A new low in American politics

#51
#51
lawgator1 said:
In fairness, things were a bit different then.

Pre-9/11 if would have been very difficult to go into a foreign country and takeout a terrorist leader. In fact, given the circumstances at the time it might have led to a stronger Al-Qaeda.

Interestingly, in 2007 during the primaries, Obama said he would give the order to go into a foreign country to go after bin Laden if intelligence said he was there. Romney said he would not.

After Obama said he would go into Pakistan to get bin Laden, Romney said:

"I do not concur in the words of Barack Obama in a plan to enter an ally of ours... I don't think those kinds of comments help in this effort to draw more friends to our effort.” And: "I think his comments were ill-timed and ill-considered.”




So, Romney and his camp have majorly f'd up here. By taking the bait on the original comments, Obama's people can now play those words back at Romney. And so when he says "of course" he would have gone into Pakistan to get bin Laden?

Yet ANOTHER flip flop from Romney! He specifically criticized Obama for saying that back in 2007.
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And Bush was unpatriotic for running up the debt.
 
#52
#52
lawgator1 said:
Romney was asked if he would have ordered the raid that killed bin Laden.

He said "Of course I would."

Fair enough. Might be true. It is the expected response.

But then he did something so incredibly insulting and mean spirited I hope the board will join me in universally condemning it.

He added, with a smile, "Even Carter would have."

Eight brave servicemen died in that failed mission. For Romney to have intentionally invoked that for political purposes and to tie it to Obama .... Just despicable.
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Typical liberal making a mountain of a molehill. You know damn well that is not what he was insinuating. He obviously was joking about Carter's peaceful demeanor. Do you really think he was taking a jab at 8 dead servicemen? It you do, you are a damned fool.
 
#53
#53
BeecherVol said:
And Bush was unpatriotic for running up the debt.
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yep and don't forget

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.” …….. Senator Barack Obama
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#55
#55
lawgator1 said:
In fairness, things were a bit different then.

Pre-9/11 if would have been very difficult to go into a foreign country and takeout a terrorist leader. In fact, given the circumstances at the time it might have led to a stronger Al-Qaeda.

Interestingly, in 2007 during the primaries, Obama said he would give the order to go into a foreign country to go after bin Laden if intelligence said he was there. Romney said he would not.

After Obama said he would go into Pakistan to get bin Laden, Romney said:

"I do not concur in the words of Barack Obama in a plan to enter an ally of ours... I don't think those kinds of comments help in this effort to draw more friends to our effort.” And: "I think his comments were ill-timed and ill-considered.”




So, Romney and his camp have majorly f'd up here. By taking the bait on the original comments, Obama's people can now play those words back at Romney. And so when he says "of course" he would have gone into Pakistan to get bin Laden?

Yet ANOTHER flip flop from Romney! He specifically criticized Obama for saying that back in 2007.
Click to expand...

It's all sooooooo disingenuous though. They knew for awhile where OBL was and surely waited until they determined that Pakistan wasn't going to deal with it and decided that the relationship with Pakistan was at a point where any diplomatic fallout would be meaningless . . . which is exactly what any President would have likely done.

As for Clinton, you are right that the environment was different . . . that still doesn't excuse the hypocrisy of him narrating the commercial armchair quarterbacking what another guy would have done; especially given the fact that he knows what goes into a decision like that.
 
#56
#56
utvolpj said:
except now they should just shut up and get out of the way for the Obama train? Sorry but they have done more in their lives to serve the American people than Obama will ever do. The pres can spike the football all he wants but these men actually had to pull the trigger.
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They are entitled to their opinions, just like everyone else. But it is obvious that their opinions were "mined," and passed off as news to give the impression they had just come forward of their own volition to protest this outrage of Obama getting some credit for giving the go order.

In fact, know what I think? I think that if you were willing to be honest here you would admit that you have some lingering doubts that Romney would have done it. Some question that he is so sensitive to try to say and do the thing that is least risky to his political position that he would hesitate.

I think if you were honest you would admit that.
 
#57
#57
I've been living a lie and only LG can see my honest thoughts.

To continue with my self delusion - I have zero doubt that Romney would have taken out OBL if in the same situation; zero.
 
#59
#59
I actually have no doubts that any person elected POTUS would have done the same. Quit acting like Obama made some groundbreaking decision that an ordinary man would have been incapable of making.

the honesty part is laughable since you haven't been honest in this forum since before the last Presidential election.
 
#60
#60
lawgator1 said:
They are entitled to their opinions, just like everyone else. But it is obvious that their opinions were "mined," and passed off as news to give the impression they had just come forward of their own volition to protest this outrage of Obama getting some credit for giving the go order.

In fact, know what I think? I think that if you were willing to be honest here you would admit that you have some lingering doubts that Romney would have done it. Some question that he is so sensitive to try to say and do the thing that is least risky to his political position that he would hesitate.

I think if you were honest you would admit that.
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Is this what the campaign you support has come to? Starting debates and arguments over hypothetical situations? Seems desperate. And sad.
 
#61
#61
volinbham said:
I've been living a lie and only LG can see my honest thoughts.

To continue with my self delusion - I have zero doubt that Romney would have taken out OBL if in the same situation; zero.
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How do you square that with him in 2007 criticizing Obama for saying he'd go into Pakistan to do it?
 
#62
#62
lawgator1 said:
They are entitled to their opinions, just like everyone else. But it is obvious that their opinions were "mined," and passed off as news to give the impression they had just come forward of their own volition to protest this outrage of Obama getting some credit for giving the go order.

In fact, know what I think? I think that if you were willing to be honest here you would admit that you have some lingering doubts that Romney would have done it. Some question that he is so sensitive to try to say and do the thing that is least risky to his political position that he would hesitate.

I think if you were honest you would admit that.
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If you were being honest you'd admit that every decision Obama makes is politically calculated - no different than Romney.
 
#63
#63
utvolpj said:
I actually have no doubts that any person elected POTUS would have done the same. Quit acting like Obama made some groundbreaking decision that an ordinary man would have been incapable of making.

the honesty part is laughable since you haven't been honest in this forum since before the last Presidential election.
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It really is this simple.
 
#64
#64
lawgator1 said:
How do you square that with him in 2007 criticizing Obama for saying he'd go into Pakistan to do it?
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Political talk?

How do you square any number of things Obama said he would not do with what he is actually doing - particularly things like rendition? A review of Obama's pre-POTUS comments on conduct of military action shows any number of inconsistencies with what he has done.

There is nothing to see here.
 
#65
#65
utvolpj said:
I actually have no doubts that any person elected POTUS would have done the same. Quit acting like Leon Panettamade some groundbreaking decision that an ordinary man would have been incapable of making.

the honesty part is laughable since you haven't been honest in this forum since before the last Presidential election.
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fify
 
#66
#66
lawgator1 said:
How do you square that with him in 2007 criticizing Obama for saying he'd go into Pakistan to do it?
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The same way this is.

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.” …….. Senator Barack Obama
Click to expand...

For an educated man, I figured you would see the pattern in the politics of it.
 
#67
#67
volinbham said:
If you were being honest you'd admit that every decision Obama makes is politically calculated - no different than Romney.
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I've never heard mention of this on VN, but it's pretty damning. Obama is telling the Russian president, "This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility,"

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsFR8DbSRQE[/youtube]
 
#69
#69
RAMFNLclr-050112-courage-CO.jpg
 
#71
#71
At the time the president’s policy was actually quite controversial. The Republican presidential nominee, Senator John McCain (R-AZ), claimed that then-Senator Obama lacked the experience and judgment to serve as commander-in-chief. McCain argued that it was irresponsible for Obama to say that he would invade Pakistan, since the invasion may potentially upset a valuable ally in the war on terror. Despite the criticism, President Obama stuck with his original stance, and said time and time again that he would send a team to kill bin Laden if he found him within Pakistan.

Obama was criticized for his stance to kill Bin Laden by the GOP, including Romney. This is one issue that Obama said he would do and he did.
Here is a video of the 2nd Presidential Depate in 2008.

Video - During 2008 campaign President Obama promises to kill bin Laden in Pakistan if he has actionable intelligence - National Political Buzz | Examiner.com
 
#72
#72
dave956 said:
The problem with Romney's statement is that as usual it totally contradicts statements he made in 2007-08. Who would have thought?

Contrary to popular opinion around here, the President stated during his campaign what he would do foreign policy wise and militarily, including if he had the opprtunity to fo something like the OBL raid. President Obama has been remarkably consistent in fulfilling these promises. Ex-SECDEF Gates has stated that it's one of the gutsiest decisions he's seen a President make. And he served in what, five or six administrations?

I guess it wouldn't be tacky if Mr. Obama hopped on an aircraft carrier, stuffed his crotch full of socks, stood I'm front of a giant "Mission Accomplished" banner babbling pidgin English. Much more tasteful. Except of course having the balls to actually accomplished the mission. THE NERVE!!!

And just for the record, President Carter was anything but weak. He knew more about command than any other President save Ike. Annapolis grad, submarine commander and was cleared for command of nuclear subs when he left the service to go home to run the farm. He too had the guts to order that raid to free the hostages. Not his fault it didn't work. He inherited an insanely bad economy (we had wrestled with high inflation and interest rates for YEARS). That by the way persisted well in Reagan's first term. Most of all, and a big part of his downfall was his habit of insisting that the American people sacrifice, actually make lifestyle changes to solve various problems, notably the energy shortages of the Seventies. He is a good man who served IMHO quite ably in a really effed up time. After all, Bill Battle was head coach when he was elected. LOL
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Really? Which nuclear sub did he command? As a lieutenant in 1953? He was scheduled to be the engineering officer.

High interest rates for years prior to Carter? The prime rate didn't hit double figures until October 1978, a year and a half after he took office.

I understand that you are a loyal democrat, but don't try to rewrite history.
 
#73
#73
KentheOrange said:
Really? Which nuclear sub did he command? As a lieutenant in 1953? He was scheduled to be the engineering officer.

High interest rates for years prior to Carter? The prime rate didn't hit double figures until October 1978,a year and a half after he took office.I understand that you are a loyal democrat, but don't try to rewrite history.
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The prime rate in July 1974 was 12%.
 
#74
#74
Carter did a few obviously stupid things, and had a calamity with the hostage crisis. He is viewed as an all-time bad president, but the damage he did ended within a few years of leaving office. Guys like LBJ, FDR, JFK, Nixon, Bush etc. did stuff that still adversely affects us today, and will for decades to come. Carter is treated unfairly by history. We focus on his bad, and ignore/fail to see the terrible stuff others did.
 
#75
#75
n_huffhines said:
Carter did a few obviously stupid things, and had a calamity with the hostage crisis. He is viewed as an all-time bad president, but the damage he did ended within a few years of leaving office. Guys like LBJ, FDR, JFK, Nixon, Bush etc. did stuff that still adversely affects us today, and will for decades to come. Carter is treated unfairly by history. We focus on his bad, and ignore/fail to see the terrible stuff others did.
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he gets treated so badly b/c he's a bitter ex-president that can't let go of the fact that he lost to Reagan. iirc, the carter administration was excited to face Reagan b/c they viewed him as a joke.
 
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