Afghanistan Speech

#1
volinbham

volinbham

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#1
Shock of shock we got the false choice strawman again:

Some would have us retreat and become completely isolationist; some would have us over extended and involve ourselves everywhere. We need a more centered approach.
 
#3
#3
Until you stop dropping bombs on Monday and use the same planes to drop relief efforts on Tuesday, you're not being effective. I'm not for us becoming a bunch of "baby killers", but if you're at war, you're at war.

There are no rules of war despite the arguments to the contrary.
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#4
#4
punkcat said:
Should've nuked em and been done with it.
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No.


TXVOL07 said:
Until you stop dropping bombs on Monday and use the same planes to drop relief efforts on Tuesday, you're not being effective. I'm not for us becoming a bunch of "baby killers", but if you're at war, you're at war.

There are no rules of war despite the arguments to the contrary.
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Click to expand...

Then if not becoming baby killers then what do you purpose?
 
#5
#5
How about figuring out what the hell we're doing there in the first place? We engage in the longest military operation in US history with a massive groundforce, but we wound up getting target numero uno with some crafty CIA work, a few informants and a B-f'n-A SOCOM unit... In an entirely different country.
 
#8
#8
The war on terrorism is skewed. Multiple countries, multiple entities, multiple targets. My point is that if you find yourself declaring "war" on a country, there's no need in holding back. We approach these situations now with a very "PC" mind frame and frankly, it only lengthens the conflict, increases the loss of life, and devastates a reputation of us being "conscience" as to the overall effects. We didn't do that historically, but yet we now face graver danger than ever before.

A standard could be set, however diplacy gets in the way. I contend, that given the circstances regarding these types of situations, overwhelming displays of force would lessen the actions alltogether.

You may see it another way.
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#9
#9
I'm torn on the issue. I'm highly skeptical that we can make a difference but of all the voices in the debate I have the most respect for Patraeus'.

I really hate these 1/2 arse approaches. The troop draw down is primarily political. Let's either get out or finish the job.
 
#10
#10
milohimself said:
How about figuring out what the hell we're doing there in the first place? We engage in the longest military operation in US history with a massive groundforce, but we wound up getting target numero uno with some crafty CIA work, a few informants and a B-f'n-A SOCOM unit... In an entirely different country.
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this.
 
#11
#11
volinbham said:
I really hate these 1/2 arse approaches. The troop draw down is primarily political. Let's either get out or finish the job.
Click to expand...

So if we stay, we could spend trillions of dollars over the span of decades on a rebuilding project even though we have severe financial issues of our own, all in the hopes of establishing a friendly government in a hostile region that could wind up being overthrown, ooooorrr...

Bring the troops home.

Choices...
 
#12
#12
milohimself said:
So if we stay, we could spend trillions of dollars over the span of decades on a rebuilding project even though we have severe financial issues of our own, all in the hopes of establishing a friendly government in a hostile region that could wind up being overthrown, ooooorrr...

Bring the troops home.

Choices...
Click to expand...

I don't think the first option is under consideration - I'd say 2 more years is more likely (at elevated troop levels) and nowhere near trillions - couple hundred million is more like it.

Still.
 
#13
#13
It wasn't handled well to begin with. It hasn't been since the late 60's.

We'll be there forever. It's the way it goes now.
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#14
#14
I also respect Patraeus greatly, you can give him any foreign relations-related task and he can tell you the best way to go about it. I do buy his exit strategy as the best option for trying to let the new Afghan gov't survive.

But I don't buy the long-term survival of the Afghan gov't in general...
 
#15
#15
Why would you? Its the flavor of the month there. I'm not indicating we should "take over" but those people are unstable. Wreck it, reduce/ eliminate the threat, and be done with it.
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#16
#16
There is no "eliminate the threat." It's like playing whack-a-mole. As long as we are present in the ME and/or allies with Israel, we will be targeted. There is no offensive game plan.
 
#17
#17
But there damn sure needs to be a defensive game plan, that doesn't include "rebuilding the infrastructure" in the aftermath. Charity starts at home.
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#18
#18
And Israel needs to be given the green light to do as they choose and be warned not to f around with us. The oil can be debated over coffee or coors light later down the road. F the UN.

Those losers are in it for the funds, not diplomacy.

I'd put Mexico on notice while I was at it.
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#20
#20
We were a super power. Do you get that? We were what everyone wanted to be. Our buck is less valuable than a lot of dollars and its because they all view us in a new light. A weaker light at that.

I'm sick and tired of us being so apethetic to everyone when the majority of third world countries think that destroying Americans is some sort of standard for excellence. F all that. I'm no about dropping a bombs and making the globe a virtual Wyoming, but I'd damn sureakr my point known. F around with these United States, and you'll get what's coming to you ten fold.
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#22
#22
milohimself said:
How about figuring out what the hell we're doing there in the first place? We engage in the longest military operation in US history with a massive groundforce, but we wound up getting target numero uno with some crafty CIA work, a few informants and a B-f'n-A SOCOM unit... In an entirely different country.
Click to expand...

Yep.
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#23
#23
TXVOL07 said:
We were a super power. Do you get that? We were what everyone wanted to be. Our buck is less valuable than a lot of dollars and its because they all view us in a new light. A weaker light at that.

I'm sick and tired of us being so apethetic to everyone when the majority of third world countries think that destroying Americans is some sort of standard for excellence. F all that. I'm no about dropping a bombs and making the globe a virtual Wyoming, but I'd damn sureakr my point known. F around with these United States, and you'll get what's coming to you ten fold.
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Click to expand...

The value of our dollar has to do with many things, what other people think of us ins't one of them.

I'm fine with action against anyone who makes a serious attempt at killing US citizens. Bin Laden caught a bullet between the eyes. I don't see what that has to do with dropping nukes or turning Israel loose on the ME.
 
#24
#24
We haven't committed to win a war 100% since WWII. As a result, we have had questionable results from the proceeding military endeavors. If you go to war, you have to be willing to go all out in order to win. If you are not willing to do that, it's best to stay home. This is not an indictment of the greatest fighting force on the planet or the troops. They do an awesome job while handcuffed. It's the idiot politicians who THINK they know what's best that screw stuff up by trying to insulate themselves and just being generally spineless. Partial war makes as much sense as partial circumcision. Either go all the way or just forget it.
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#25
#25
Would love to see Israel allowed 2 free weeks to do whatever it wants.
 
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