Unfortunately, the politicians that will run the country next dont subscribe to my line of thinking. Bush was close and atleast he got Saddam, but his hands are tied to a point too. The process sucks if you ask me. Drop em. :furious3: Let God sort em' out.

 

[CSpindizzy]

The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net


enjoy.

Cute. I hate to break this to you but if you notice how this has been amended and interpreted in many ways. Would you like to be more specific as to what is the wrong direction compared to this? Try getting 300 million people to define their interpretation of this document and you'll probably get that many interpretations.

 

[U-T]

Ok, I can see your point, but my rebutle is this. Put the f n political food chain crap behind and get it done. If we truly wanted our boys home instead of the destiny (inwhich we are certainly moving towards) of a long term police force that patrols daily and is encountered daily, and losses men daily, then "win" the damn thing. End it. Simply, put politics aside, public opinon aside, global opinon aside and drop the shells. Not strategic, few at a time, "military installations", but rather, where the bad guys are kind of shells. Drop them by the thousands, bringing a rain of fire down on all that oppose and support those that do. Move our boys out of the danger zone and send in the blitz. To hell with what France, England, Japan, or any of the UN think about it.

So, dropping some bombs could bring us home? How? Who are we bombing? Where? How often? We have enough problems identifying people in Iraq.

Just bombing Iraq and killing tens of thousands would not only cause a world stir with other countries and the Muslim nations, it would force (FORCE) the United States to triple (at least) the amount of men/women needed in Iraq and I can't even imagine the financial trouble that would occur.

That plan does not stop the current problems, it only makes things worse on a scale we have yet to see.

It is time for America to start thinking about America rather than worrying about public opionon.

Nobody in the world will ever get the impression that we think our others before ourselves. I promise.

Its time for change in perception that the public has about our role on the globe. If we are to "think" we are as bad as we "think" we are, we need to act it.

It is time to start thinking smart. Not worrying about perceptions around the world (good or bad).

 

[TXA&M07]

So, dropping some bombs could bring us home? How? Who are we bombing? Where? How often? We have enough problems identifying people in Iraq.

Just bombing Iraq and killing tens of thousands would not only cause a world stir with other countries and the Muslim nations, it would force (FORCE) the United States to triple (at least) the amount of men/women needed in Iraq and I can't even imagine the financial trouble that would occur.

That plan does not stop the current problems, it only makes things worse on a scale we have yet to see.

Nobody in the world will ever get the impression that we think our others before ourselves. I promise.


It is time to start thinking smart. Not worrying about perceptions around the world (good or bad).

in order:

point A: Yup, your right. It would take three times as many to haul out the oil/used military equipment/ and crates of unused food we have over there.

point B: I get it, we are self rightous in your eyes. I think I basically said that already though. But politically, we look around the corner and see if anyone is gonna tell on us before we act. Its almost a (well, as long as its ok with yall, could we try _____ fill in the blank). Pathetic if you ask me.

and Point C: I think Ive said that atleast a dozen times now but its cool. At least now I know you agree with me on that one.

I gotta go again, but we can continue tommorrow. See yall later, be safe, and have a good afternoon.:salute:

 

[U-T]

point A: Yup, your right. It would take three times as many to haul out the oil/used military equipment/ and crates of unused food we have over there.

Then you have an incorrect assumption of what sits in/around Iraq especially in use with the military personnel.

point B: I get it, we are self rightous in your eyes. I think I basically said that already though.

Nothing self-rightous about it. Just stating how others view and look at us. At times, I think this attitude suits us best. Other times, I think we could learn a little more humility. It balances out enough for me to be satisfied though.

 

[volinbham]

Nothing self-rightous about it. Just stating how others view and look at us. At times, I think this attitude suits us best. Other times, I think we could learn a little more humility. It balances out enough for me to be satisfied though.

I agree with this - in general, I don't care what others think about the U.S.; their actions often prove to be at odds with their words. The calls for us to stay out of other's business sound good in theory but more often then not these same critics are the beneficiaries.

On the otherhand, we have created a self-fulfilling prophecy whereby we have to get more and more involved to maintain (or attempt to) the precarious state of affairs. A lot of that is on us.

We could stand some self-reflection but not too hard of a look.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Unions hold little power compared to the old days. And the Democratic Party is more inclined to support more migrant workers. Actually many unions have quietly been pushing for more visas and work programs because unions can use these guys to fill the ranks again. In what is now dying out, non English speaking workers make good union workers.

What's your connection to IBEW?

I'm not in the union, but it never crossed my mind to think about the top brass wanting to fill up the ranks... interesting (yet disgusting and dishonorable) twist.

 

[justingroves]

I'm not in the union, but it never crossed my mind to think about the top brass wanting to fill up the ranks... interesting (yet disgusting and dishonorable) twist.

It makes perfectly good sense to do it that way. I don't agree with it at all though.

I've been around construction work my whole life and there are very few jobs that a worker can do that is worth 22 dollars an hour. The lead men maybe, but your average Joe construction worker doesn't make the company 22 dollars an hour, so why should he receive that as his pay?

I'm not talking about engineer and architects, I'm talking about Bob with a nail gun or Joe hanging sheetrock or Larry the plumber.

 

[CSpindizzy]

I was asking your connection to IBEW because my stepfather is a member. I remember going to a BBQ back in 92 and most of the attendees had on Perot buttons and stickers.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I'm not talking about engineer and architects, I'm talking about Bob with a nail gun or Joe hanging sheetrock or Larry the plumber.

I'm not talking about that kind of construction work. You're right, hanging sheetrock or laying down tile isn't $22/hr labor.

Mainly talking about linemen/electricians in powerhouses and substations.

 

[superdave1984]

I'm not talking about that kind of construction work. You're right, hanging sheetrock or laying down tile isn't $22/hr labor.

Mainly talking about linemen/electricians in powerhouses and substations.

I agree about the sheetrock guys, but flooring guys , if working independantly, make on average more than that. I did it for 20 years and got paid by the job. It averaged out to somewhere around $25/hr. Some days more, some less depending on the job itself. Union not needed, just experience and the skills to do the job right the first time.

 

[justingroves]

I agree about the sheetrock guys, but flooring guys , if working independantly, make on average more than that. I did it for 20 years and got paid by the job. It averaged out to somewhere around $25/hr. Some days more, some less depending on the job itself. Union not needed, just experience and the skills to do the job right the first time.

I know people that do that too. A very good friend of mine makes about 100,000 a year building and installing custom cabinets and he works for himself.

 

[GASOUTHERNVOL]

Solution to our problem. We need to resurrect Andrew Jackson and put him back in the White House, we need that kind of dont take crap from anyone attitude, and will put foot to arse if someone messes with us. (look what he did at Horseshoe Bend and at Nawlins) I mean someone tried to assasinate him when he was in his 60s and his advisors had to hold HIM back from beating the attempted gunman with his cane.