Afghanistan Speech

#26
#26
JayVols said:
We haven't committed to win a war 100% since WWII. As a result, we have had questionable results from the proceeding military endeavors. If you go to war, you have to be willing to go all out in order to win. If you are not willing to do that, it's best to stay home. This is not an indictment of the greatest fighting force on the planet or the troops. They do an awesome job while handcuffed. It's the idiot politicians who THINK they know what's best that screw stuff up by trying to insulate themselves and just being generally spineless. Partial war makes as much sense as partial circumcision. Either go all the way or just forget it.
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Very true.
 
#27
#27
JayVols said:
We haven't committed to win a war 100% since WWII. As a result, we have had questionable results from the proceeding military endeavors. If you go to war, you have to be willing to go all out in order to win. If you are not willing to do that, it's best to stay home. This is not an indictment of the greatest fighting force on the planet or the troops. They do an awesome job while handcuffed. It's the idiot politicians who THINK they know what's best that screw stuff up by trying to insulate themselves and just being generally spineless. Partial war makes as much sense as partial circumcision. Either go all the way or just forget it.
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All I want from anyone on this board is a clear cut strategy or plan on what you want to do. You say we need to go "All the way" well what is "all the way". Fire bombing cities like we did in WWII, using nerve gas on cities or going house to house and killing anyone that resists. I'm not putting words in anyones mouths or trolling, I just want an honest opinion.
 
#28
#28
mreed90 said:
All I want from anyone on this board is a clear cut strategy or plan on what you want to do. You say we need to go "All the way" well what is "all the way". Fire bombing cities like we did in WWII, using nerve gas on cities or going house to house and killing anyone that resists. I'm not putting words in anyones mouths or trolling, I just want an honest opinion.
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My first answer would be to commit enough troops at the start to totally take control of the country without having 'surges' to bail us out. The assessment that we could defeat AND SECURE vast areas of land in Iraq and Afghanistan with the force strength advocated in these wars is just idiotic. Send in enough to completely lock down the country instead of this piecemeal stuff. If you are scared to death larger force size will equate to unacceptable casualties or unacceptable costs, you don't need to go to war. Fighting a war 'on the cheap' like Rumsfeld did in Iraq and Afghanistan and McNamara advocated at the onset in Vietnam ends up costing more in lives and money and lasting longer. War is a nasty serious business and shouldn't be entered into lightly.

I don't advocate wiping out civilians, but if your main strategy is to prevent civilian deaths, stay home. If the price one is willing to pay to win is too high, don't make the decision to go to war.
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#29
#29
milohimself said:
How about figuring out what the hell we're doing there in the first place? We engage in the longest military operation in US history with a massive groundforce, but we wound up getting target numero uno with some crafty CIA work, a few informants and a B-f'n-A SOCOM unit... In an entirely different country.
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Same thing we are doing in Iraq....waiting for the "nationals" to want freedom enough to get off their asses and work for it.
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#31
#31
NEOCON said:
Would love to see Israel allowed 2 free weeks to do whatever it wants.
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Sounds like a great plan.

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#32
#32
They'd only need 72 hours I'd bet. The following days would be mop up duty at best.
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#33
#33
volinbham said:
Shock of shock we got the false choice strawman again:

Some would have us retreat and become completely isolationist; some would have us over extended and involve ourselves everywhere. We need a more centered approach.
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How about non-interventionist but trade freely with everyone? No country will be dumb enough to make an enemy of the country that enriches them through free trade.
 
#34
#34
TXVOL07 said:
The war on terrorism is skewed. Multiple countries, multiple entities, multiple targets. My point is that if you find yourself declaring "war" on a country, there's no need in holding back. We approach these situations now with a very "PC" mind frame and frankly, it only lengthens the conflict, increases the loss of life, and devastates a reputation of us being "conscience" as to the overall effects. We didn't do that historically, but yet we now face graver danger than ever before.

A standard could be set, however diplacy gets in the way. I contend, that given the circstances regarding these types of situations, overwhelming displays of force would lessen the actions alltogether.

You may see it another way.
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But that's the problem. We haven't declared war.

The most conservative estimate of civilian deaths in Iraq is 101,000 (they only count documented deaths, most estimates are twice that, and some as high as 500K). I don't know what the death toll is in Afghanistan, but if we approach these wars as if we are doing some "good", especially Iraq, I'm not seeing it. Iraq just traded one mass murderer for another.

Iraq Body Count
 
#35
#35
When all else fails, blame Bush right?

How bout this scenario, you want to fight that war over here?
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#36
#36
TXVOL07 said:
When all else fails, blame Bush right?

How bout this scenario, you want to fight that war over here?
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What war are you talking about? Afghanistan or Iraq? I guess it doesn't matter because neither of those wars are happening here.
 
#37
#37
milohimself said:
You could start by having that Coors Light with gsvol first.
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Tx is right!

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I didn't ever drink Coors even when they were
sponsoring Sterling.

Obama is just trying to bolster his dying poll
numbers.

Everyone can see that except the Obama cultists.

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#38
#38
mreed90 said:
All I want from anyone on this board is a clear cut strategy or plan on what you want to do. You say we need to go "All the way" well what is "all the way". Fire bombing cities like we did in WWII, using nerve gas on cities or going house to house and killing anyone that resists. I'm not putting words in anyones mouths or trolling, I just want an honest opinion.
Click to expand...

"Winning" is not in the long term geo-political plan for the US. Our goal for the ME is destabilization, nothing more. Forget the rhetoric and look at the realities.
 
#39
#39
The reason we were able to go into Pakistan the way we did is because we were in Afghanistan, and having Iran on the squeeze doesn't hurt either.

Not saying I agree with how things are going, but there are strategic advantages.
 
#42
#42
IPorange said:
Sounds like a great plan.

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You post reminds me of a friend of mine who told
me a story about an encounter he had once while
visiting India.

He was strolling about, taking in the sights, dressed
in sandals, Levi cutoffs and an old denim shirt with
the sleeves cut short and came upon a snake charmer
who had a rather large crowd gathered who were
tossing coins to him for the entertainment he was
providing.

My friend watched for a while and then made some
joke about the whole scene which didn't go over
very well. He learned later that they took their
snake charming rather seriously, almost, maybe
even very seriously to be a religious experience.

Everyone turned to look at him with glares, so he
just walked away but several were following him
and so he walked a bit faster and so did they, some
were pulling some rather dangerous looking knives
from their garments.

Soon he was running as fast as he could, (he had
once been a pretty good cross country runner) and
the crowd was in hot pursuit.

He gained a bit of a lead but made a wrong turn and
ended up on a dead ends street.

He started walking back but the crowd appeared at
the open end of the alley and so he took a running
jump and scaled a wall which had broken glass embedded
on the top and dropped down into a wonderful garden.

There was a very nice building there with some very
disguished looking people sitting about and so he went
over and sat at an unoccupied table on the veranda so
as to catch his breath a bit, stem some of the bleeding
from being cut by the glass and very soon a quite
nicely dressed native with turban came over and asked
if he could be of assistance.

My friend said; "Yes, I'd like a Chevis on the rocks."

The guy left but didn't come back with the drink,
instead two large Sikhs came over, each one
grabbing one of his arms, walked him through the
lobby and unceremoniously tossed him down the
front steps.

He turned and looked and it was the British Embassy
or some British mens club.

He was just glad none of the mob was in sight.

I suppose the moral of the story is; "Don't make fun
of snake charmers."
 
#43
#43
gsvol said:
You post reminds me of a friend of mine who told
me a story about an encounter he had once while
visiting India.

He was strolling about, taking in the sights, dressed
in sandals, Levi cutoffs and an old denim shirt with
the sleeves cut short and came upon a snake charmer
who had a rather large crowd gathered who were
tossing coins to him for the entertainment he was
providing.

My friend watched for a while and then made some
joke about the whole scene which didn't go over
very well. He learned later that they took their
snake charming rather seriously, almost, maybe
even very seriously to be a religious experience.

Everyone turned to look at him with glares, so he
just walked away but several were following him
and so he walked a bit faster and so did they, some
were pulling some rather dangerous looking knives
from their garments.

Soon he was running as fast as he could, (he had
once been a pretty good cross country runner) and
the crowd was in hot pursuit.

He gained a bit of a lead but made a wrong turn and
ended up on a dead ends street.

He started walking back but the crowd appeared at
the open end of the alley and so he took a running
jump and scaled a wall which had broken glass embedded
on the top and dropped down into a wonderful garden.

There was a very nice building there with some very
disguished looking people sitting about and so he went
over and sat at an unoccupied table on the veranda so
as to catch his breath a bit, stem some of the bleeding
from being cut by the glass and very soon a quite
nicely dressed native with turban came over and asked
if he could be of assistance.

My friend said; "Yes, I'd like a Chevis on the rocks."

The guy left but didn't come back with the drink,
instead two large Sikhs came over, each one
grabbing one of his arms, walked him through the
lobby and unceremoniously tossed him down the
front steps.

He turned and looked and it was the British Embassy
or some British mens club.

He was just glad none of the mob was in sight.

I suppose the moral of the story is; "Don't make fun
of snake charmers."
Click to expand...


Is your friend's name Indiana Jones?
 
#45
#45
President Obama’s troop withdrawal plan was not
among the options presented to him by General David
Petraeus, according to testimony given under oath by
Marine Lt. General John Allen, seemingly contradicting statements made previously by a White House
official.

When asked by South Carolina Republican Sen. Lindsey
Graham during a hearing of the Senate Armed Services
Committee Tuesday whether the president’s withdrawal
plan was “one of the options presented to the president
by General Petraeus,” Allen responded,
“It was not.”

Read more at dailycaller.com ...

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The Afghan economy consists of 3% opium trade and
97% foreign aid.
 
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#48
#48
Holy hell. I guess I'm not surprised from a U.S. SOP standpoint but it's hard to spin this if you are the POTUS that is going to end wars and bring the troops home.
 
#49
#49
volinbham said:
Holy hell. I guess I'm not surprised from a U.S. SOP standpoint but it's hard to spin this if you are the POTUS that is going to end wars and bring the troops home.
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Agreed..This came to mind when I seen this. "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama campaign promise - October 27, 2007 :birgits_giggle:
 
#50
#50
good friend is going to afghan for 16 months.......he just got back from iraq a little over a year ago after being there 16 months.
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