AD White on UVA HC

[VFL-82-JP]

I think if you put together some thoughts that have already been posted in this thread it is easy to understand where both men feel they are right. Elliot and White obviously had in depth discussions about the job, where Elliot may have honestly felt that to be an offer. DW, on the other hand, sees an offer as a very formal presentation for employment, which Elliot was not given. In the end, DW offered CJH. CJH accepted the position and now we are better then we have been in years. Go Vols!

I don't think it got anywhere near that kind of discussion.

I think more likely it was a 30-second conversation (or maybe a 30 second initial conversation, then another 30-second conversation the next day after Elliott had a chance to think about it) along the lines of what's in post #48, above.

Go Vols!

 

[Tman44]

More accurate to say Elliott declined the opportunity to be interviewed for the job.

Even as he wooed James Franklin, Dan White was putting in phone calls to other possible candidates. "Hey, things may work out that I'd like to talk to you about the Tennessee job. If they do, you interested?" That sort of thing. Not a job offer. Not anywhere near a job offer. Just feeling out a fella's interest.

And Elliott could have said, "no, I appreciate the interest but I think the timing would be bad for me right now."

And that could be what Tony Elliott is (honestly and correctly) describing.

Note that in all of that:
(1) Tennessee doesn't ever offer Elliott the job, just the chance to compete for it if things open up.
(2) Elliott never turns down the job (just the opportunity to interview for it).
(3) Elliott is never our top choice. In fact, he might never be above plan C, or D, or whatever. We don't know (and will never know) how many phone calls Dan White made to folks on his short list, gauging interest. Evidence at the time indicated there were at least a couple, including Elliott. But none of them were ever the top candidate.

Go Vols!

I don't think it got anywhere near that kind of discussion.

I think more likely it was a 30-second conversation (or maybe a 30 second initial conversation, then another 30-second conversation the next day after Elliott had a chance to think about it) along the lines of what's in post #48, above.

Go Vols!

So by that rationale, Tony Elliot is full of Bull. I'm fine with that. Go Vols!

 

[sjt18]

There is plenty of "wiggle room" here but it is good to remember how these coaching searches work.

Coaches NEVER want it said that they wanted a job and the school declined. The school never wants it said that they wanted a particular coach and they turned the job down.

So there is a "dance" they do where both sides can say they weren't turned down. They hint and posture and have backdoor phone calls between agents and "people close to the program".


In this particular case, the UVA HC kind of violated the unspoken rule. You don't do things to make the other side look bad after the fact. White's job is UT image and he thought Elliott was stepping on it.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

So by that rationale, Tony Elliot is full of Bull. I'm fine with that. Go Vols!

Yeah, every word Elliott has ever said (or tweeted) about the Vols coaching search in January 2021 could be true, and him STILL be attempting to mislead the public into thinking he could've had the job. When it was never his for the taking.

And I think that's the part Dan White objects to, and why he called Elliott out. It's not so much what Elliott said as what he IMPLIED when he said it.

Go Vols!

 

[McDad]

It all seems very petty to me. I do not actively search out drama...and that quote from TE doesn't imply anything to me. I also do not infer a message in the quote. The job wasn't for him. Great. He wasn't offered. We are better off because it wasn't the right fit for him. I wouldn't trade CJH for any other active coach, including Saban.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

It all seems very petty to me. I do not actively search out drama...and that quote from TE doesn't imply anything to me. I also do not infer a message in the quote. The job wasn't for him. Great. He wasn't offered. We are better off because it wasn't the right fit for him. I wouldn't trade CJH for any other active coach, including Saban.

It is petty, and nitpicky. But still interesting, and historically significant.

Folks decades from now will bring up the John Currie / Philip Fulmer coaching search that burned through Schiano before arriving at Pruitt as one of the most dysfunctional searches in American college football history.

And they wouldn't be wrong.

So it's really important for the Tennessee brand that our very next coaching search, just three years later, be as professionally and competently executed as Dan White did it. Understanding what happened during those six days between White becoming our AD and Heupel becoming our HC, then, is significant.

So yeah, pedantic and unseemly. But important to have correct in our collective memory, nonetheless.

Go Vols!

 

[McDad]

It is petty, and nitpicky. But still interesting, and historically significant.

Folks decades from now will bring up the John Currie / Philip Fulmer coaching search that burned through Schiano before arriving at Pruitt as one of the most dysfunctional searches in American college football history.

And they wouldn't be wrong.

So it's really important for the Tennessee brand that our very next coaching search, just three years later, be as professionally and competently executed as Dan White did it. Understanding what happened during those six days between White becoming our AD and Heupel becoming our HC, then, is significant.

So yeah, pedantic and unseemly. But important to have correct in our collective memory, nonetheless.

Go Vols!

Is anyone claiming the DW coaching search wasn't professional and competent?

 

[VAVol85]

TE was saying things far less complimentary about UT a couple of years ago. I went from indifferent to him, to loathing him.
He strongly implied God saved him from our dysfunction and the fallout from the Pruitt scandal, and taking this job would have been the biggest mistake of his life and for his family.

I had forgotten that but do seem to remember something about TE not wanting to be involved with the bad culture. I recall being appreciative that Heupel was willing to accept the challenge of changing the culture rather than simply running from it.

 

[BigBadVol]

I love it! AD White is pure gangsta and the best in the business!

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Is anyone claiming the DW coaching search wasn't professional and competent?

It has been claimed (not just here; in a number of threads over the past 2+ years) that multiple candidates turned down the job. Which isn't true.

It is not technically true: as folks have argued in this thread, you can't turn down what isn't offered.

But it is not true in a more general sense, either. We all know Franklin was the first top choice. Some mistakenly believe there were a series of other top candidates after Franklin but before Heupel. That's not even marginally true.

So yes, some in these boards misunderstood what happened, making Dan White's search seem more scatted and multi-staged (less clean, professional and competent) than it was.

 

[sjt18]

It all seems very petty to me. I do not actively search out drama...and that quote from TE doesn't imply anything to me. I also do not infer a message in the quote. The job wasn't for him. Great. He wasn't offered. We are better off because it wasn't the right fit for him. I wouldn't trade CJH for any other active coach, including Saban.

If I read White's response correctly then it wasn't just one comment. He implied that TE had said similar things multiple times implying that he had turned down very serious interest from UT.

I really don't know since that was all behind "closed doors". I do tend to think of White as a guy with integrity though.

 

[TCNC53]

The point being if Franklin wanted the job he would currently be the HC but he turned us down.

Thankfully. Can’t stand Franklin. He would not have been a good fit here. Hope he never becomes an option to be our coach.

 

[ButchPlz]

There is plenty of "wiggle room" here but it is good to remember how these coaching searches work.

Coaches NEVER want it said that they wanted a job and the school declined. The school never wants it said that they wanted a particular coach and they turned the job down.

So there is a "dance" they do where both sides can say they weren't turned down. They hint and posture and have backdoor phone calls between agents and "people close to the program".


In this particular case, the UVA HC kind of violated the unspoken rule. You don't do things to make the other side look bad after the fact. White's job is UT image and he thought Elliott was stepping on it.

Bingo.

Either way, Elliott comes across as having sour grapes. If he truly could have come to UT, he missed the boat bigtime- got virtually booted from Clempson and ends up at an awful UVa program (and he's making it worse). I'm not sure how any of this makes him look competent.

Plus, despite the little "compliment" he tried to give, he's basically telling our players they aren't good enough for him. Vols by a million.

 

[McDad]

It has been claimed (not just here; in a number of threads over the past 2+ years) that multiple candidates turned down the job. Which isn't true.

It is not technically true: as folks have argued in this thread, you can't turn down what isn't offered.

But it is not true in a more general sense, either. We all know Franklin was the first top choice. Some mistakenly believe there were a series of other top candidates after Franklin but before Heupel. That's not even marginally true.

So yes, some in these boards misunderstood what happened, making Dan White's search seem more scatted and multi-staged (less clean, professional and competent) than it was.

Fair point, JP.

I should have used a qualifier in my "anyone" [saying the search wasn't professional and competent]. We are living in an age where some think the earth is flat. So, I should have said anyone noteworthy or objective.

I have found nothing on DW that would suggest he doesn't routinely comport himself in the most exemplary fashion.

 

[McDad]

If I read White's response correctly then it wasn't just one comment. He implied that TE had said similar things multiple times implying that he had turned down very serious interest from UT.

I really don't know since that was all behind "closed doors". I do tend to think of White as a guy with integrity though.

You're correct. He mentioned that.

I am only judging the situation on the quote from TE provided and the response by DW.

 

[MAD]

White with the best comeback response.
Our Guy

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Fair point, JP.

I should have used a qualifier in my "anyone" [saying the search wasn't professional and competent]. We are living in an age where some think the earth is flat. So, I should have said anyone noteworthy or objective.

I have found nothing on DW that would suggest he doesn't routinely comport himself in the most exemplary fashion.

Agreed.

Interestingly, though, the online reporter Zach Ragan, who is most definitely a friend of the Vols program, is one of the folks publicly claiming that the 2021 coaching search involved more folks declining than really happened. Specifically including Elliott.

https://atozsports.com/nashville/to...pyvYt9YTtcWF3-J9t1arL_IRTB19C0xxLKOlelg3sOcbw

That was back in 2021, a month and a half after Heupel was hired. In that article, Ragan wrote, "Danny White settled on Heupel after he failed to land Clemson offensive coordinator Tony Elliott."

So it's not just folks in vn.com, it's some of the local media who need a better handle on how well Dan White handled it all, too.

 

[McDad]

Agreed.

Interestingly, though, the online reporter Zach Ragan, who is most definitely a friend of the Vols program, is one of the folks publicly claiming that the 2021 coaching search involved more folks declining than really happened. Specifically including Elliott.

https://atozsports.com/nashville/to...pyvYt9YTtcWF3-J9t1arL_IRTB19C0xxLKOlelg3sOcbw

That was back in 2021, a month and a half after Heupel was hired. In that article, Ragan wrote, "Danny White settled on Heupel after he failed to land Clemson offensive coordinator Tony Elliott."

So it's not just folks in vn.com, it's some of the local media who need a better handle on how well Dan White handled it all, too.

Were you aware of that article and that author's opinion before you found it to add to our discussion?

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Were you aware of that article and that author's opinion before you found it to add to our discussion?

I was aware of that article at the time it was published, so it definitely formed an element of my current understanding of where the community is on the Heupel hire.

But I had totally forgotten about it in the years since.

I was reminded of it just moments ago while reading a necro'd thread revived by folks who are also taking part in THIS thread. Heh.

Go Vols!

Here's the resurrected other thread: Elliott on not taking UT job.

 

[cherokeeeVOL]

I just want gameday to be here already. Wish it was this Saturday instead of the following!

 

[GiveHim6InSC]

Is anyone claiming the DW coaching search wasn't professional and competent?

Tigernet

 

[vavolfan6]

That's not at all how I remember it.

I remember Dan White spending the first three and a half days as AD pushing James Franklin. Meanwhile, he put feelers out to a few other candidates, Elliott included. But the job offer was only ever on the table to Franklin during that period. Keep in mind, you can't offer two people the same job.

Toward the end of those 3 1/2 days, White came to a realization that the best candidate for the position was the fella he'd just left at UCF. And he immediately switched his focus to Josh Heupel.

Two days after that, Heupel was in Tennessee being announced as the Vols' new head football coach.

Elliott was never Tennessee's top candidate. He was one of White's afterthoughts, a plan B or plan C at best. And it never advanced to White making a job offer.

Go Vols!

I remember Franklin being in the picture, but he was more of a wishful target. I thought it was mostly assumed Franklin was just hearing us out and using us for a pay raise at Penn State. He was never leaving, especially considering the state of affairs after the Pruitt era.


But I specifically remember hearing that Elliot was going to have a 2nd interview where he was going to be offered the job. But decided not to pursue the position anymore on his own accord. That is when Danny White went after Huepel.

Of course it turned out well for us, but it was somewhat perceived that Huepel was just a fallback option/bridge guy after being rejected.

 

[Enki_Amenra]

Only in the strict sense of "offer" = "contract being put on the table for a fella to sign."

Make no mistake: Dan White was pushing hard to get James Franklin for a few days. If at any point Franklin had said, 'yep, okay, I'm in," Dan would've had a contract on the table within the hour. Heck, he probably had a boilerplate of one, ready to be marked up and fine-tuned, in his pocket or briefcase.

But sure, you (and Dan) are technically right, no official offer was made until the job was offered to Heupel.

Either way, we all know Franklin was our first top candidate, then Josh became top choice after it became clear Franklin wasn't biting.

Go Vols!

How do we all know this? What I do know, it was not nearly as far along as the media hyped it up to be. They took it from AD White gauging his interest to blowing it up as being in the final steps of negotiations. In reality, it never got past arranging an initial interview. Believe it or not, Heupel was always #1 on the list. Others were talked to as a process to see if there was a better candidate, due diligence as well as tempering any backlash from hiring the coach from his former university.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

I remember Franklin being in the picture, but he was more of a wishful target. I thought it was mostly assumed Franklin was just hearing us out and using us for a pay raise at Penn State. He was never leaving, especially considering the state of affairs after the Pruitt era.


But I specifically remember hearing that Elliot was going to have a 2nd interview where he was going to be offered the job. But decided not to pursue the position anymore on his own accord. That is when Danny White went after Huepel.

Of course it turned out well for us, but it was somewhat perceived that Huepel was just a fallback option/bridge guy after being rejected.

No sir, it was a serious, full-court press on James Franklin, for 3 1/2 days.

See, Dan White, like every AD worth his salt, has long been in the habit of keeping a short list of intriguing head coaches to go after should something happen to his current one.

And it's really kind of two different lists, combined. One, an ultimate-wish list, the other a more realistic version. But you keep both as an AD, because you never know what's gonna happen.

Like be hired at one of the blue blood programs. As Dan White was, on the 21st of January, 2021.

So he had James Franklin on his wish list already. And now that he was at a P5 program, he could swing for the fences. And that's what he did.

For 3 1/2 days.

At some point, White became aware that Franklin wasn't leaving Penn State. He needed to shift targets. And he already had feelers out with a few other coaches (including Elliott).

But you know who is never on the AD's list? The AD's current coach. For obvious reasons.

So the epiphany came to Dan: forget my wish list, the one guy who isn't on it is the perfect fit.

And that's when he shifted from Franklin to Heupel.

The rest is history.

Elliott was always only a plan B, or C, or D, or however low he was on Dan White's list. He got a phone call gauging interest. That was it.

Everything else you read or heard was folks like Zach Ragan, and even Elliott himself, over-inflating Elliott's role in that coaching search.

 

[allen phillips]

There is nothing in the quote where he says he was offered. He could be saving face. He could also be honest about how he approached the possibility of the job.

well, it is just like any other argument, you pick who you want to believe. no one will ever know what was was said.