A few plays made the difference

#26
#26
WesternKyVol said:
We have top 20 talent. Jones has had a full year with them. Highlighting the team's weakest links can be done for almost any team. Let's try to step back and take a holistic look.
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we DO NOT HAVE TOP 20 TALENT!!

Too many shady dooley/kiffen recruits no longer with the team
 
#27
#27
KBVol said:
So I see you didn't actually read my post or if you did you didn't comprehend it.

I personally do not think this UT team is very talented, regardless of what the recruiting services say. I've seen them play 11 times this year and they don't pass the eyeball test, at all. They're slow as hell.

My post referenced a poster or 2 that's gonna argue that we have more talent in the SEC than maybe only 2-3 teams, hence my tongue in cheek comment about the '85 Bears.
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So, attrition aside, if the recruiting services you reference have been wrong the past 4/5 classes, how much stock do you put in these same services ranking Jones' current class for next year? I doubt their analyst's matrices have changed much. Hopefully our player development improves drastically. The top ten classes are usually all laced with similar talent, but what seperates an Alabama from, say, a Georgia, is development of the 4/5 star recruit into an all-conference/all-american football player. As to how this staff can perform in that regard, the jury is still out. We can all point to Palardy, but the improvement of a k/p in his senior year, no matter how drastic, doesn't really say much at all to how current and incoming players will be coached to "play fast" rather than taking poor angles and trying to chase people down from behind as we seem to have been trying to do for four years now. Time will tell.
 
#28
#28
JonGrudensAgent said:
Vanderbilt lost their entire secondary, including one of their best players in Ladler, as well over the course of the game.

Talent wise, this was an even at best match up although I think the talent on the rosters overall still favored UT.

Those games usually come down to coaching and Jones and his staff failed miserably.
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North injury was soo huge...Probably more important than their secondary injuries... It changed our O and how they had to defend us..
 
#29
#29
Well, actually, as bad as we have looked. Poor Pig, if he doesn't fumble at the 1 inch line and if he just stands there on Dobbs run instead of putting his hands out, I think we win both of those games. We were pushing Ga around on both sides and that would've put us up 10 on Vandy, right? Drawing a blank. Maybe up 7. At any rate, that's 2 plays and I felt at the time that if we made those plays we win. 3rd and 1 against Vandy was a 3rd. 2-3 plays and as bad as we have looked, we would be bowling, ahead of the predicted wins, and this place would be a lovefest for the coaching staff.
 
#30
#30
PowerWookie said:
North injury was soo huge...Probably more important than their secondary injuries... It changed our O and how they had to defend us..
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I think losing Ladler had more on an impact on their defense than losing North did to our offense.

North hadn't had more than 7 receptions in a game this season and Jones used that as a convenient excuse for the terrible offensive output.

Our O line should have handled their D line and Neal and Lane should have had great games. Instead, we saw hand offs 9 yards deep on 3rd and 1 plays.

Ladler was a senior leader in their secondary and had interceptions in 4 straight games for them. Him going out was every bit as important if not moreso than North.

Just a difference in opinions though, no harm no foul.
 
#31
#31
Spartacavolus said:
Well, actually, as bad as we have looked. Poor Pig, if he doesn't fumble at the 1 inch line and if he just stands there on Dobbs run instead of putting his hands out, I think we win both of those games. We were pushing Ga around on both sides and that would've put us up 10 on Vandy, right? Drawing a blank. Maybe up 7. At any rate, that's 2 plays and I felt at the time that if we made those plays we win. 3rd and 1 against Vandy was a 3rd. 2-3 plays and as bad as we have looked, we would be bowling, ahead of the predicted wins, and this place would be a lovefest for the coaching staff.
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UT wasn't doing too much pushing around on UGA's 75 yard TD drive with under 2 minutes to go.
 
#32
#32
crunchimusmaximus said:
Wrong the biggest thing that made the difference was Dobbs not being able to complete a pass past the 5 yard marker resulting in our staff calling an extra vanilla offesive game plan....with an even average QB we win tha6t game by 2 scores easily if not 3.
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I said it in another thread, UT wins last week if Worley is starting. We're one-dimensional at this point. Nobody respects Dobbs's arm because he's not giving anyone a reason to.
 
#33
#33
TheColdVolTruth said:
So, attrition aside, if the recruiting services you reference have been wrong the past 4/5 classes, how much stock do you put in these same services ranking Jones' current class for next year? I doubt their analyst's matrices have changed much. Hopefully our player development improves drastically. The top ten classes are usually all laced with similar talent, but what seperates an Alabama from, say, a Georgia, is development of the 4/5 star recruit into an all-conference/all-american football player. As to how this staff can perform in that regard, the jury is still out. We can all point to Palardy, but the improvement of a k/p in his senior year, no matter how drastic, doesn't really say much at all to how current and incoming players will be coached to "play fast" rather than taking poor angles and trying to chase people down from behind as we seem to have been trying to do for four years now. Time will tell.
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The problem with CDD's top 20 classes is they aren't on the team. Here's the DBs for the last few years, which is where a lot of the problem lies.

2012
bonner - 4*
Gray - 3*
McNeill - 4*

2011
Coleman - 4*
Lanier - 4*
Pat Martin - 4*
Byron Moore - 4*
Geraldo Orta - 3*
Brian Randolph - 3*
Tino Thomas - 3*

2010
Dave Clark - 4*
Dixon - 3*
Loften - 4*
Sapp - 2*

Not a great attrition rate. There are 3 starters, 8 or 9 that are no longer on the team (or never qualified), a LB, and a solid backup. I can't even remember what happened to a lot of the names on that list. That's why Sutton, Swafford, and Toney are so crucial in the secondary. There just aren't many bodies.

If Jones can get this year's class on campus and keep them there that will give UT a fighting chance going forward.
 
#35
#35
Volsfaninva917 said:
I get your point but we are also a few plays away from being a 2 win football team right now
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We also are 2 plays away from playing for a 8 win season last week and the dawgs, a couple of plays and the whole fan base would have a totally different out look, we would be talking about how good of a season it had been, so there is hope.:eek:hmy:
 
#37
#37
Great analysis. This is a point some on VN have a problem grasping; all coaches can do is get players in position/formation/play to make a play. Then you either have people who can execute or you don't. Really all we need are a few "play makers." If anyone can step up and make a play on that last Vandy drive the Vols win. Get a sack, force a fumble, break up a third down pass, make a tackle for a loss; any of those in the right moment wins the game. The Vols have had those guys in the past. Many were not NFL caliber players, they just had a knack for making a play when it was needed most. Dale Jones comes to mind, there were many others. Here's hoping we have some in this next class.
 
#38
#38
ThreatLevelOrange said:
We can go on and on about missed assignments and silly penalties, which can be corrected with coaching. This post focuses on why that's moot until we get better talent.

There were two plays relatively late in the game, and if either go our way, we'd have a chance to make a bowl. Everyone would be happier.

1. 3rd and a long 1 with 4 1/2 minutes to go. Despite our deficiencies, we are moving the ball. Another first down is huge.

We use a FB and a 2 TE set, with Kerbyson on the left and Downs (our only TE at this point) on the right. Based on the result, I thought Vandy ran a run blitz and overwhelmed our line. Not so. Vandy did not run a goal line D, as they thought there was an outside chance of a pass. But Downs (as he is often asked to do in this offense) had to block the DE 1-on-1. The play would have picked up at least 3 yards, except Downs was blown up...got pushed 3-4 yards into the backfield. Neither the FB nor the pulling LG could help.

This was a well designed play, and it would've worked against the D called by Vandy. But one player overmatched at the point of attack forced us to punt.

2. Following the punt, Vandy had a 3rd and 7 at their own 14 with over 3 minutes to play. If we hold them, Vandy probably has to punt and burn all their Timeouts.

They spread the field, and we were expecting Matthews to get the ball. Why not? They attack the nickel personnel, as we had Probst and Swafford on the slot receiver. Easy completion, and their game-winning drive was underway. This was the same outcome as the 2010 game at LSU where we were forced to play N. Reveiz in pass coverage, because we could not field a Dime Package.

One was an example of getting whipped by a stronger player, and one was an example of two players without the speed to cover players in space. The sheer lack of talent on this roster magnifies any execution issues we've seen.

Next year can't get here fast enough.
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Our inability to cover the wide receiver screen pass cost us I know 5 TDs on the year....just don't have people with enough speed to close on it when the cornerback gets blocked..,,which he did at least 4 times in the Vandy game alone...,SPEED, SPEED. SPEED or lack thereof...,and the season went that way all year long....not to mention not enough speed to cover mobile QBs...,
 
#39
#39
triadvolfan said:
The problem with CDD's top 20 classes is they aren't on the team. Here's the DBs for the last few years, which is where a lot of the problem lies.

2012
bonner - 4*
Gray - 3*
McNeill - 4*

2011
Coleman - 4*
Lanier - 4*
Pat Martin - 4*
Byron Moore - 4*
Geraldo Orta - 3*
Brian Randolph - 3*
Tino Thomas - 3*

2010
Dave Clark - 4*
Dixon - 3*
Loften - 4*
Sapp - 2*

Not a great attrition rate. There are 3 starters, 8 or 9 that are no longer on the team (or never qualified), a LB, and a solid backup. I can't even remember what happened to a lot of the names on that list. That's why Sutton, Swafford, and Toney are so crucial in the secondary. There just aren't many bodies.

If Jones can get this year's class on campus and keep them there that will give UT a fighting chance going forward.
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I wonder what the fastest 40 time is among those....I know a couple were listed fairly fast but that's it....
 
#40
#40
ThreatLevelOrange said:
We can go on and on about missed assignments and silly penalties, which can be corrected with coaching. This post focuses on why that's moot until we get better talent.

There were two plays relatively late in the game, and if either go our way, we'd have a chance to make a bowl. Everyone would be happier.

1. 3rd and a long 1 with 4 1/2 minutes to go. Despite our deficiencies, we are moving the ball. Another first down is huge.

We use a FB and a 2 TE set, with Kerbyson on the left and Downs (our only TE at this point) on the right. Based on the result, I thought Vandy ran a run blitz and overwhelmed our line. Not so. Vandy did not run a goal line D, as they thought there was an outside chance of a pass. But Downs (as he is often asked to do in this offense) had to block the DE 1-on-1. The play would have picked up at least 3 yards, except Downs was blown up...got pushed 3-4 yards into the backfield. Neither the FB nor the pulling LG could help.

This was a well designed play, and it would've worked against the D called by Vandy. But one player overmatched at the point of attack forced us to punt.

2. Following the punt, Vandy had a 3rd and 7 at their own 14 with over 3 minutes to play. If we hold them, Vandy probably has to punt and burn all their Timeouts.

They spread the field, and we were expecting Matthews to get the ball. Why not? They attack the nickel personnel, as we had Probst and Swafford on the slot receiver. Easy completion, and their game-winning drive was underway. This was the same outcome as the 2010 game at LSU where we were forced to play N. Reveiz in pass coverage, because we could not field a Dime Package.

One was an example of getting whipped by a stronger player, and one was an example of two players without the speed to cover players in space. The sheer lack of talent on this roster magnifies any execution issues we've seen.

Next year can't get here fast enough.
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Don't you know the coaches are coaching them to get blown up at the line of scrimmage and to leave receivers wide open. Insert SARCASM.
 
#41
#41
triadvolfan said:
The problem with CDD's top 20 classes is they aren't on the team. Here's the DBs for the last few years, which is where a lot of the problem lies.

2012
bonner - 4*
Gray - 3*
McNeill - 4*

2011
Coleman - 4*
Lanier - 4*
Pat Martin - 4*
Byron Moore - 4*
Geraldo Orta - 3*
Brian Randolph - 3*
Tino Thomas - 3*

2010
Dave Clark - 4*
Dixon - 3*
Loften - 4*
Sapp - 2*

Not a great attrition rate. There are 3 starters, 8 or 9 that are no longer on the team (or never qualified), a LB, and a solid backup. I can't even remember what happened to a lot of the names on that list. That's why Sutton, Swafford, and Toney are so crucial in the secondary. There just aren't many bodies.

If Jones can get this year's class on campus and keep them there that will give UT a fighting chance going forward.
Click to expand...

McNeil was highly recruited but at this point he has not shown that he is a SEC player.
 
#42
#42
Boca Vol said:
UT wasn't doing too much pushing around on UGA's 75 yard TD drive with under 2 minutes to go.
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We handled them all night and were putting guys out. That was classic Andy murray with a little prevent d mixed in and happens every few minutes on Saturdays. That play puts us up 7 in OT.
 
#43
#43
Spartacavolus said:
We handled them all night and were putting guys out. That was classic Andy murray with a little prevent d mixed in and happens every few minutes on Saturdays. That play puts us up 7 in OT.
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Dont forget the late hit by Walls I believe...I think happen on the last drive....
 
#44
#44
K-town Vol Fan said:
Top 20 talent? We are starting walk ons in the secondary.
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Dude all you do is make excuses for jones and staff like you did for Dooley. Jones and his Cincy buds get paid big Money to coach and prepare our guys a hell of alot better that they have so far this season!
 
#45
#45
VolFootballlover said:
Dude all you do is make excuses for jones and st. f like you did for Dooley. Jones and his Cincy buds get paid big Money to coach and prepare our guys a hell of alot better that they have so far this season!
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How is that an excuse? We have walk ons guarding the best receivers in the country. Our best WR is a true freshman. Our qb is a true freshman whose best college offer was Arizona state. Vandy didn't even offer him. How is that an excuse? Devon Swafford was at DB last year playing running back now he is basically starting on defense and he isnt even on scholarship. If you think this team has top 20 talent you are truly clueless and tells me all I need to know about your football knowledge.
 
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#47
#47
K-town Vol Fan said:
How is that an excuse? We have walk ons guarding the best receivers in the country. Our best WR is a true freshman. Our qb is a true freshman whose best college offer was Arizona state. Vandy didn't even offer him. How is that an excuse? Devon Swafford was at DB last year playing running back now he is basically starting on defense and he isnt even on scholarship. If you think this team has top 20 talent you are truly clueless and tells me all I need to know about your football knowledge.
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Well all of you keep making excuses for piss poor coaching and except being SEC east bottom dwellers for the next 3 years,or until Jones hires some quality staff! You guys are quick to call out these players who play for UT , and even the coaches have said "they have done every thing we asked" but not 1 time do you hold this staff accountable .You can't tell me Tennessee don't have more Talent than Vandy,Mizzu,Kentucky! You can how ever bet they have not been coached up since they arrived at Tennessee! we have 19 db's listed on our roster, your telling me we don't have nothing but walk ons?
 
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#48
#48
VolFootballlover said:
Well all of you keep making excuses for piss poor coaching and except being SEC east bottom dwellers for the next 3 years,or until Jones hires some quality staff! You guys are quick to call out these players who play for UT , and even the coaches have said "they have done every thing we asked" but not 1 time do you hold this staff accountable .You can't tell me Tennessee don't have more Talent than Vandy,Mizzu,Kentucky! You can how ever bet they have not been coached up since they arrived at Tennessee! we have 19 db's listed on our roster, your telling me we don't have nothing but walk ons?
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Once again, if you think we have more talent than Mizzou then you really do have no idea what you're talking about. Do a little research. Have a look at our roster.
 
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