ACORN Vegas Office Raided in Voter Fraud Investigation

#26
#26
notverycrucial said:
Problem is: there is nothing that shows an overt effort by ACORN to steal this election. Just as there was nothing to show an overt effort by Bush to steal the election last time. The arguments are shrill on both sides.
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Sure, show me an organization tied to Bush where Bush was a lawyer for the firm gave money to support them and also have proof that the organization in question has been raided on several instances because of voter fraud and then we'll talk...
 
#27
#27
I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong.. But, didn't BO begin his relationship with Acorn by representing them? Thus springboarding him into the greatest community organizer in the world.
 
#28
#28
tim said:
I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong.. But, didn't BO begin his relationship with Acorn by representing them? Thus springboarding him into the greatest community organizer in the world.
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No, he was identified as a good candidate for their demonstrations on banks early on. In fact he did so well they had him train others and they organized demonstrations at banks (and other places) to put pressure on them to offer sub prime loans in the inner city and what was perceived as risky areas.

He did also represent ACORN (I believe), he served as council for a case where I believe a bank was being sued for not offering sub prime loans.

I may be wrong on a detail or two but that is the jist of his known connection to ACORN.
 
#29
#29
More good news from ACORN:

According to STATSIndiana, In 2007, Indianapolis/Marion County had an estimated population of 876,804. Of that number 232,607 were below 18 years of age, for a total of 644,197 people in Marion County/Indianapolis 18 or over and thus eligible to vote. (Indiana allows felons to vote as long as they are not incarcerated).
So we have 644,197 people eligible to be registered in Marion County/Indianapolis, and 677,401 people registered. Congratulations go to Indianapolis for having 105% of its residents registered!
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Indiana: More Registered to Vote Than Eligible, Media Misses Story | NewsBusters.org

I think I shall become a Palinist!
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#30
#30
notverycrucial said:
Problem is: there is nothing that shows an overt effort by ACORN to steal this election. Just as there was nothing to show an overt effort by Bush to steal the election last time. The arguments are shrill on both sides.
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What about all these FBI investigations into ACORN currently going on. The facts are undeniable even for a democrat and clearly point to Osama Obama's ties to this sleezy organiztion. Just like Obama's wife working for the same law firm as the terrorist, Ayers, wife. It is hard even for you democrats to deny that association. I know you try to paint Obama as a the second coming of the messiah but you may be romoting that opposite. Wasn't Obama the man chosen by Ayers to oversee the spending of the grant money from Ayers foundation? Guess Obama didn't know him then either.

Obama claims that he didn't know Ayers but has anyone ask Hussein Obama's wife what she knew the Ayers family? Terrorist and anarchist can't keep silent so it is likely that Ayers wife let her hatred for this country be well know around the water cooler at work.
 
#35
#35
CaedmonVol said:
Jesus said to give 10% to the Church. The Church gives money to the poor. Are you against that too?
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The Church doesn't take your money by force, it is given freely. In this case the governemnt would take your money just to give it to someone else, the church identifies needs and addresses them. There is a huge difference.
 
#36
#36
CaedmonVol said:
Jesus said to give 10% to the Church. The Church gives money to the poor. Are you against that too?
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If you don't tithe, the church isn't going to come to your house and seize things. Joining a church isn't required of US citizens.
 
#37
#37
kptvol said:
If you don't tithe, the church isn't going to come to your house and seize things. Joining a church isn't required of US citizens.
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He said wealth redistribution, not compulsory wealth redistribution. Charitable giving is wealth redistribution.
 
#38
#38
CaedmonVol said:
He said wealth redistribution, not compulsory wealth redistribution. Charitable giving is wealth redistribution.
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Well now that you say that, you've really taken the wind out of all of our sails. I guess Obama should be President.
 
#39
#39
CaedmonVol said:
Jesus said to give 10% to the Church. The Church gives money to the poor. Are you against that too?
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Tithing is something that is done voluntarily. It is a free choice made. Do you think that anybody would be impressed with someone else if they were forced to donate money?

Also, 10% is considerably lower than what the government is stealing from the citizens.

Finally, please do not bring Jesus into a discussion of BHO. Last time I checked, Jesus never referred to a baby as a punishment.
 
#40
#40
therealUT said:
Tithing is something that is done voluntarily. It is a free choice made. Do you think that anybody would be impressed with someone else if they were forced to donate money?

Also, 10% is considerably lower than what the government is stealing from the citizens.

Finally, please do not bring Jesus into a discussion of BHO. Last time I checked, Jesus never referred to a baby as a punishment.
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Please don't tell me that I can't invoke the name of my Savior if I choose to do so. If you're threatened by my Christian faith, go back to Tehran.
 
#41
#41
CaedmonVol said:
Please don't tell me that I can't invoke the name of my Savior if I choose to do so. If you're threatened by my Christian faith, go back to Tehran.
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I will tell you right now not to pervert the message that Christ gave the world, as you have in this thread.
 
#42
#42
therealUT said:
I will tell you right now not to pervert the message that Christ gave the world, as you have in this thread.
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What is your problem? Last I checked, Christ's message was about love, kindness, giving, and forgiveness. I'm pretty sure that includes giving to the Church, and I'm pretty sure that includes helping those less fortunate than yourself. How is it perverting that message to point out that "wealth redistribution" (perceived as bad by some people on this board) is something that Jesus said to do?

Yes, the Tehran remark was a joke, but I think appropriate in light of suggesting that "BHO" is some Muslim heathen who wants to kill babies.
 
#43
#43
CaedmonVol said:
What is your problem? Last I checked, Christ's message was about love, kindness, giving, and forgiveness. I'm pretty sure that includes giving to the Church, and I'm pretty sure that includes helping those less fortunate than yourself. How is it perverting that message to point out that "wealth redistribution" (perceived as bad by some people on this board) is something that Jesus said to do?

Yes, the Tehran remark was a joke, but I think appropriate in light of suggesting that "BHO" is some Muslim heathen who wants to kill babies.
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Last time I checked, Christ's message was one of justice and, to those who are truly contrite and repentant, mercy.

The US Federal Government uses our tax money and distributes it as "hand-outs". You should read the Bible and you will learn plenty, through the parables, about what Jesus felt for hand-outs. He was an advocate of helping people get back on their feet, yes. However, that help came in the form of making sure those people worked their asses off to do so.

You can sugar coat Christ's message all you want. Maybe it will make you feel better. However, Jesus stood for hard work, hard choice, and doing the right thing, above all. His love and charity was not some blank check to those who had no desire to repent their past and work to improve their future.

I am not in any way calling BHO a Muslim, in this thread. He is a heathen though. Also, he certainly made the statement that a baby is a punishment.

Feel free to fact check everything I have said here.
 
#44
#44
wealth redistribution and tithing are two mutually exclusive concepts.

again, slowly, tithing and charity are completely voluntary.

raising taxes or imposing taxes for the purpose of welfare is isn't voluntary and is therefore socialism, or welfare redistribution.
 
#45
#45
MG1968 said:
wealth redistribution and tithing are two mutually exclusive concepts.

again, slowly, tithing and charity are completely voluntary.

raising taxes or imposing taxes for the purpose of welfare is isn't voluntary and is therefore socialism, or welfare redistribution.
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Dude, come on. I was merely pointing out the difference between "wealth redistribution" (not mandatory) and "compulsory wealth redistribution." I'm pretty sure I understand the difference between volunary tithing and taxes mandated by law.

The fallacy in your argument though, is that all taxation is converted into welfare. Unless you consider Medicare and Social Security to be welfare (which would mean that you think senior citizens should just stop being lazy and get a job), the vast majority of your federal tax dollars go to these entitlements, plus defense, plus roads, court systems, FBI, Post office, and so many other services that you use and enjoy every day. The percentage of your tax dollars transferred into the hands of poor people is just a small slice of the pie.
 
#47
#47
CaedmonVol said:
Dude, come on. I was merely pointing out the difference between "wealth redistribution" (not mandatory) and "compulsory wealth redistribution." I'm pretty sure I understand the difference between volunary tithing and taxes mandated by law.

The fallacy in your argument though, is that all taxation is converted into welfare. Unless you consider Medicare and Social Security to be welfare (which would mean that you think senior citizens should just stop being lazy and get a job), the vast majority of your federal tax dollars go to these entitlements, plus defense, plus roads, court systems, FBI, Post office, and so many other services that you use and enjoy every day. The percentage of your tax dollars transferred into the hands of poor people is just a small slice of the pie.
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The difference is perception. What you say about the technical definition of wealth redistribution is true. The term can be applied to tithing, charity and government programs, among other things. However, many view the term wealth redistribution as mandatory because it is a precept of socialism. To many people, “compulsory” is seen as an implied adjective when talking about wealth redistribution.

Also I think many see wealth redistribution going beyond welfare and other government entitlement programs. They see the disproportionate amount of income taxes that the higher earners pay as subsidizing all other functions of government for those who pay little or no income tax.
 
#48
#48
CaedmonVol said:
Dude, come on. I was merely pointing out the difference between "wealth redistribution" (not mandatory) and "compulsory wealth redistribution." I'm pretty sure I understand the difference between volunary tithing and taxes mandated by law.

The fallacy in your argument though, is that all taxation is converted into welfare. Unless you consider Medicare and Social Security to be welfare (which would mean that you think senior citizens should just stop being lazy and get a job), the vast majority of your federal tax dollars go to these entitlements, plus defense, plus roads, court systems, FBI, Post office, and so many other services that you use and enjoy every day. The percentage of your tax dollars transferred into the hands of poor people is just a small slice of the pie.
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I don't want any of my tax dollars being transferred to "poor" people. The Constitution is quite clear about what the government is to use tax dollars for and social welfare is nowhere to be found.
 
#49
#49
CaedmonVol said:
The fallacy in your argument though, is that all taxation is converted into welfare. Unless you consider Medicare and Social Security to be welfare (which would mean that you think senior citizens should just stop being lazy and get a job), the vast majority of your federal tax dollars go to these entitlements, plus defense, plus roads, court systems, FBI, Post office, and so many other services that you use and enjoy every day. The percentage of your tax dollars transferred into the hands of poor people is just a small slice of the pie.
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Yes. They are most certainly welfare. I have no desire to take care of some old person or ailing person whom I have never met and have absolutely no communal ties to.

Our tax dollars also goes to subsidies (welfare) and unemployment insurance (welfare).

Further, our entire tax system is a form of welfare. By mandating that the rich pay more than the poor, the government is leaving more money in the hands of the poor and taking more from the rich. That, Sir, is a form of welfare.
 
#50
#50
MG1968 said:
I don't want any of my tax dollars being transferred to "poor" people. The Constitution is quite clear about what the government is to use tax dollars for and social welfare is nowhere to be found.
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Really, which part of the Constitution talks about that? Maybe I should ask Sarah Palin, I'm sure she'll know.
 
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